Nurses no longer counted as a professional degree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Declaring nursing certifications to not be professional degrees is quite the move, right as the whole health care industry is moving to using NPs and RNs as primary care in place of actual MDs.

Because they can be paid less, see more patients, do fewer things overall and just farm out the referrals and renew prescriptions. They can't diagnose on the spot. I have excellent health insurance and haven't seen an actual MD in years now. I do technically have an MD upstream who gives the A-OK on prescription renewals but my NP visits are like 10 minutes long.

And I knew something was up when I presented a couple of years ago with a small but weird skin rash for which I got an in-network dermatologist referral. A quick google of images at home said it was absolutely 100% ringworm and I bought my own OTC meds, but that was amazing to me that the NP wouldn't even opine on what it "could" be. She actually said "I can't tell what that is today" ... I did not see the derm, I just cleared it up on my own.

In the US most MD physicians and dentists and oral surgeons are very well off. It's like you can see the Red Sea of wealth parting ... you guys up here, you guys down there.

When do dental hygienists start giving initial consultations?

That doesn't seem far away.

Paralegals are already doing that.

Now. My dentist moved to this model last year. I only see the dentist once a year for 3 minutes after the hygienist has performed the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No 18-year-old should ever dig themselves a $200k hole to become a nurse, or anything else for that matter.

- dad of ICU nurse

We are talking about post graduate degrees here.

I read it includes BSNs? Many hospitals, my own included, require bachelors at minimum for RNs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nurse here. The issue isn’t for a BSN, it’s for nurses pursing graduate school in order to become NPs, midwives, or CRNAs. And unless you have a well off family, it’s going to be hard to shell out money for grad school. This isn’t about going after college costs. It’s about limiting who can pursue advanced degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.

Pay them more. Let the market system work

Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."
-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum
http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf

LOL. And have CEOs take a pay cut or god forbid, pay a bit more in taxes?!?!?

Right? This current stage of capitalism will have us tipping our nurses any day now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.

Pay them more. Let the market system work

Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."
-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum
http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf

Would love to, tell hospital administration. But also be realistic. I worked for a nonprofit urban hospital with a high medicaid/medicate population and operating profit of like three percent. Nurses are the largest dept with thousands of employees and biggest budget.

DP to add, given the size of the nursing dept, even if you cut the admin salaries in half, it would be a drop in the bucket when spread across the entire nursing staff.

RN here. It’s not just the pay, it’s the conditions. I work PACU now, which is chill compared to most units. And I work in a good hospital that has safe patient ratios. But that is not always the case. In fact, it’s probably the exception not the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nurse here. The issue isn’t for a BSN, it’s for nurses pursing graduate school in order to become NPs, midwives, or CRNAs. And unless you have a well off family, it’s going to be hard to shell out money for grad school. This isn’t about going after college costs. It’s about limiting who can pursue advanced degrees.

I am actually worried about the 200,000 cap on doctors. Totally limiting who can pursue advanced degrees. why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nurse here. The issue isn’t for a BSN, it’s for nurses pursing graduate school in order to become NPs, midwives, or CRNAs. And unless you have a well off family, it’s going to be hard to shell out money for grad school. This isn’t about going after college costs. It’s about limiting who can pursue advanced degrees.

I am actually worried about the 200,000 cap on doctors. Totally limiting who can pursue advanced degrees. why?

PP here. Agreed. Most people cannot pay for an advanced degree without loans. I really think they only want the wealthy to pursue higher education. Yes college costs are absurd and AI might transform the work landscape. But the sudden shift to “why bother going to college” and now this—-I think they want people to be uneducated. Not that they will stop sending their kids to college.

[Anonymous]

Professional requires 4 year degree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nurse here. The issue isn’t for a BSN, it’s for nurses pursing graduate school in order to become NPs, midwives, or CRNAs. And unless you have a well off family, it’s going to be hard to shell out money for grad school. This isn’t about going after college costs. It’s about limiting who can pursue advanced degrees.

I am actually worried about the 200,000 cap on doctors. Totally limiting who can pursue advanced degrees. why?

PP here. Agreed. Most people cannot pay for an advanced degree without loans. I really think they only want the wealthy to pursue higher education. Yes college costs are absurd and AI might transform the work landscape. But the sudden shift to “why bother going to college” and now this—-I think they want people to be uneducated. Not that they will stop sending their kids to college.

What's crazy is that they will open the floodgates to foreign doctors coming to the US to work once the hospital system CEOs start howling. All these doctors educated at a fraction of the price of US medical schools.

But surgeons will be a bunch of native born rich kids whose parents paid full freight for their med school tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nurse here. The issue isn’t for a BSN, it’s for nurses pursing graduate school in order to become NPs, midwives, or CRNAs. And unless you have a well off family, it’s going to be hard to shell out money for grad school. This isn’t about going after college costs. It’s about limiting who can pursue advanced degrees.

I am actually worried about the 200,000 cap on doctors. Totally limiting who can pursue advanced degrees. why?

PP here. Agreed. Most people cannot pay for an advanced degree without loans. I really think they only want the wealthy to pursue higher education. Yes college costs are absurd and AI might transform the work landscape. But the sudden shift to “why bother going to college” and now this—-I think they want people to be uneducated. Not that they will stop sending their kids to college.

What's crazy is that they will open the floodgates to foreign doctors coming to the US to work once the hospital system CEOs start howling. All these doctors educated at a fraction of the price of US medical schools.

But surgeons will be a bunch of native born rich kids whose parents paid full freight for their med school tuition.

Which is probably a feature for those supporting this change. Their kids get to be surgeons and expensive specialists and concierge doctors, while the rest of us go to foreign doctors brought in at low pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No 18-year-old should ever dig themselves a $200k hole to become a nurse, or anything else for that matter.

- dad of ICU nurse

We are talking about post graduate degrees here.

I read it includes BSNs? Many hospitals, my own included, require bachelors at minimum for RNs

Wow, then it’s even worse.
I don’t know much about this but are BSN program student loans different from other undergraduate student loans? I know there are additional costs but does a typical BSN cost a lot more than a traditional BS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not just nurses!

“This meant that physician assistants, nurse practitioners, physical therapists and audiologist were excluded from the list.”

Crazy. So are they now labeled as trades?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nurse here. The issue isn’t for a BSN, it’s for nurses pursing graduate school in order to become NPs, midwives, or CRNAs. And unless you have a well off family, it’s going to be hard to shell out money for grad school. This isn’t about going after college costs. It’s about limiting who can pursue advanced degrees.

I am actually worried about the 200,000 cap on doctors. Totally limiting who can pursue advanced degrees. why?

To keep poor and middle class poor and middle class. It will stop social mobility which is a threat to their all white male dominated society fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long will it take to recover from this madness?

A long long time.

Guess we will let "capitalism work" and see how many billionaires step up to pay the tuition of nursing students.

They will not. More likely, they will import nurses from Caribbean and the Philippines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long will it take to recover from this madness?

A long long time.

Guess we will let "capitalism work" and see how many billionaires step up to pay the tuition of nursing students.

They will not. More likely, they will import nurses from Caribbean and the Philippines.

We already do this. We already struggle extensively with staffing nursing units, particularly med surg which is brutal.