Including young adult not on good terms with in family vacation

[Anonymous]

They'll grow out of this immature phase and eventually realize how patient you've been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you know why they dropped out of college?

They can’t choose a major they are interested in and “doesn’t like school”. They did poorly the first year and then dropped several classes the second year.

[Anonymous]

Of course he doesn’t get to go, given his behavior. Sounds like he is manipulating you. Don’t fall for it. His actions have consequences.

[Anonymous]

Don't let their behavior get to you and don't respond with similar behavior. Its possible their depression, ADHD, drugs or understanding of being a failure is behind this defiance to show or feel that they have some control over their life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know why they dropped out of college?

They can’t choose a major they are interested in and “doesn’t like school”. They did poorly the first year and then dropped several classes the second year.

Its okay, they aren't dead. They can go to community college or trade school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They'll grow out of this immature phase and eventually realize how patient you've been.

18:38, I may have to screenshot this for reminders on tough days. I sure hope so. It is a long road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know why they dropped out of college?

They can’t choose a major they are interested in and “doesn’t like school”. They did poorly the first year and then dropped several classes the second year.

It’s okay, they aren't dead. They can go to community college or trade school.

Yep. They will figure it out (or they won’t). I’ve accepted that. Was just answering the question.
- op

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Of course it is. Please be kind. We have tried and tried and tried and gotten no where. I am comfortable with how I’ve handled this situation - it sucks but I can’t change this child’s course until they are ready.
I’m only asking because I am conflicted on this issue. Of course my gut says include everyone but at some point I also need to protect my own self and other kids. I’m asking how to set boundaries so they don’t ruin other people’s family time.

Therapists can't do anything if there is actually a psychiatric and/or learning disorders that are undiagnosed and untreated, OP. Did you have them evaluated at some point as a child? It's very common for people with ADHD, anxiety, depression, or for example dyslexia, to feel "less than". I have a friend couple who ignored all the warnings from teachers about their kid's reading issues, and then were surprised when at 16, she asked for an evaluation herself. It turns out she has dyslexia and ADHD. She is not going to college. It's too late to turn things around. You can bet they're kicking themselves.

To your other point about their sibling relationships, perhaps you can survey your kids and relatives who will be attending and ask whether it's OK that this young person come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course he doesn’t get to go, given his behavior. Sounds like he is manipulating you. Don’t fall for it. His actions have consequences.

Plus, to add, you are teaching the younger kids that he is more important than they are, since he can act anyway they want, and they have to suffer. Maybe he is modeling for them that they should act that way, too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Of course it is. Please be kind. We have tried and tried and tried and gotten no where. I am comfortable with how I’ve handled this situation - it sucks but I can’t change this child’s course until they are ready.
I’m only asking because I am conflicted on this issue. Of course my gut says include everyone but at some point I also need to protect my own self and other kids. I’m asking how to set boundaries so they don’t ruin other people’s family time.

Therapists can't do anything if there is actually a psychiatric and/or learning disorders that are undiagnosed and untreated, OP. Did you have them evaluated at some point as a child? It's very common for people with ADHD, anxiety, depression, or for example dyslexia, to feel "less than". I have a friend couple who ignored all the warnings from teachers about their kid's reading issues, and then were surprised when at 16, she asked for an evaluation herself. It turns out she has dyslexia and ADHD. She is not going to college. It's too late to turn things around. You can bet they're kicking themselves.

To your other point about their sibling relationships, perhaps you can survey your kids and relatives who will be attending and ask whether it's OK that this young person come.

Yes, of course we have. All it resulted in was a general “adjustment disorder” diagnosis. I feel like everyone is pro-therapy now but honestly it hasn’t gotten us much improvement after years…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I would cancel vacation instead of choosing to blacklist one of my children.

I agree with this. I don't think you should let bullying of siblings (or unkind comments/meanspirited behavior) go unaddressed, but I do think young adults are essentially still children (developmentally) and need a lot of support. I would not enjoy the dynamics you are describing but would do my best to signal to our family that loyalty and sticking with each other is necessary and beneficial to our family overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Of course it is. Please be kind. We have tried and tried and tried and gotten no where. I am comfortable with how I’ve handled this situation - it sucks but I can’t change this child’s course until they are ready.
I’m only asking because I am conflicted on this issue. Of course my gut says include everyone but at some point I also need to protect my own self and other kids. I’m asking how to set boundaries so they don’t ruin other people’s family time.

Therapists can't do anything if there is actually a psychiatric and/or learning disorders that are undiagnosed and untreated, OP. Did you have them evaluated at some point as a child? It's very common for people with ADHD, anxiety, depression, or for example dyslexia, to feel "less than". I have a friend couple who ignored all the warnings from teachers about their kid's reading issues, and then were surprised when at 16, she asked for an evaluation herself. It turns out she has dyslexia and ADHD. She is not going to college. It's too late to turn things around. You can bet they're kicking themselves.

To your other point about their sibling relationships, perhaps you can survey your kids and relatives who will be attending and ask whether it's OK that this young person come.

Yes, of course we have. All it resulted in was a general “adjustment disorder” diagnosis. I feel like everyone is pro-therapy now but honestly it hasn’t gotten us much improvement after years…

That's one of the iffiest disorders of the DMV-V, and only given if there's evidence of a major stressor, kind of like a temporary form of PTSD. Symptoms are not supposed to last. Did they have a major stressor?

Also, please don't confuse therapists and psychologists. The former cannot conduct evaluations, the latter are trained to conduct evaluations. Different trainings, different disciplines.

[Anonymous]

You sound like a awful parent who created a scapegoat and then wonders why they feel alienated.

You don't like them, they know. They want lobe and acceptance more than a vacation. If you can't give then what they need stop stringing them along and don't invite them. They hold hope that you will somehow change but emotionally they protect themselves "I'm only here for the gifts" translates to "I'm hoping to have some connection and feel loved and validated by my family". I know you cannot hear the translation because you created the toxic dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what matters more is the actual rift and reasons why. Do they feel lesser than the other kids in your eyes ? Because if so the sane route is to get some distance and the behavior is understandable. What discussion has occurred with them about how they feel?

We don’t actually know why. We have sent them to therapist after therapist. They don’t want to be in college and dropped out. Some (fairly minor) charges from traffic courts. They probably do feel lesser than the older siblings who are successful in college. They tend to just not respond when we try to discuss things.

Is it not bothering you, upsetting you beyond figuring out logistics?

Of course it is. Please be kind. We have tried and tried and tried and gotten no where. I am comfortable with how I’ve handled this situation - it sucks but I can’t change this child’s course until they are ready.
I’m only asking because I am conflicted on this issue. Of course my gut says include everyone but at some point I also need to protect my own self and other kids. I’m asking how to set boundaries so they don’t ruin other people’s family time.

Therapists can't do anything if there is actually a psychiatric and/or learning disorders that are undiagnosed and untreated, OP. Did you have them evaluated at some point as a child? It's very common for people with ADHD, anxiety, depression, or for example dyslexia, to feel "less than". I have a friend couple who ignored all the warnings from teachers about their kid's reading issues, and then were surprised when at 16, she asked for an evaluation herself. It turns out she has dyslexia and ADHD. She is not going to college. It's too late to turn things around. You can bet they're kicking themselves.

To your other point about their sibling relationships, perhaps you can survey your kids and relatives who will be attending and ask whether it's OK that this young person come.

Yes, of course we have. All it resulted in was a general “adjustment disorder” diagnosis. I feel like everyone is pro-therapy now but honestly it hasn’t gotten us much improvement after years…

That's one of the iffiest disorders of the DMV-V, and only given if there's evidence of a major stressor, kind of like a temporary form of PTSD. Symptoms are not supposed to last. Did they have a major stressor?

Also, please don't confuse therapists and psychologists. The former cannot conduct evaluations, the latter are trained to conduct evaluations. Different trainings, different disciplines.

Both terrible and better done with a machine AI bot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have experience with this as the kid who was left out.

If you leave them out and your other children are invited, there are ramifications. From there on out, they are correct to be bitter about you.

What is their responsibility to be respectful? Is it ok to announce you only came on the trip because “it’s free”, etc?

Can you not see that as a self preservation measure? They aren't just coming because it's free. It's WORK to be around you. You make their life miserable.