if you're a "no divorce expect with abuse / cheating" person - what would you do in this situation

[Anonymous]

I would separate and say: I have raised these issues, we have tried marriage counseling, I am not living a life I want to be living with a partner, I am open to the idea that you haven't understood how serious I am about that, but I am serious and I need to separate from you because of that. I hope we can work it out but the ball is in your court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do your think your kids want him around? I wanted my abusive drunkard father to go away and never come back. He was abusive towards my mother, not us, but it was very hard to watch. We get along fine now that he lives alone, but there was no reason for him to be around when I was a kid. I begged my mom to move away from him. I didn't care where I lived, but I wanted the two separately.
Even if he goes for 50%, he will give that up in no time.

This is a very fair question. As a kid, I wished my mom would have left my dad. It didn't happen until I was in high school, and by then, I had lost a lot of respect for my mother. She should have left long before that.

I don't know - I wrestle with this. Its clear at least one of them loves him and can get wild fun with him in a way he can't with me. I think my other may actually be more on edge around him but has had times they were closer. I don't know if staying together so they can get the good and largely be shielded from the bad (eg he's "overwhelmed" so I just whisk the kids away and dad disappears to bedroom versus the kids being subjected dad's tantrum) is better than either having some shared custody with no shielding or no relationship with him at all (again, I don't know which way DH would go in a divorce. I don't think being upset about child support would factor into it and i'd waive it if that was the case. we have enough savings and i have enough earning power i'd be fine)

[Anonymous]

He contributes, makes more, works more, but refuses to enter into concrete agreements with you to precisely define his contributions and you think he’s the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He contributes, makes more, works more, but refuses to enter into concrete agreements with you to precisely define his contributions and you think he’s the problem?

well yes - when he gets roughly 30 hours of leisure time a week while i'm drowning working from 6am - 830pm 7 days a week between our kids, job and home and doing all overnight wake ups (because he "can't cope" with a night of poor sleep but i'm supposed to cope with years of it) and he has no interest in trying to solve that in any way and plays video games on his phone while watching me struggling and saying its because of his mental health while handling his hobbies and job just fine.....he's a major factor of the problem

at this point i'd be ok with him saying "I can parent for 3 hours each weekend day from 10-1 and need the other 12 hours for leisure time on sat / sun" or "i can't cope with the kids but will handle meals on weekends even if its takeout" or even "i'll find the housekeeper to do my laundry" or "i won't take the adhd parenting class but i'll talk to you about what you learned for 30 minutes without having a big reaction". I'm not asking for even workload or close to it (i gave up on that long ago), I'm asking for some degree of dependable and partnership in meeting our family's needs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He contributes, makes more, works more, but refuses to enter into concrete agreements with you to precisely define his contributions and you think he’s the problem?

also he does more hours of paid work and makes about 25% more (we both make good salaries). I scaled back because if I wanted a parent to cover anything for our kids regularly it had to come from me. I do more hours of work by far unless you don't consider taking care of a 3 and 5 year old "work". My day starts at 6am playing with them, getting them dressed and fed, lunches packed, me dresses, kitchen picked up, and out the door. Unless he schedules an early call, his starts at 730am rolling out of bed, getting coffee and starting to work at 8. But I guess the 2 hours I already put in before 8 don't count as work because its not my paid work that i also start at 8?

[Anonymous]

Can you outsource a ton of things? It seems to me that a benefit to remaining married is that you have access to his paycheck. So use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much do you guys make? My DH is helpful but very busy with work (and it's usually from home, so I know it's actual work). I hire out a lot of help, from chef-prepared weekly meals that I have to heat up to grocery delivery, to all of the house cleaning and laundry other than DH and my laundry, and I have an after-school nanny/driver who helps me juggle shuttling the kids to their activities and with other small household tasks. It's still a lot of work to manage the help on top of a job, and I'm still the default parent if someone gets sick, but it's better than the situation you describe. And at least your DH makes more than you - that should help with some of your resentment.

We do hire out a lot and it definitely helps - my rage would be through the roof if not. But I only want to co-parent with a nanny so much, its not just the physical labor - its that any parent time the kids get has to come from me while he plays video games or watches football for hours on the weekends, that his unable or unwilling to talk through what to do about our kids adhd diagnosis and unwilling to participate in a parenting class to learn strategies to manage it because he's so "overwhelmed", that I have no dependable back-up partner if I'm feeling really sick one day and just need someone else to do bedtime etc. I think the core of it is that I feel like I'm raising our kids entirely on my own without a dependable partner for any aspect of it other than paying the bills....which is a real and important thing but not the only thing kids need. And also that he hides behind mental health as an excuse when he does things like leave wet towels on my side of the bed or dirty laundry all over our bedroom which is also my office! (he has his own office in our house...i cant imagine what he'd do if i walked into it and left my trash and laundry around it)

Can you work out of the house at all?

I love working from home and can get a lot done like laundry, cleaning, etc. in little bursts throughout the day so I don't want to make your situation worse, but could you get really good cleaners and have them come every week or even twice a week and you could work elsewhere and come home to a clean house?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you outsource a ton of things? It seems to me that a benefit to remaining married is that you have access to his paycheck. So use it.

This. Get a nanny (or two) to help out so you can have down time. It’s really OK.

I know it sucks, OP. And I know you’re doing it all. And it is completely unfair. But based on what you have written, divorcing and coparenting with this man will be a nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you outsource a ton of things? It seems to me that a benefit to remaining married is that you have access to his paycheck. So use it.

This. Get a nanny (or two) to help out so you can have down time. It’s really OK.

I know it sucks, OP. And I know you’re doing it all. And it is completely unfair. But based on what you have written, divorcing and coparenting with this man will be a nightmare.

I keep coming back to that - it makes me sick to think what I put up with (the lashing out when he's angry, the picking up after another adult, the having my "partner" sit around and not lift a finger to help his family while I struggle to meet everyone's needs) but I think the uncertainty of what he'd do in divorce and the potential impact on the kids is a huge huge risk. I really wish I could just emotionally except the situation any not carry around so much anger about it in the moment when i'm trying to calm 2 kids and make dinner while he sits there, or i'm getting up at 6 for the millionth weekend morning while he gets to sleep in 2 weekend mornings every single weekend, or while i'm picking up his laundry all over our room so I can have a clean tidy background. A therapist once said "you can't force yourself to accept things that are unacceptable" but the potential divorce outcomes also feel unacceptable so i've got to find a way to make peace with one of the options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you outsource a ton of things? It seems to me that a benefit to remaining married is that you have access to his paycheck. So use it.

This. Get a nanny (or two) to help out so you can have down time. It’s really OK.

I know it sucks, OP. And I know you’re doing it all. And it is completely unfair. But based on what you have written, divorcing and coparenting with this man will be a nightmare.

I keep coming back to that - it makes me sick to think what I put up with (the lashing out when he's angry, the picking up after another adult, the having my "partner" sit around and not lift a finger to help his family while I struggle to meet everyone's needs) but I think the uncertainty of what he'd do in divorce and the potential impact on the kids is a huge huge risk. I really wish I could just emotionally except the situation any not carry around so much anger about it in the moment when i'm trying to calm 2 kids and make dinner while he sits there, or i'm getting up at 6 for the millionth weekend morning while he gets to sleep in 2 weekend mornings every single weekend, or while i'm picking up his laundry all over our room so I can have a clean tidy background. A therapist once said "you can't force yourself to accept things that are unacceptable" but the potential divorce outcomes also feel unacceptable so i've got to find a way to make peace with one of the options

Well, hiring help and trying to go that route is easier to undo than getting a divorce (not that I'm advocating you to stay married to this guy). So maybe try that and see how it works?

I don't understand the PP who accepts that this is how her husband is and makes time for them to have fun together. Personally, I would have too much resentment and could not stand to be around someone like that, but everyone is different.

Divorce is expensive, so I'd say hire out absolutely everything that you can (focus first on all the non-kid stuff like cleaning, laundry, gardening, groceries, cooking, etc.) and see it that helps at all. Is it annoying to pay someone to pick up your husband's dirty clothes and wash them? Absolutely (and I'd think you'd have to pay them pretty well...I've always had cleaners but don't ask them to touch dirty laundry), but it may help you to not have to do it.

Can you work anywhere but the bedroom? That seems like an odd set up unless you have a big room with a desk, etc. Maybe working in the dining room would be better because he won't leave his dirty laundry there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do your think your kids want him around? I wanted my abusive drunkard father to go away and never come back. He was abusive towards my mother, not us, but it was very hard to watch. We get along fine now that he lives alone, but there was no reason for him to be around when I was a kid. I begged my mom to move away from him. I didn't care where I lived, but I wanted the two separately.
Even if he goes for 50%, he will give that up in no time.

This is a very fair question. As a kid, I wished my mom would have left my dad. It didn't happen until I was in high school, and by then, I had lost a lot of respect for my mother. She should have left long before that.

I don't know - I wrestle with this. Its clear at least one of them loves him and can get wild fun with him in a way he can't with me. I think my other may actually be more on edge around him but has had times they were closer. I don't know if staying together so they can get the good and largely be shielded from the bad (eg he's "overwhelmed" so I just whisk the kids away and dad disappears to bedroom versus the kids being subjected dad's tantrum) is better than either having some shared custody with no shielding or no relationship with him at all (again, I don't know which way DH would go in a divorce. I don't think being upset about child support would factor into it and i'd waive it if that was the case. we have enough savings and i have enough earning power i'd be fine)

I'm the person you quoted. I get this. I loved my dad; my dad was the disciplinarian but also the "fun" parent. He coached our sports; he bought extravagant Christmas presents for us; he took us fishing and camping, etc. But he was awful to my mom. I still lost respect for her putting up with his bs. I wanted her to be strong and think about us kids and what we were witnessing. Your kids are young so probably not there yet, but something to think about. Bottom line, I wanted my mom and dad to both be happy, and I felt like they would be if they were apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do your think your kids want him around? I wanted my abusive drunkard father to go away and never come back. He was abusive towards my mother, not us, but it was very hard to watch. We get along fine now that he lives alone, but there was no reason for him to be around when I was a kid. I begged my mom to move away from him. I didn't care where I lived, but I wanted the two separately.
Even if he goes for 50%, he will give that up in no time.

This is a very fair question. As a kid, I wished my mom would have left my dad. It didn't happen until I was in high school, and by then, I had lost a lot of respect for my mother. She should have left long before that.

I don't know - I wrestle with this. Its clear at least one of them loves him and can get wild fun with him in a way he can't with me. I think my other may actually be more on edge around him but has had times they were closer. I don't know if staying together so they can get the good and largely be shielded from the bad (eg he's "overwhelmed" so I just whisk the kids away and dad disappears to bedroom versus the kids being subjected dad's tantrum) is better than either having some shared custody with no shielding or no relationship with him at all (again, I don't know which way DH would go in a divorce. I don't think being upset about child support would factor into it and i'd waive it if that was the case. we have enough savings and i have enough earning power i'd be fine)

I'm the person you quoted. I get this. I loved my dad; my dad was the disciplinarian but also the "fun" parent. He coached our sports; he bought extravagant Christmas presents for us; he took us fishing and camping, etc. But he was awful to my mom. I still lost respect for her putting up with his bs. I wanted her to be strong and think about us kids and what we were witnessing. Your kids are young so probably not there yet, but something to think about. Bottom line, I wanted my mom and dad to both be happy, and I felt like they would be if they were apart.

It sounds like your dad was a great dad and a bad husband overall (i think? i'd say mistreating your coparent different impacts the "great" dad - but could overall cope with being a dad and managing the kids). My husband can't handle the kids - some people say "oh they suddenly can when they have to!" but its not can he get the kids to school on time, its can he not scream at them and lock a sick child in their room when he's overwhelmed and spiraling. Or when he's in a more manic phase and does unsafe things like makes absolutely giant fires in our fireplace and falls asleep on the couch - who keeps the kids safe when the embers pop and land on our rug and need to be stomped on (which has happened and is just one example of the unsafe things he's done). Of course i worry that the kids will wonder why I put up with this or "allowed" him to do certain things, but I also worry so much about what the consequences will be for them if he does want some custody and they don't have another adult there (doesn't have to be me!) to just make sure their basic physical and emotional safety needs are met.

You say your dad was a drunkard - what was it like when you had to manage that on your own with no other adult able to help you?

[Anonymous]

my guess is he played a lot of video games and watched a lot of football while you were dating.

[Anonymous]

You are modeling something right now by staying with the likes of him.

I say document any habits/symptoms that would put your children at risk, and if it is bad enough, use that to argue primary custody. Soon enough, they will have some say.

Is living in a dysfunctional home half time better than full time? Is living with one mentally ill parent and one miserable parent a healthy environment for them to grow up in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you outsource a ton of things? It seems to me that a benefit to remaining married is that you have access to his paycheck. So use it.

This. Get a nanny (or two) to help out so you can have down time. It’s really OK.

I know it sucks, OP. And I know you’re doing it all. And it is completely unfair. But based on what you have written, divorcing and coparenting with this man will be a nightmare.

I keep coming back to that - it makes me sick to think what I put up with (the lashing out when he's angry, the picking up after another adult, the having my "partner" sit around and not lift a finger to help his family while I struggle to meet everyone's needs) but I think the uncertainty of what he'd do in divorce and the potential impact on the kids is a huge huge risk. I really wish I could just emotionally except the situation any not carry around so much anger about it in the moment when i'm trying to calm 2 kids and make dinner while he sits there, or i'm getting up at 6 for the millionth weekend morning while he gets to sleep in 2 weekend mornings every single weekend, or while i'm picking up his laundry all over our room so I can have a clean tidy background. A therapist once said "you can't force yourself to accept things that are unacceptable" but the potential divorce outcomes also feel unacceptable so i've got to find a way to make peace with one of the options

I know. Your husband is an asshat. He might be a narcissist but I’m not a mental health provider. And it’s not fair, and you don’t deserve this. You deserve a partner who pulls his own weight. You deserve downtime.

But it sounds like this is somewhat manageable during the limited amount of time he is around.

Your kids will get older and more independent. They will sleep through the night soon. You will be able to leave them alone together watching TV or playing while you make dinner soon. There will be drop-off activities. Things get less hands-on. And then they become teenagers, and you become the uber driver.

When I was first divorcing, my lawyer told me “bad dads take custody from good moms”. Maybe I missed it, but I don’t believe you have written “but he’s a great dad!” or similar.