if you're a "no divorce expect with abuse / cheating" person - what would you do in this situation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do your think your kids want him around? I wanted my abusive drunkard father to go away and never come back. He was abusive towards my mother, not us, but it was very hard to watch. We get along fine now that he lives alone, but there was no reason for him to be around when I was a kid. I begged my mom to move away from him. I didn't care where I lived, but I wanted the two separately.
Even if he goes for 50%, he will give that up in no time.

This is a very fair question. As a kid, I wished my mom would have left my dad. It didn't happen until I was in high school, and by then, I had lost a lot of respect for my mother. She should have left long before that.

I don't know - I wrestle with this. Its clear at least one of them loves him and can get wild fun with him in a way he can't with me. I think my other may actually be more on edge around him but has had times they were closer. I don't know if staying together so they can get the good and largely be shielded from the bad (eg he's "overwhelmed" so I just whisk the kids away and dad disappears to bedroom versus the kids being subjected dad's tantrum) is better than either having some shared custody with no shielding or no relationship with him at all (again, I don't know which way DH would go in a divorce. I don't think being upset about child support would factor into it and i'd waive it if that was the case. we have enough savings and i have enough earning power i'd be fine)

I'm the person you quoted. I get this. I loved my dad; my dad was the disciplinarian but also the "fun" parent. He coached our sports; he bought extravagant Christmas presents for us; he took us fishing and camping, etc. But he was awful to my mom. I still lost respect for her putting up with his bs. I wanted her to be strong and think about us kids and what we were witnessing. Your kids are young so probably not there yet, but something to think about. Bottom line, I wanted my mom and dad to both be happy, and I felt like they would be if they were apart.

It sounds like your dad was a great dad and a bad husband overall (i think? i'd say mistreating your coparent different impacts the "great" dad - but could overall cope with being a dad and managing the kids). My husband can't handle the kids - some people say "oh they suddenly can when they have to!" but its not can he get the kids to school on time, its can he not scream at them and lock a sick child in their room when he's overwhelmed and spiraling. Or when he's in a more manic phase and does unsafe things like makes absolutely giant fires in our fireplace and falls asleep on the couch - who keeps the kids safe when the embers pop and land on our rug and need to be stomped on (which has happened and is just one example of the unsafe things he's done). Of course i worry that the kids will wonder why I put up with this or "allowed" him to do certain things, but I also worry so much about what the consequences will be for them if he does want some custody and they don't have another adult there (doesn't have to be me!) to just make sure their basic physical and emotional safety needs are met.

You say your dad was a drunkard - what was it like when you had to manage that on your own with no other adult able to help you?

I'm actually the person who said, "This is a fair question," not the original person quoted who said their father was a drunkard. Just want to clarify that. Hopefully that person will come back and address your question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't understand the PP who accepts that this is how her husband is and makes time for them to have fun together. Personally, I would have too much resentment and could not stand to be around someone like that, but everyone is different.

I am the PP who accepts and has fun, but I think I have 2 very different things going for me: 1. Sleep, because my kids are older, and 2. My husband is a genuinely likable and nice guy. OP is dealing with BPD on top of young children, and BPD is absolutely awful to be around (my sister has it, really nasty tragic stuff). A third thing may be that I’m surrounded by very similar couples (Foreign Service) where we literally shape our lives around spouse’s jobs, so the expectations for a partner are already low. But would we last in the US in a normal context? Probably not, tbh. So much is just circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Can you ask his family for help? Both to encourage him to step up? and for his mom or dad or sibling to come and help out at your home for a week here or there?

It seems like he need some old fashioned guilt to be a better/decent man/father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you ask his family for help? Both to encourage him to step up? and for his mom or dad or sibling to come and help out at your home for a week here or there?

It seems like he need some old fashioned guilt to be a better/decent man/father.

I say this as a divorcing mom, whose husband's family took a very hands-off approach our whole marriage, and allowed/ignored him devolving into an immoral, useless, excuse of a man.

[Anonymous]

OP, you can view this as abuse .... said as a person who believes, that with kids, addiction, abuse or adultery = divorce. This qualifies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you ask his family for help? Both to encourage him to step up? and for his mom or dad or sibling to come and help out at your home for a week here or there?

It seems like he need some old fashioned guilt to be a better/decent man/father.

They will always view him as the struggling little boy who needs coddling. and they are very scared of his mental health issues and potential for self harm (there's been so much coddling and enabling I didn't know about for awhile.). They would come help me in a second (which is a mixed bag and I'd usually pick paid help because they come with a lot of "concern" and emotional neediness of their own with their worry about him) and have had the occasional "you need to get it together!" talks with him but those backfire because he feels attacked and lashes out (the bpd part...). I don't think these are controlled choices he's making that he could easily choose to do differently. He could of course seek much more intensive help and thats a choice not too, but I think he hates feeling out of control and unable to be the dad he imagined

[Anonymous]

Therapy doesn't fix BPD. Psychopharmacology does.
Get a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I think divorce is better the younger the kids are so I would do it now. You will never make it 15 more years like this. And “lashing out” is abusive.

Frankly, this isn’t like someone who is bedridden with MS if he manages to get up to work (and is on 80% travel!) and participate in hobbies. This is selective.

In another analogy, I have pretty crippling arthritis. It is bad enough that doctors have suggested I try to seek permanent disability. Guess what? I manage to work every day at a very high paying job. I avoid heavier tasks like cleaning the garage or laundry. I cannot get down on the floor and get up easily to play with a kid. But I still manage to cook meals, deal with dishes, put up Xmas decorations, etc. Do I leave some of the heavy lifting to my husband or someone I’ve outsourced to? Yes. But I fully participate in our life. Are there days when I say “I’m in too much pain, let’s order pizza?” Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you outsource a ton of things? It seems to me that a benefit to remaining married is that you have access to his paycheck. So use it.

Do you people who suggest this not realize the cost of such arrangements, all around??

Independence is much healthier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH has several mental health issues (some diagnosed, some suspected by therapist but not officially Dx (namely BPD) - he engages mildly in therapy but doesn't put in the actual work to change. Take as a given that the way he is no is the way he's going to be for the foreseeable and there is no "asking" or "insisting" on change. His mental health got much worse with kids (who are 3 and 5) - obviously there were flags but I was not knowingly signing up for this

DH will not take responsibility for ANYTHING domestic related (house or kids). Its not that he does nothing - some days he'll clean the whole kitchen or decide to take a kid to an activity - but its only on his terms. He would never follow through with an agreement to cook dinner every sat night or do monday school drop offs or regularly participate in bedtimes. He also leaves his trash and laundry around - he'd get it cleaned up eventually but I can't wait that long for it and it drives me crazy. I also don't want to role model that for our kids and have them also just leaving their trash and things around. When I push for things he either agrees and doesn't follow through or verbally lashes out using his mental health as a cover (eg "how can you expect me to care about my trash when i'm struggling to get out of bed some days"....but said on a day he's not in a deep depression struggling to get out of bed).

We both work - he works more and makes more than I do but I would fully support him changing careers / making less if he wanted (he does not want to). He doesn't work much on weekends and doesn't pick up his share then either.

I see my options as 1) fully capitulate and accept i'm responsible for 100% and even need to pick up after him if I don't want to live with his trash around and somehow make peace with that, 2) bang my head against the wall continually asking for changes i won't get, or 3) divorce. I do worry a lot about all scenarios of divorce in terms of the impact on the kids - if I thought he was a guy who would magically get it together when divorced and be able to safely care for kids that would be the obvious answer, but unfortunately I don't think that'd be the case. I could see him doing anything from fighting for 50% (even though he travels 80% and plays no dependable day to day role in their lives now) to walking away from them and basically never seeing them again - both would be horrible for the kids.

I hate the idea of divorce and putting my kids through that. I also hate them seeing this marriage and division of labor. I know many many would say just divorce, i'm specifically curious what though with a very high bar for divorce would do in this situation.

Option 1: Divorce

Option 2: Delegating chores to hired help and making life manageable so home environment is peaceful enough to raise kids in a two parent family. Yes, it would cost but cheaper and less traumatic than divorce. Less stress might help his mental health too and with time he might become a better partner and parent. Under 10 kids are a big burden on a marriage.

[Anonymous]

Heck by delegating chores to lower mental and physical stress, you too would be your better self as a person, as a partner and as a mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:" I could see him doing anything from fighting for 50% (even though he travels 80% and plays no dependable day to day role in their lives now) to walking away from them and basically never seeing them again - both would be horrible for the kids."

So he's barely in the kids life now. He does almost nothing with them, for them, or with you, or for you. How would he get 50% if he travels 80% of the time? It would be better for the kids if he saw them every other weekend but was ENGAGED, alert, happy, caring.

I had a husband with similar issues. I divorced. At first he didn’t want the kids at all, then he decided he wanted sole custody and took me back to court for years. He lost but it was hell. We always had joint decision making - common unless there’s abuse - and so every decision has been a nightmare.

Don’t divorce. Find work arounds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I could see him doing anything from fighting for 50% (even though he travels 80% and plays no dependable day to day role in their lives now) to walking away from them and basically never seeing them again - both would be horrible for the kids."

So he's barely in the kids life now. He does almost nothing with them, for them, or with you, or for you. How would he get 50% if he travels 80% of the time? It would be better for the kids if he saw them every other weekend but was ENGAGED, alert, happy, caring.

I had a husband with similar issues. I divorced. At first he didn’t want the kids at all, then he decided he wanted sole custody and took me back to court for years. He lost but it was hell. We always had joint decision making - common unless there’s abuse - and so every decision has been a nightmare.

Don’t divorce. Find work arounds

So if you could go back you’d tough it out? Anything you wish you’d done to try to make it less infuriating/ draining?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I could see him doing anything from fighting for 50% (even though he travels 80% and plays no dependable day to day role in their lives now) to walking away from them and basically never seeing them again - both would be horrible for the kids."

So he's barely in the kids life now. He does almost nothing with them, for them, or with you, or for you. How would he get 50% if he travels 80% of the time? It would be better for the kids if he saw them every other weekend but was ENGAGED, alert, happy, caring.

I had a husband with similar issues. I divorced. At first he didn’t want the kids at all, then he decided he wanted sole custody and took me back to court for years. He lost but it was hell. We always had joint decision making - common unless there’s abuse - and so every decision has been a nightmare.

Don’t divorce. Find work arounds

So if you could go back you’d tough it out? Anything you wish you’d done to try to make it less infuriating/ draining?

I would have just built my own life, friends, hobbies, etc. And hired lots of help

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change the illness from mental health to say something like MS. What would do if his illness physically prevented him from helping around the house or if he chose not to attend PT?

It’s not. Too many people with mental illness are simply malingering.

OP, I would try to hire help until you are ready to leave. It doesn’t sound like you want to spend the rest of your life with this person and I wouldn’t either.

When would you leave (I know thats kind of an impossible question to answer with so little information). I know in general divorce is better when kids are young - but I can't imagine leaving a 3 and 5 year old alone with him especially overnight when he has absolutely no patience. They may or may not be well cared for (depending on his mental state) and wouldn't be able to understand any sort of conversation about his mental health causing some behaviors versus it being their fault (like when he has mumbled things loud enough for them to hear that "this f-ing family is a miserable hell hole"). I do believe he WANTS to be a loving dad (versus just a raging a-hole) but is unable to be with his combo of mental illnesses and unwilling to do the work to get them under control enough that he can manage stressful situations with them.

As long as we are married, he's basically never alone with them. When I go out, I hire a sitter which i think he feels some shame about but doesn't fight. He can join in for pleasant moments and check out of the rest. The kids do love him and have fun with him but don't depend on him in any way.

I grew up with a father like this (probably worse) and wish my mother had left sooner. He did try somewhat for the 4 hours a month or whatever when he had visitation but by then it was too late.