82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is normal behavior, as aggravating as it is. And it's normal to have to wait for a crisis to force her to make some choices. It's okay. This is just how it goes. Deep breaths.

Do not burden yourself with the obligation to keep her really safe and well-managed. That just isn't realistic in your situation. Being in your 80s implies a certain level of vulnerability whether you're at home or in assisted living-- they each have their pros and cons. Say to yourself "I am caring for my mother to the best of my ability, and with respect for her autonomy. Bad things can happen in any setting. I am coping as best I can."

Meanwhile, you can get ready on your end. Take every opportunity to figure out where she banks and who her health care providers are-- I figured out my dad's accountant by offering to bring in his mail from the mailbox. Write down your notes. Identify some in-home care providers in her area that take Medicare so that you have a list when it's needed. See a pro for an explanation of Medicaid and how it works, because she'll probably need it eventually. Try to save up a little money and vacation time. You'll feel better if you're prepared.

I am the PP who went through this with two parents, and this is great advice. If I could go back in time, this is what I would have done: be proactive, gather documentation, consult an eldercare lawyer, identify agencies in her area that can provide nurses or in-home health care and have a list ready to go in a crisis.

[Anonymous]

This is the typical boomer attitude. Awful, she needs to hand over everything and go away instead of being a burden.

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that your mother will only be eligible for Medicaid after spending down her assets if her income (pension + SS) is less than the limit in your state. In Virginia in 2023, the income was $2,742/month. It sounds like your mom may be above that with her pension. There might be ways around it if her income is higher, but you would need to consult an attorney to figure that out.

My MIL is on long term care Medicaid and it was actually not very difficult for her to qualify at all. Her case was pretty cut and dried, though. She was discharged to a nursing home after a hospital stay. She had just SS, little savings, and did not own a house. We spent down the savings with a funeral trust and through private paying at the nursing home for maybe one month, and by that point she was below the $2k asset limit and qualified. So this is to give hope to people with simple Medicaid cases. If you truly have nothing Medicaid does not have to be hard to qualify for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the typical boomer attitude. Awful, she needs to hand over everything and go away instead of being a burden.

The OP's mom is post-war, not boomer. It's not a boomer thing, it's an old person thing. We need to accept that most very old people are not mentally capable of end of life planning. Back in the old days, we didn't move out of town when we grew up, and they lived at home with us, and we took care of them as they got older.

[Anonymous]

Her executive function is going, OP.
She literally cannot do most of what you’re asking, and when she starts thinking about it, it’s overwhelming and she stops. Not just emotionally, but in terms of basic execution: she sits down to look at a form. The pencil is upstairs. She gets it. Sits back down. Then she realizes she needs to find old paperwork to fill out this form (bank, tax, etc). She’s already braved the stairs once, and she can’t remember where the old paperwork is.

So she thinks: “I’ll do it tomorrow”.

You’re not helping.

You have to take several long weekends, live in her house, fill out everything for her, explain like she’s 7, and she signs. It depends how stubborn she is, and how persuasive you are and how you can physically help her remember where she put her info.

So first you have to prepare your spiel, the right papers, and maybe consult a lawyer. You present 2-3 viable options to your mother, she picks and signs. Hopefully!

I know it’s a slog. My erstwhile highly-organized father is regressing and I will have to do something similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind that your mother will only be eligible for Medicaid after spending down her assets if her income (pension + SS) is less than the limit in your state. In Virginia in 2023, the income was $2,742/month. It sounds like your mom may be above that with her pension. There might be ways around it if her income is higher, but you would need to consult an attorney to figure that out.

My MIL is on long term care Medicaid and it was actually not very difficult for her to qualify at all. Her case was pretty cut and dried, though. She was discharged to a nursing home after a hospital stay. She had just SS, little savings, and did not own a house. We spent down the savings with a funeral trust and through private paying at the nursing home for maybe one month, and by that point she was below the $2k asset limit and qualified. So this is to give hope to people with simple Medicaid cases. If you truly have nothing Medicaid does not have to be hard to qualify for.

Did you have any trouble getting the paperwork done? It was really hard for us even though it should have been a cut and dried case. We did we had a hard time accessing pension info, life insurance policies to prove no cash value, etc. We also needed to spending down assets and had a hard time because of lack of access to the bank accounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her executive function is going, OP.
She literally cannot do most of what you’re asking, and when she starts thinking about it, it’s overwhelming and she stops. Not just emotionally, but in terms of basic execution: she sits down to look at a form. The pencil is upstairs. She gets it. Sits back down. Then she realizes she needs to find old paperwork to fill out this form (bank, tax, etc). She’s already braved the stairs once, and she can’t remember where the old paperwork is.

So she thinks: “I’ll do it tomorrow”.

This is so true. My husband was so angry at his parents for the mess they left us, but reframing the situation this way is crucial. They did not screw us over on purpose. They literally could not handle complex planning because of their mental state. All this planning is honestly challenging for me at my age and executive functioning, and I'm a lot younger.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I am reading every post, and there's a lot of very, very wise counsel here. Thank you all.

There are actually some very nice subsidized/ affordable senior housing communities near her, for which I think she might qualify. The units are similar to her condo (independent apartment, full kitchen, new-ish construction)...but with 24-hour safety, transportation, optional activities, lower costs, basic accessibility features...and zero stairs. That's actually how I've tried to frame the conversation the last couple of go-rounds, eg: "hey, Mom, I think an option like this could help keep you independent longer than your current set-up, and for less money, too, but to get on a waitlist, we'd need to get a handle on your income..." But to move forward, I'd need to know more...and that's where we get stuck.

The tips about staying with her, and observing, and sleuthing -- and in the meantime gathering lists of agencies, etc. -- are really, really smart. Also, I have the name of eldercare attorney whom I think she would respond to. I'll reach out to them tomorrow, just to get the ball rolling.

Very relieved that the filial responsibility laws seem to be a non-issue, so I can worry about us separately from worrying about her. Still, I appreciate the nudge to get my own situation in order.

You all are lovely. The situation is frustrating, and pretty profoundly sad. But at the moment, I feel less alone, less blind, and less overwhelmed than I did this morning. I'm grateful.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible to sell her upstairs condo and buy one downstairs, preferably in your name so that she does not have assets in her name?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I appreciate all the responses, including the ones that don't see what the big deal is. It's certainly possible I'm conflating unrelated situations in a way that's unnecessary and unhelpful.

A genuine question: is no one here concerned about filial responsibility laws? The laws are on the books in Maryland, Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California, North Carolina, Massachusetts, Connecticut, etc....and legally obligate adult children to provide financial support for senior parents' care, even opening the door for separate households to be sued by care facilities for payment. They don't seem to be often enforced, but it does happen sometimes, and I can imagine it happening more as our senior population needs increasing care.

That said, I really appreciate the note about how Medicaid will kick in should the need arise, as well as the specific things that need to be addressed (HIPAA, financial/health power of attorney, etc.).

This is all new territory for us. Thanks for giving me a place to try to make sense of it.

They’re welcome to come try it but I consider the odds small enough that am not going to allow myself to be turned into my parents’ parent emotionally to avoid the threat of it.

You have said what you have to say here, OP. Your mom has answered. Your work is on acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom's situation is entirely hers. It is not problem unless you make it your problem. You have made your position known, now focus on yourself and your family. I cannot understand how any of this would possibly affect your children. You are not responsible for your mother's bills, regardless of what happens to her. You have to let her live with the consequences of the choices she makes. If she wishes to risk falling down the stairs at her own home, she may do that. For many, myself included, I would far rather die from falling down the stairs at the age of 82 then die a slow, lonely death in an old folks home.

You are beyond clueless.

No, I am 100% completely clued in. I have been there, done it. And am educated in elder care. It's people like you who treat elders like infants and believe they should be locked away, just so you don't have to "worry," while simultaneously playing the martyr. It's just not that hard. I have a recommendation for you and others here: https://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/

That's a big leap from spending years gently encouraging the elder to make some kind of a plan.

Your take works if the elder is going to handle those issues on their own without asking for urgent assistance. Will you? Will OP's mother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the typical boomer attitude. Awful, she needs to hand over everything and go away instead of being a burden.

Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand what the grandkids have to do with this. That was a weird comment.

She needs a financial power of attorney, HIPAA forms signed, and a health care power of attorney. A will doesn’t sound totally necessary on this scenario - intestate laws can handle this so while a will would be good, focus on the documents needed while she is living.

You need to know her health insurance info. It would also be helpful for you to know the name of her bank, mortgage company if any etc.

You can check to make sure she is keeping up with property tax payments but looking it up with the municipality.

Explain otherwise if she becomes incapacitated you will have to go to court to be appointed power of attorney and that is a hassle and expensive and how will her bills get paid in the meantime etc.

Again what do the grandkids have to do with this? Weird to make it about them.

Not weird at all and OP, having been there, please remember your kids ALWAYS come before your difficult elderly mother. You don't take from the needs of the younger generation to help someone in their 80s who refused to be proactive. People will wax poetic about how you are teaching your kids to love their elders and setting an example for how they care for you. We should advise our kids their kids needs will also always come before ours. There was a great quote someone shared on here once about how being a good ancestor is far more vital than being a good daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the typical boomer attitude. Awful, she needs to hand over everything and go away instead of being a burden.

she is not a boomer.

[Anonymous]

OP, you may need to give her a wake-up call by being less responsive. Her plan right now is for you to cater to her. Stop doing that and she may re-think.