82-year-old mom refuses to plan, share info, discuss

[Anonymous]

Don’t worry about filial responsibility laws. I think like one or two people have ever been prosecuted under these. Unless you have a lot of money or have benefited financially recently from your parent, they will never come after you.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have been there. This WILL affect you whether you like it or not. We have been through this nightmare and no matter how unpleasant it is to confront your mom, it is better than letting things get to the point where you have to step in and rescue her. People posting here do not understand how medicare works. it will not cover long term care facility should she need nursing home care. Do you have the time and resources to care for her in your own home? If not then be aware that nursing homes cost around 10K per month. Long term care medicaid (different from regular medicaid) is notoriously hard to get on, and there are endless waiting lists that can only be bypassed in an emergency situation, such as a hospitalization. Moreover, unless you have access to her accounts and power of attorney, you it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to even fill out an application.

At the very least, you must force the issue of a power of attorney. If she refuses to deal with the specifics now, at least you would be able to step in and take over for her should the need arise. It is 100% worth the money to hire an elder care attorney to draft an appropriate power of attorney document and have her sign it. You do all the arranging yourself in order to save yourself the bigger headache later. She is probably too overwhelmed to do anything like this for herself. Be as naggy and proactive as you need to in order to get this done. Do not urge her to do it because she is probably not psychologically capable of it. This is such a common problem with the elderly, so don't expect so much initiative from her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom's situation is entirely hers. It is not problem unless you make it your problem. You have made your position known, now focus on yourself and your family. I cannot understand how any of this would possibly affect your children. You are not responsible for your mother's bills, regardless of what happens to her. You have to let her live with the consequences of the choices she makes. If she wishes to risk falling down the stairs at her own home, she may do that. For many, myself included, I would far rather die from falling down the stairs at the age of 82 then die a slow, lonely death in an old folks home.

You are beyond clueless.

No, I am 100% completely clued in. I have been there, done it. And am educated in elder care. It's people like you who treat elders like infants and believe they should be locked away, just so you don't have to "worry," while simultaneously playing the martyr. It's just not that hard. I have a recommendation for you and others here: https://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have been there. This WILL affect you whether you like it or not. We have been through this nightmare and no matter how unpleasant it is to confront your mom, it is better than letting things get to the point where you have to step in and rescue her. People posting here do not understand how medicare works. it will not cover long term care facility should she need nursing home care. Do you have the time and resources to care for her in your own home? If not then be aware that nursing homes cost around 10K per month. Long term care medicaid (different from regular medicaid) is notoriously hard to get on, and there are endless waiting lists that can only be bypassed in an emergency situation, such as a hospitalization. Moreover, unless you have access to her accounts and power of attorney, you it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to even fill out an application.

At the very least, you must force the issue of a power of attorney. If she refuses to deal with the specifics now, at least you would be able to step in and take over for her should the need arise. It is 100% worth the money to hire an elder care attorney to draft an appropriate power of attorney document and have her sign it. You do all the arranging yourself in order to save yourself the bigger headache later. She is probably too overwhelmed to do anything like this for herself. Be as naggy and proactive as you need to in order to get this done. Do not urge her to do it because she is probably not psychologically capable of it. This is such a common problem with the elderly, so don't expect so much initiative from her.

Again, overreacting people like this are giving poor advice that will cost you. You do not need a lawyer to get power of attorney. And by the way, she clearly doesn't need it now, so you won't gain it if she doesn't want you to. So many people here who either haven't been through this or were able to force their parents to do what the children wanted.

[Anonymous]

Are you guys in the dc area? Depending on where you are, assisted living may be an option for her. She may not even be aware of her options.

Don’t borrow trouble on the filial responsibility laws. Those are not a realistic concern. You are embarking on a well-worn path. I suggest doing some research on housing options for her. At a minimum, selling the condo and downsizing to single-level living would be an improvement. There may be a 55+ community near her/you that could work.

[Anonymous]

She’s not going to do anything, so plan accordingly. You can only control yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have been there. This WILL affect you whether you like it or not. We have been through this nightmare and no matter how unpleasant it is to confront your mom, it is better than letting things get to the point where you have to step in and rescue her. People posting here do not understand how medicare works. it will not cover long term care facility should she need nursing home care. Do you have the time and resources to care for her in your own home? If not then be aware that nursing homes cost around 10K per month. Long term care medicaid (different from regular medicaid) is notoriously hard to get on, and there are endless waiting lists that can only be bypassed in an emergency situation, such as a hospitalization. Moreover, unless you have access to her accounts and power of attorney, you it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to even fill out an application.

At the very least, you must force the issue of a power of attorney. If she refuses to deal with the specifics now, at least you would be able to step in and take over for her should the need arise. It is 100% worth the money to hire an elder care attorney to draft an appropriate power of attorney document and have her sign it. You do all the arranging yourself in order to save yourself the bigger headache later. She is probably too overwhelmed to do anything like this for herself. Be as naggy and proactive as you need to in order to get this done. Do not urge her to do it because she is probably not psychologically capable of it. This is such a common problem with the elderly, so don't expect so much initiative from her.

The “emergency situation” hospitalization is what will happen anyway. You have to get to a situation where they won’t discharge her back to her condo. Probably a fall or pneumonia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom's situation is entirely hers. It is not problem unless you make it your problem. You have made your position known, now focus on yourself and your family. I cannot understand how any of this would possibly affect your children. You are not responsible for your mother's bills, regardless of what happens to her. You have to let her live with the consequences of the choices she makes. If she wishes to risk falling down the stairs at her own home, she may do that. For many, myself included, I would far rather die from falling down the stairs at the age of 82 then die a slow, lonely death in an old folks home.

You are beyond clueless.

No, I am 100% completely clued in. I have been there, done it. And am educated in elder care. It's people like you who treat elders like infants and believe they should be locked away, just so you don't have to "worry," while simultaneously playing the martyr. It's just not that hard. I have a recommendation for you and others here: https://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/

It’s a nice idea that people will just live alone until they fall down the stairs and die, but OP is right to assume that it will probably be far, far more slow motion than that. It’s more likely that they’ll just slowly torture themselves and their adult children with a series of broken bones, poorly managed incontinence, hoarding/rodents/general chaos. Maybe some financial scams and/or abusive caregivers along the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have been there. This WILL affect you whether you like it or not. We have been through this nightmare and no matter how unpleasant it is to confront your mom, it is better than letting things get to the point where you have to step in and rescue her. People posting here do not understand how medicare works. it will not cover long term care facility should she need nursing home care. Do you have the time and resources to care for her in your own home? If not then be aware that nursing homes cost around 10K per month. Long term care medicaid (different from regular medicaid) is notoriously hard to get on, and there are endless waiting lists that can only be bypassed in an emergency situation, such as a hospitalization. Moreover, unless you have access to her accounts and power of attorney, you it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to even fill out an application.

At the very least, you must force the issue of a power of attorney. If she refuses to deal with the specifics now, at least you would be able to step in and take over for her should the need arise. It is 100% worth the money to hire an elder care attorney to draft an appropriate power of attorney document and have her sign it. You do all the arranging yourself in order to save yourself the bigger headache later. She is probably too overwhelmed to do anything like this for herself. Be as naggy and proactive as you need to in order to get this done. Do not urge her to do it because she is probably not psychologically capable of it. This is such a common problem with the elderly, so don't expect so much initiative from her.

The “emergency situation” hospitalization is what will happen anyway. You have to get to a situation where they won’t discharge her back to her condo. Probably a fall or pneumonia.

This is the key point, OP! Most situations with elderly parents end up with a crisis point that forces change. Maybe a fall, an illness - whatever. If she is unwilling to plan, accept that and be kind and set your boundaries. You have a moral obligation to help her make good choices when the inevitable happens, but IMHO, you don't have a moral obligation to bankrupt yourself and take money away from your daughter's insulin fund. You more is valuing freedom over safety, and that is her right. She is not your child. It is unfortunate that she is in complete denial, but it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

mom not "more"

[Anonymous]

OP, I agree with other posters that you should see a lawyer/financial planner that specializes in elder care law. The laws do change/evolve, so it helps to have a professional practicing in your mother's state.

Make the appointment and let your mother know that you're going so that you are better able to help her when she's ready. Letting her know ahead of time will, hopefully, prevent her from feeling like you've gone behind her back. And invite her to come. No matter how she reacts, just go and don't push her.

Best wishes, OP. This stuff isn't easy to navigate, especially because it becomes very emotional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mom's situation is entirely hers. It is not problem unless you make it your problem. You have made your position known, now focus on yourself and your family. I cannot understand how any of this would possibly affect your children. You are not responsible for your mother's bills, regardless of what happens to her. You have to let her live with the consequences of the choices she makes. If she wishes to risk falling down the stairs at her own home, she may do that. For many, myself included, I would far rather die from falling down the stairs at the age of 82 then die a slow, lonely death in an old folks home.

You are beyond clueless.

No, I am 100% completely clued in. I have been there, done it. And am educated in elder care. It's people like you who treat elders like infants and believe they should be locked away, just so you don't have to "worry," while simultaneously playing the martyr. It's just not that hard. I have a recommendation for you and others here: https://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/

It’s a nice idea that people will just live alone until they fall down the stairs and die, but OP is right to assume that it will probably be far, far more slow motion than that. It’s more likely that they’ll just slowly torture themselves and their adult children with a series of broken bones, poorly managed incontinence, hoarding/rodents/general chaos. Maybe some financial scams and/or abusive caregivers along the way.

I think op is understandably concerned, but I think she’s going about things the wrong way. She’d be better off expressing concern for her mom and exploring housing options that would improve her mom’s every day life than trying to guilt the mom into signing over her POA out of some loosely connected concern for the grandchildren’s healthcare.

Op should be having more reality-based thinking and conversations with her mom that are focused directly on her mom’s needs.

[Anonymous]

OP, this is normal behavior, as aggravating as it is. And it's normal to have to wait for a crisis to force her to make some choices. It's okay. This is just how it goes. Deep breaths.

Do not burden yourself with the obligation to keep her really safe and well-managed. That just isn't realistic in your situation. Being in your 80s implies a certain level of vulnerability whether you're at home or in assisted living-- they each have their pros and cons. Say to yourself "I am caring for my mother to the best of my ability, and with respect for her autonomy. Bad things can happen in any setting. I am coping as best I can."

Meanwhile, you can get ready on your end. Take every opportunity to figure out where she banks and who her health care providers are-- I figured out my dad's accountant by offering to bring in his mail from the mailbox. Write down your notes. Identify some in-home care providers in her area that take Medicare so that you have a list when it's needed. See a pro for an explanation of Medicaid and how it works, because she'll probably need it eventually. Try to save up a little money and vacation time. You'll feel better if you're prepared.

[Anonymous]

^this. np here. I vote this is the most helpful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have been there. This WILL affect you whether you like it or not. We have been through this nightmare and no matter how unpleasant it is to confront your mom, it is better than letting things get to the point where you have to step in and rescue her. People posting here do not understand how medicare works. it will not cover long term care facility should she need nursing home care. Do you have the time and resources to care for her in your own home? If not then be aware that nursing homes cost around 10K per month. Long term care medicaid (different from regular medicaid) is notoriously hard to get on, and there are endless waiting lists that can only be bypassed in an emergency situation, such as a hospitalization. Moreover, unless you have access to her accounts and power of attorney, you it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to even fill out an application.

At the very least, you must force the issue of a power of attorney. If she refuses to deal with the specifics now, at least you would be able to step in and take over for her should the need arise. It is 100% worth the money to hire an elder care attorney to draft an appropriate power of attorney document and have her sign it. You do all the arranging yourself in order to save yourself the bigger headache later. She is probably too overwhelmed to do anything like this for herself. Be as naggy and proactive as you need to in order to get this done. Do not urge her to do it because she is probably not psychologically capable of it. This is such a common problem with the elderly, so don't expect so much initiative from her.

Again, overreacting people like this are giving poor advice that will cost you. You do not need a lawyer to get power of attorney. And by the way, she clearly doesn't need it now, so you won't gain it if she doesn't want you to. So many people here who either haven't been through this or were able to force their parents to do what the children wanted.

You are dead wrong. I have actually been through this with not just one, but TWO ailing parents in much the same situation as OP's mother. One parent died in a lot of suffering. Not everyone is lucky enough to die quickly and peacefully at home in a fatal fall or a heart attack. Her suffering could have been prevented had she gotten the proper care she needed at the end of her life. She would have been able to receive such care had someone advised her instead of her living in denial until she was completely immobile and in excruciating pain.

Also, you do need a lawyer, and they are not that expensive. For my FIL, by the time we got to him to a hospital, he was not mentally competent. We had power of attorney form that we drafted off of the internet on one of those sites. Turned out we did not have the right wording in order to have the financial control we needed to get FIL on medicaid. The process turned out to be much more expensive and time consuming than if we had just consulted a knowledgable lawyer to begin with. It could have taken an hour and cost $500 rather than many thousands of dollars. There is also advice that an elder care lawyer can advise OP on that may help protect some of her mother's assets in case she does need to go on medicaid for nursing home care.

OP do yourself a favor and handle it with an eldercare expert or attorney. There is no point in being upset with your mom or expecting her to take care of these overwhelming details herself. There are so many elderly people in denial. I've started to think it's just a normal phase of life. Tell her you know it's difficult and overwhelming to plan these things, so you want to help her out and hire a lawyer for her.