Algebra in 7th v 8th

[Anonymous]

When my kid qualified for advanced math track in MS, I was unsure what to do. He'd consistently scored in 99th percentile on MAP in ES (our district's main criteria for advancement), but he certainly didn't love it so much he did a bunch of math outside of the school setting. Also, his es math wasn't particularly challenging, so it's not easy to determine how your kid will do until they are actually in the class.

We decided to have him placed on the advanced track since math was his favorite subject, we didn't want to close out the opportunity for MV Calc/LA as a senior should he want to pursue that. I will say up til this point it's been a good experience for him, though not all rosy.

Alg 1 was a breeze. He struggled a few units in geometry - first time he didn't make all As or Bs on every assessment, there was a C or 2 on some units - but he did make all As on report card. I don't think the struggle was necessarily a bad thing. Alg 2H was challenging but, again, he asked the teacher for clarification when he needed it and made all As in math last year. I think a few struggles in an advanced class are better than coasting through easier/non-challenging classes.

Also, his high school offers off ramps from the advanced track should it come to that. He's currently in pre-calc and he/we can assess whether he should continue next year with AP Calc BC > MV Calc/LA path or AP Calc AP > AP Stats.

If the kid has the drive, has demonstrated ability in math in the present, and there are off ramps available, why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my kid qualified for advanced math track in MS, I was unsure what to do. He'd consistently scored in 99th percentile on MAP in ES (our district's main criteria for advancement), but he certainly didn't love it so much he did a bunch of math outside of the school setting. Also, his es math wasn't particularly challenging, so it's not easy to determine how your kid will do until they are actually in the class.

We decided to have him placed on the advanced track since math was his favorite subject, we didn't want to close out the opportunity for MV Calc/LA as a senior should he want to pursue that. I will say up til this point it's been a good experience for him, though not all rosy.

Alg 1 was a breeze. He struggled a few units in geometry - first time he didn't make all As or Bs on every assessment, there was a C or 2 on some units - but he did make all As on report card. I don't think the struggle was necessarily a bad thing. Alg 2H was challenging but, again, he asked the teacher for clarification when he needed it and made all As in math last year. I think a few struggles in an advanced class are better than coasting through easier/non-challenging classes.

Also, his high school offers off ramps from the advanced track should it come to that. He's currently in pre-calc and he/we can assess whether he should continue next year with AP Calc BC > MV Calc/LA path or AP Calc AP > AP Stats.

If the kid has the drive, has demonstrated ability in math in the present, and there are off ramps available, why not?

Did your son find most in his class WERE doing outside math? Was he only one actually learning the material in his class for first time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

They were struggling with both the concepts and pace. Two ended up with Bs or lower, I believe.

Offer algebra in 7th to only the very most capable kids. Current eval metrics aren’t working. Raise the bar.

Do the kids that get Bs retake algebra? While a good grade, would someone doing accelerated math want only a A for their high school transcript?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

They were struggling with both the concepts and pace. Two ended up with Bs or lower, I believe.

Offer algebra in 7th to only the very most capable kids. Current eval metrics aren’t working. Raise the bar.

Do the kids that get Bs retake algebra? While a good grade, would someone doing accelerated math want only a A for their high school transcript?

They do not retake the class, they earned a B. In FCPS the parents can ask for the grade to be expunged and the child would continue on to Geometry. I suspect that a child earning a B in Algebra H in 7th grade would be able to move to Math 7 Honors and then take Algebra Honors in 8th grade. Kids can tell pretty early in the school year if the math is going to be very challenging, a series of C’s or B’s on the first set of quizzes and/or tests would be a sign to drop a level if you are worried about a grade less then an A on a report card.

There are also a good number of colleges who won’t look down on a B in Algebra Honors in 7th grade. A “B” is a solid grade and the grade is weighted so it is not going to destroy a GPA. If you are set on trying for an Ivy League or top 20 school then you need to weigh 6 years of HS math on a transcript with Bs and 4-5 years of HS math with an A.

[Anonymous]

Everyone at our MS expunges any grade that isn’t an A. You are foolish not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

They were struggling with both the concepts and pace. Two ended up with Bs or lower, I believe.

Offer algebra in 7th to only the very most capable kids. Current eval metrics aren’t working. Raise the bar.

Do the kids that get Bs retake algebra? While a good grade, would someone doing accelerated math want only a A for their high school transcript?

They do not retake the class, they earned a B. In FCPS the parents can ask for the grade to be expunged and the child would continue on to Geometry. I suspect that a child earning a B in Algebra H in 7th grade would be able to move to Math 7 Honors and then take Algebra Honors in 8th grade. Kids can tell pretty early in the school year if the math is going to be very challenging, a series of C’s or B’s on the first set of quizzes and/or tests would be a sign to drop a level if you are worried about a grade less then an A on a report card.

There are also a good number of colleges who won’t look down on a B in Algebra Honors in 7th grade. A “B” is a solid grade and the grade is weighted so it is not going to destroy a GPA. If you are set on trying for an Ivy League or top 20 school then you need to weigh 6 years of HS math on a transcript with Bs and 4-5 years of HS math with an A.

In the 10 minute of attention your application gets, they aren't "weighing" your middle school Algebra grade. They are looking at GPA and AP scores and 12th grade classes. Expungements MS grades that lower your GPA.
If you GPA is below 3.0 (so a B increases GPA), your GPA is already a lost cause, because no one cares if it is 2.95 or 2.98

[Anonymous]

My middle schooler has been taking high school math for 7-8th grade. We were told that while the actual classes and grades will be recorded/visible on their high school transcript for credit, the grade received does NOT go toward their high school GPA. Only classes taken in 9th grade on factor into high school GPA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone at our MS expunges any grade that isn’t an A. You are foolish not to.

What happens if they expunge the grade? Do they have to re-take the class or the grade is just not counted in GPA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

They were struggling with both the concepts and pace. Two ended up with Bs or lower, I believe.

Offer algebra in 7th to only the very most capable kids. Current eval metrics aren’t working. Raise the bar.

Do the kids that get Bs retake algebra? While a good grade, would someone doing accelerated math want only a A for their high school transcript?

They do not retake the class, they earned a B. In FCPS the parents can ask for the grade to be expunged and the child would continue on to Geometry. I suspect that a child earning a B in Algebra H in 7th grade would be able to move to Math 7 Honors and then take Algebra Honors in 8th grade. Kids can tell pretty early in the school year if the math is going to be very challenging, a series of C’s or B’s on the first set of quizzes and/or tests would be a sign to drop a level if you are worried about a grade less then an A on a report card.

There are also a good number of colleges who won’t look down on a B in Algebra Honors in 7th grade. A “B” is a solid grade and the grade is weighted so it is not going to destroy a GPA. If you are set on trying for an Ivy League or top 20 school then you need to weigh 6 years of HS math on a transcript with Bs and 4-5 years of HS math with an A.

In the 10 minute of attention your application gets, they aren't "weighing" your middle school Algebra grade. They are looking at GPA and AP scores and 12th grade classes. Expungements MS grades that lower your GPA.
If you GPA is below 3.0 (so a B increases GPA), your GPA is already a lost cause, because no one cares if it is 2.95 or 2.98

DS got a B+ in Algebra in 7th which is a 3.3 (3.8 weighted). Is this a grade to keep or will it weigh down his HS GPA? We have a few weeks to decide and I don't know who to ask about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone at our MS expunges any grade that isn’t an A. You are foolish not to.

What happens if they expunge the grade? Do they have to re-take the class or the grade is just not counted in GPA?

And assume as long as still take 4 math courses in HS can still get advanced diploma or must kids have algebra or geometry as grades on their HS to get that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone at our MS expunges any grade that isn’t an A. You are foolish not to.

What happens if they expunge the grade? Do they have to re-take the class or the grade is just not counted in GPA?

And assume as long as still take 4 math courses in HS can still get advanced diploma or must kids have algebra or geometry as grades on their HS to get that?

4 math credits, one of which is verified via SOL or equivalent. (I assume AP counts as verified too.)

26 credits total, so if yourstudent is trying to graduate without taking a full course of every year for 4 years, you might want the extra credit from middle school.

https://www.fcps.edu/graduation-requirements-and-course-planning/first-time-ninth-2018-19

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

They were struggling with both the concepts and pace. Two ended up with Bs or lower, I believe.

Offer algebra in 7th to only the very most capable kids. Current eval metrics aren’t working. Raise the bar.

Do the kids that get Bs retake algebra? While a good grade, would someone doing accelerated math want only a A for their high school transcript?

They do not retake the class, they earned a B. In FCPS the parents can ask for the grade to be expunged and the child would continue on to Geometry. I suspect that a child earning a B in Algebra H in 7th grade would be able to move to Math 7 Honors and then take Algebra Honors in 8th grade. Kids can tell pretty early in the school year if the math is going to be very challenging, a series of C’s or B’s on the first set of quizzes and/or tests would be a sign to drop a level if you are worried about a grade less then an A on a report card.

There are also a good number of colleges who won’t look down on a B in Algebra Honors in 7th grade. A “B” is a solid grade and the grade is weighted so it is not going to destroy a GPA. If you are set on trying for an Ivy League or top 20 school then you need to weigh 6 years of HS math on a transcript with Bs and 4-5 years of HS math with an A.

In the 10 minute of attention your application gets, they aren't "weighing" your middle school Algebra grade. They are looking at GPA and AP scores and 12th grade classes. Expungements MS grades that lower your GPA.
If you GPA is below 3.0 (so a B increases GPA), your GPA is already a lost cause, because no one cares if it is 2.95 or 2.98

DS got a B+ in Algebra in 7th which is a 3.3 (3.8 weighted). Is this a grade to keep or will it weigh down his HS GPA? We have a few weeks to decide and I don't know who to ask about this.

No one knows yours kid better than your family does.

If your kid beats a B+ average in HS, you want it expunged. If it's below, you want the grade.
If the average it's close to B+, the effect of one B+ grade is diminished so it doesn't really matter.

25 grades averaging 3.0 to 3.5, and 1 at 3.3, moves the GPA by approximately 0.01.

Similarly for weighted 3.5-4.0 average.

Doesn't look worth keeping to me.

Focus attention on beefing up Algebra skill, to get high grades in future courses.

Give your kid some algebra practice exploring scenarios :-)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

They were struggling with both the concepts and pace. Two ended up with Bs or lower, I believe.

Offer algebra in 7th to only the very most capable kids. Current eval metrics aren’t working. Raise the bar.

Do the kids that get Bs retake algebra? While a good grade, would someone doing accelerated math want only a A for their high school transcript?

They do not retake the class, they earned a B. In FCPS the parents can ask for the grade to be expunged and the child would continue on to Geometry. I suspect that a child earning a B in Algebra H in 7th grade would be able to move to Math 7 Honors and then take Algebra Honors in 8th grade. Kids can tell pretty early in the school year if the math is going to be very challenging, a series of C’s or B’s on the first set of quizzes and/or tests would be a sign to drop a level if you are worried about a grade less then an A on a report card.

There are also a good number of colleges who won’t look down on a B in Algebra Honors in 7th grade. A “B” is a solid grade and the grade is weighted so it is not going to destroy a GPA. If you are set on trying for an Ivy League or top 20 school then you need to weigh 6 years of HS math on a transcript with Bs and 4-5 years of HS math with an A.

In the 10 minute of attention your application gets, they aren't "weighing" your middle school Algebra grade. They are looking at GPA and AP scores and 12th grade classes. Expungements MS grades that lower your GPA.
If you GPA is below 3.0 (so a B increases GPA), your GPA is already a lost cause, because no one cares if it is 2.95 or 2.98

DS got a B+ in Algebra in 7th which is a 3.3 (3.8 weighted). Is this a grade to keep or will it weigh down his HS GPA? We have a few weeks to decide and I don't know who to ask about this.

No one knows yours kid better than your family does.

If your kid beats a B+ average in HS, you want it expunged. If it's below, you want the grade.
If the average it's close to B+, the effect of one B+ grade is diminished so it doesn't really matter.

25 grades averaging 3.0 to 3.5, and 1 at 3.3, moves the GPA by approximately 0.01.

Similarly for weighted 3.5-4.0 average.

Doesn't look worth keeping to me.

Focus attention on beefing up Algebra skill, to get high grades in future courses.

Give your kid some algebra practice exploring scenarios :-)

Thank you for this perspective. We had all expected, DS and DH and I, that DS would be an all-A student. I could make all sorts of excuses about 7th grade, such as missing several weeks of school due to illness, being slow to understand the retake policy, etc. Maybe he is or maybe he isn't but we could give him another chance to see if he is.

One more thing - expunging a grade would affect TJ changes, wouldn't it? Not sure if DS really wants to go or should go to TJ but he has mentioned it. He is eligible with the B+ grade but not sure if he would be without it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone at our MS expunges any grade that isn’t an A. You are foolish not to.

What happens if they expunge the grade? Do they have to re-take the class or the grade is just not counted in GPA?

And assume as long as still take 4 math courses in HS can still get advanced diploma or must kids have algebra or geometry as grades on their HS to get that?

4 math credits, one of which is verified via SOL or equivalent. (I assume AP counts as verified too.)

26 credits total, so if yourstudent is trying to graduate without taking a full course of every year for 4 years, you might want the extra credit from middle school.

https://www.fcps.edu/graduation-requirements-and-course-planning/first-time-ninth-2018-19

So if only SOLs in high school are algebra, geometry and algebra 2, then child will need to pass the algebra 2 SOL if expunge everything before b/c lose the SOL too if expunge grade (unless retake class to then allow retake of SOL). Is this correct read?

“… a verified credit is earned when a student passes a course and either the associated end-of-course SOL test”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone at our MS expunges any grade that isn’t an A. You are foolish not to.

What happens if they expunge the grade? Do they have to re-take the class or the grade is just not counted in GPA?

And assume as long as still take 4 math courses in HS can still get advanced diploma or must kids have algebra or geometry as grades on their HS to get that?

Any kid taking Algebra in 7th should be committed to taking Math through senior year. Otherwise what is even going on. My second one is waiting to take Algebra until 8th because she doesn’t love math as much as her sister and doesn’t want to have to go beyond Calc AB.