Algebra in 7th v 8th

[Anonymous]

Does your kid LOVE math? Does it come extremely easy to them? Are they gifted in other areas? Then do the most advanced track. Otherwise I recommend Algebra in 8th. High school math becomes extremely challenging and kids really must enjoy the process & work independently from parents. ie- no handholding from mom or dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid LOVE math? Does it come extremely easy to them? Are they gifted in other areas? Then do the most advanced track. Otherwise I recommend Algebra in 8th. High school math becomes extremely challenging and kids really must enjoy the process & work independently from parents. ie- no handholding from mom or dad.

right but he’s going to end up in HS math anyway …. at some point we have to face the challenge, why not now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid LOVE math? Does it come extremely easy to them? Are they gifted in other areas? Then do the most advanced track. Otherwise I recommend Algebra in 8th. High school math becomes extremely challenging and kids really must enjoy the process & work independently from parents. ie- no handholding from mom or dad.

right but he’s going to end up in HS math anyway …. at some point we have to face the challenge, why not now?

Because sometimes when a student is accelerated too fast, they will miss certain concepts and not realize they've been missed until much later. It's like when I see schools teach kids to memorize a bunch of tricks re: decimals or whatever so that they can speed through the unit, and the kids do that but never learn why the trick works. Then when they encounter a time when the trick doesn't work, they're in trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid LOVE math? Does it come extremely easy to them? Are they gifted in other areas? Then do the most advanced track. Otherwise I recommend Algebra in 8th. High school math becomes extremely challenging and kids really must enjoy the process & work independently from parents. ie- no handholding from mom or dad.

right but he’s going to end up in HS math anyway …. at some point we have to face the challenge, why not now?

Because sometimes when a student is accelerated too fast, they will miss certain concepts and not realize they've been missed until much later. It's like when I see schools teach kids to memorize a bunch of tricks re: decimals or whatever so that they can speed through the unit, and the kids do that but never learn why the trick works. Then when they encounter a time when the trick doesn't work, they're in trouble.

the thing is, I have little confidence the school is actually being that diligent about concepts. It would be one thing if people said there was some value in the kid just being a little older and more mature. but I think we’re going to be tutoring & reinforcing regardless.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t put a kid who is naturally not a hard worker in an accelerated class unless it was his passion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I think to actually compare you would need to compare only among kids who were eligible to take Algebra 1 in 7th --those who did and those who didn't. Otherwise, not surprising that kids who scored 93+ in math aptitude continue to do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should probably look long term. Algebra in 7th means Calculus in 11th. Which seems crazy to me but lots of top kids around here do that, with the intention of something even harder in 12th and top colleges/STEM majors in college in mind. Does that sound right to your family?
I personally think math concepts for a bright child track well with brain development when they take algebra in 8th and Calculus in 12th. But depends on your long term goals.

Doesn't seem crazy to me. AP Calc BC in 11th and AP stats in 12th seem very helpful to students for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid LOVE math? Does it come extremely easy to them? Are they gifted in other areas? Then do the most advanced track. Otherwise I recommend Algebra in 8th. High school math becomes extremely challenging and kids really must enjoy the process & work independently from parents. ie- no handholding from mom or dad.

Yes to all of this. They need to love math and want to works at it. I’m a HS math teacher and have 9th graders in H Alg II every year who don’t really want to be there. They come in looking scared when they see the huge older students and tell me that math is their least favorite subject but their parents made them take advanced classes in middle school. It’s different when they are a 9th grader sitting there who is easily grasping concepts and a hard worker who likes math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t put a kid who is naturally not a hard worker in an accelerated class unless it was his passion.

this seems a bit backwards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your kid LOVE math? Does it come extremely easy to them? Are they gifted in other areas? Then do the most advanced track. Otherwise I recommend Algebra in 8th. High school math becomes extremely challenging and kids really must enjoy the process & work independently from parents. ie- no handholding from mom or dad.

Yes to all of this. They need to love math and want to works at it. I’m a HS math teacher and have 9th graders in H Alg II every year who don’t really want to be there. They come in looking scared when they see the huge older students and tell me that math is their least favorite subject but their parents made them take advanced classes in middle school. It’s different when they are a 9th grader sitting there who is easily grasping concepts and a hard worker who likes math.

But what changes in one year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

[Anonymous]

We picked 8th even though the parental push at our school is 7th because Calc in 12 is fine with us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should probably look long term. Algebra in 7th means Calculus in 11th. Which seems crazy to me but lots of top kids around here do that, with the intention of something even harder in 12th and top colleges/STEM majors in college in mind. Does that sound right to your family?
I personally think math concepts for a bright child track well with brain development when they take algebra in 8th and Calculus in 12th. But depends on your long term goals.

Doesn't seem crazy to me. AP Calc BC in 11th and AP stats in 12th seem very helpful to students for college.

Can you expand on why AP Stats is helpful for college? Assuming student is going to a college that does not give credit for AP classes (looks at them for admission but doesn't count toward college credit itself). I am in the same position as OP; 6th grade DD just started pre-Algebra this year and will be in Algebra in 7th if she continues on this course. She's good at math but doesn't love it. She loves ELA/writing/theater/improv/singing. Older DS took Algebra in 8th, as did DH and I. I took AP Calc BC in 12th. Except for appearing in a category of the "highest performing math kids" is Stats really helpful? I'm truly curious to know bc it could be a factor in the decision to keep on the track for DD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who did Algebra in 6th and a child who did Algebra in 7th.

The benefit of a fast track is:

1. Avoiding boredom and being appropriately challenged.
2. Getting noticed positively for college admissions (although these days a lot of students take Algebra 1 in 7th, so in itself that's not newsworthy).

The disadvantages are:

1. Getting into difficulties later in the more advanced math classes. Age-old question: is it better to have straight As in an easy class, or Bs in a hard class?

It's not always possible to know in advance how your child will do. I'm the sort of person who is willing to try, and then support my kids with tutors, or teacher them myself at home, or, if need be, take a slower track (although that never happened).

There is no evidence for the claim that you "get into difficulties later" - it's politically motivated misinformation that was spread by, for instance, proponents of VMPI.

The longitudinal numbers show a different picture: students who are screened to take Algebra I earlier do better in it and they do better later. (Run SOL statistics, for instance.)

I know multiple kids who were identified as gifted, scored well, and accelerated in math by two years. They ended up taking a less adv math (not honors) because they were struggling. It made them hate math. Too many kids are being pushed to do algebra in 7th IMHO. There should be stricter standards for accelerating that much.

Nah, they should start Algebra earlier but offer a more applied/business/engineering but still honors version.

They were struggling with both the concepts and pace. Two ended up with Bs or lower, I believe.

Offer algebra in 7th to only the very most capable kids. Current eval metrics aren’t working. Raise the bar.