Men want to care, but . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a man takes on the responsibilities of childcare or housework or scheduling but does a bad or halfass job of it because he does not try to learn the best practices by reading or networking or even just asking someone who knows more than him then that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. His ego should not be enough to get him a pass on these responsibilities.

I can't even imagine that a man would allow his female partner to change the oil in the car without having learned how first, or try to build a shed in the backyard just by using her supposedly superior intellect only as a guide. I can think of many other examples but the point is nobody should be allowed to screw things up just in the interest of not micromanaging their efforts. Especially not the care of children!

Your scenarios are terrible because a man would never let a woman do those things because he wants them done a certain way. And he wouldn't complain because you didn't do 50% of it either. He would just get it done and not go on Facebook or DCUM and complain about "emotional labor"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a man takes on the responsibilities of childcare or housework or scheduling but does a bad or halfass job of it because he does not try to learn the best practices by reading or networking or even just asking someone who knows more than him then that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. His ego should not be enough to get him a pass on these responsibilities.

I can't even imagine that a man would allow his female partner to change the oil in the car without having learned how first, or try to build a shed in the backyard just by using her supposedly superior intellect only as a guide. I can think of many other examples but the point is nobody should be allowed to screw things up just in the interest of not micromanaging their efforts. Especially not the care of children!

People learn by doing. Not by reading a book or blog or forum or asking a friend.

If people do not do, they don't learn.

I assume that you are a single parent?

You assume wrong.

You seem to have missed the point entirely. Men and women are certainly capable of doing tasks that were assumed to be the province of the other gender in the past but should not now be. However, if either refuses to do a little research and learning first and just assumes they can figure anything out on their own they ought not be allowed to be in charge of certain things, especially childcare. Of course it's important to actually do things, that is obvious, but it is equally important to prepare yourself first. If you are not willing to read a book, ask a friend, or try to arm yourself with information first then your ego is preventing you from doing the best job, no matter what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

For starters, because we have a child together.

Must be tough to live with a guy like that. Why not just divorce?

dp.. divorce is not always the answer to everything.

if you don't like your spouse that much, i think it is the answer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a man takes on the responsibilities of childcare or housework or scheduling but does a bad or halfass job of it because he does not try to learn the best practices by reading or networking or even just asking someone who knows more than him then that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. His ego should not be enough to get him a pass on these responsibilities.

I can't even imagine that a man would allow his female partner to change the oil in the car without having learned how first, or try to build a shed in the backyard just by using her supposedly superior intellect only as a guide. I can think of many other examples but the point is nobody should be allowed to screw things up just in the interest of not micromanaging their efforts. Especially not the care of children!

People learn by doing. Not by reading a book or blog or forum or asking a friend.

If people do not do, they don't learn.

I assume that you are a single parent?

dp.. you assume that all women just "know" how to do things like parent, clean and cook.

I learned how to cook by reading and watching, and yes doing. DH is a better cook than I am, so he gave me suggestions. Never once did I get defensive, and tell him to do all the cooking then if I was doing it wrong.

I read parenting books. DH didn't. There's a running joke in my house about how DH doesn't read the manual or instructions when he is putting stuff together.

Men generally don't like taking instructions. There's that stereotype of how men will never ask for directions even if they're lost. There's a bit of truth to that.

A lot of men just don't like asking for help or wanting to be told how to do something, particularly by women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both. [/quote



I was nodding “yes” up to the tour part. I think you should care how people perceived your space. Even though it was his friends you are both a team. It also reflects on you. If he cooked then you could’ve picked up. Things don’t have to be perfect but it would’ve been a nice gesture and thoughtful to your guests if you had either cleaned or told them that room was off limits for now. It’s okay to tell them not now. Cat vomit and dirty laundry is not what any guest wants to see when they are coming over for a meal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

For starters, because we have a child together.

Must be tough to live with a guy like that. Why not just divorce?

dp.. divorce is not always the answer to everything.

if you don't like your spouse that much, i think it is the answer

not always. Sometimes the financial situation makes it harder to divorce. And of course, there are the kids.

Divorce is the answer for certain things like abuse, but not necessarily because he doesn't wash the dishes as well as the wife can, nor does he want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

So you expect women to parent their husbands too? If he feels pushed aside, he is a grown man, he needs to use his words and have a conversation with his wife not just say "Oh she gets mad at me for doing it wrong so I don't."

I see reading comprehension is not your forte. you missed the entire point - that let your DH take the lead in doing things, do not micromanage (in fact, just back off) and if he fails (as we all do), he'll figure out an alternative solution.

dp.. men generally have low standards for things like cleaning and childcare. What you are saying is that the woman should accept the man's low level effort because he's at least doing something. His "alternative solution" is to just half a$$ it cause it's good enough for him.

Who get to decide what the "right" level of cleanliness is?

Look, to use an example a PP used. the right level of cleanliness for pots and pans is that they don't have old, crusted food on them. I don't care *how* he does it, he can train white mice to scrub them, or use a power washer while standing on his head and singing Rigoletto, but the end result needs to be pots and pans that don't have old, crusted food on them.

[Anonymous]

A lot of men really don't care.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1142718.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

For starters, because we have a child together.

Must be tough to live with a guy like that. Why not just divorce?

dp.. divorce is not always the answer to everything.

if you don't like your spouse that much, i think it is the answer

not always. Sometimes the financial situation makes it harder to divorce. And of course, there are the kids.

Divorce is the answer for certain things like abuse, but not necessarily because he doesn't wash the dishes as well as the wife can, nor does he want to.

Terrible marriage. I couldn't live like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of men really don't care.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1142718.page

and there are an equal number of women who want things done only according to their way - here's one extreme example

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1144439.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both. [/quote



I was nodding “yes” up to the tour part. I think you should care how people perceived your space. Even though it was his friends you are both a team. It also reflects on you. If he cooked then you could’ve picked up. Things don’t have to be perfect but it would’ve been a nice gesture and thoughtful to your guests if you had either cleaned or told them that room was off limits for now. It’s okay to tell them not now. Cat vomit and dirty laundry is not what any guest wants to see when they are coming over for a meal.

PP here. I agree with you - in general I prefer laundry and cat vomit off the floor of the bedroom before guests arrive, and if they aren't for some reason, I would opt not to give them a tour. I think cleaning those sorts of things is thoughtful to your guests.

But that's the point, right? This was his event. His decisions. He decides how to spend his time, how clean the house needs to be, and whether his desire for his friend not to see cat vomit is more important than his friend's desire to see our house. His friends truly don't give a damn about cat vomit and laundry, he doesn't care, so that's the decision he made.

It's not that I made a decision that cat vomit is fine to show guests - it's that we, as a couple, made a decision that when one of us has our friends over, that person is in charge of all the duties of hosting, which includes cleanup. So I spent Saturday afternoon on a hobby of mine while he cooked and got things ready (the main space looked quite nice, I must say). I don't second guess him, I don't poke around before guests arrive and make sure it's up to *my* standards. He's in charge. And I trust him to handle things in his way, even if it's not my way, or some objective "right" way, that of course does not exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

Do you have an equal partner if your partner is leaving cat vomit on the floor and showing friends? You two do an equal amount of work around the house because you’ve made peace with settling for his lower standards, but that doesn’t make you “equals.”

Guess what? He was still the one who cleaned up the cat vomit. So, yeah. Equals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of men really don't care.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1142718.page

and there are an equal number of women who want things done only according to their way - here's one extreme example

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1144439.page

not sure about "equal" number.

Most housechores and childcare are done by women, and not because they want it done their way, but because most men don't really care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

For starters, because we have a child together.

Must be tough to live with a guy like that. Why not just divorce?

dp.. divorce is not always the answer to everything.

if you don't like your spouse that much, i think it is the answer

not always. Sometimes the financial situation makes it harder to divorce. And of course, there are the kids.

Divorce is the answer for certain things like abuse, but not necessarily because he doesn't wash the dishes as well as the wife can, nor does he want to.

Terrible marriage. I couldn't live like that.

you'd be surprised at what you could live with if you don't have many options.

My mother had to live with my emotionally/verbally abusive father because she had zero options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both. [/quote



I was nodding “yes” up to the tour part. I think you should care how people perceived your space. Even though it was his friends you are both a team. It also reflects on you. If he cooked then you could’ve picked up. Things don’t have to be perfect but it would’ve been a nice gesture and thoughtful to your guests if you had either cleaned or told them that room was off limits for now. It’s okay to tell them not now. Cat vomit and dirty laundry is not what any guest wants to see when they are coming over for a meal.

PP here. I agree with you - in general I prefer laundry and cat vomit off the floor of the bedroom before guests arrive, and if they aren't for some reason, I would opt not to give them a tour. I think cleaning those sorts of things is thoughtful to your guests.

But that's the point, right? This was his event. His decisions. He decides how to spend his time, how clean the house needs to be, and whether his desire for his friend not to see cat vomit is more important than his friend's desire to see our house. His friends truly don't give a damn about cat vomit and laundry, he doesn't care, so that's the decision he made.

It's not that I made a decision that cat vomit is fine to show guests - it's that we, as a couple, made a decision that when one of us has our friends over, that person is in charge of all the duties of hosting, which includes cleanup. So I spent Saturday afternoon on a hobby of mine while he cooked and got things ready (the main space looked quite nice, I must say). I don't second guess him, I don't poke around before guests arrive and make sure it's up to *my* standards. He's in charge. And I trust him to handle things in his way, even if it's not my way, or some objective "right" way, that of course does not exist.

Thank you so much for responding PP. I read your response and thought that I am way too controlling to do that, but I can respect that it works for you and your DH. The crazy lady in me needs to ask one more question lol. Were there any women present or was it all men that came over? I would’ve been able to swallow it more if it were all men, but would’ve had a conniption if their wives had seen the mess and vomit. I think you must live a really carefree life. I’m return to get there. Baby steps!