Men want to care, but . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You are doing this right. You have to let them have a go. DH was primary caregiver when our kids were young. I started trying to step in all the time but then it got too much with balancing work. He was absolutely fine managing without me. Sure the meals he cooked were are a bit blah and sometimes the clothes he put on the kids weren’t matching. But everything turned out ok

[Anonymous]

Why was he washing tissues??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Number 1 reason is likely a wife who insists the husband doesn’t do it well enough/correctly/quickly enough. Recall the wife who was mad at her husband for washing tissues.

If you don’t like how I do it enough to cause so much controversy, you can do it yourself.

Partly true. But, if I'm the one who's handling most of the logistics and carrying out the tasks, if I'm asking you/you're offering to do something, you do it the way that comports with my system. You don't act like you're doing me some favor AND then hold me up or do it poorly (e.g. leaving clothes in the dryer so that they come out a rumpled mess. And then not iron or steam them out. T-shirts and jean shorts? Fine. My work clothes, not ok.

And you can strike if you want . . . that just means your stuff isn't getting done. So enjoy your spiteful refusal to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

Your post could have stopped there. Becuase this is it and doesn't happen a lot (and my DH is more involved than most. But I have to TELL him 95% of the time). And you also assume, wrongly, that women don't let them at least try. Many do. I did. But, that doesn't always work out as you're implying. And I resent you placing the blame for this at the feet of women. Again. I guess I shouldn't be shocked by this again. But I always am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Number 1 reason is likely a wife who insists the husband doesn’t do it well enough/correctly/quickly enough. Recall the wife who was mad at her husband for washing tissues.

If you don’t like how I do it enough to cause so much controversy, you can do it yourself.

Yes, we know this song. It’s called Weaponized Incompetence. Nope. Sorry.

Who is in charge of the house? The woman. That means she makes the decisions and criticizes. That means she does most of the work so that it's done to her standards. And then she can complain that her DH doesn't do his part.

Weaponized domesticity.

Are you writing from 1955? What a load of BS you just posted and amazingly, you actually believe it.

+1 LOL the ^PP is a dummy for stepping on that landmine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12 years of marriage and this has definitely been a challenge, especially with kids in the mix. First, I know I’m a clean-freak, and a borderline germaphobe. Therefore, there are things I need/want to do myself. DH can easily go a week without showering if no one inquired, polar opposites! Therefore, we tend to divide housework based on what we care about and our strengths, which unfortunately falls along stereotypical gender roles. I do most of the cleaning/organizing (cooking is more balanced). He does all the finances, house repairs etc. The only reason this division of labor holds is because he does take the lead child rearing. He does bath, putting to bed, feedings, preparing lunches, pick-ups. Of course, I’m right there with them, and sometimes have to fight for my turn to do these things! But DH has fully embraced parenting and is proud of his role. This all started with him taking 10weeks of parental leave, 7 of which were solo). Point is, sometimes you have to see what works, DH doesn’t care about cleanliness. I do! So we hired help, and I just accept that aside from a few tasks he has embraced (loading/unloading dishwasher, folding laundry) the rest is on me. May not be ideal, and many times I complain, but I’m trying to find an equilibrium in which we are both pulling our weight.

That works because your DH takes a very active role in the child rearing.

In a lot of households, the women are doing most of the child rearing and everything else.

Men want to care, but.. they are mostly too lazy to do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12 years of marriage and this has definitely been a challenge, especially with kids in the mix. First, I know I’m a clean-freak, and a borderline germaphobe. Therefore, there are things I need/want to do myself. DH can easily go a week without showering if no one inquired, polar opposites! Therefore, we tend to divide housework based on what we care about and our strengths, which unfortunately falls along stereotypical gender roles. I do most of the cleaning/organizing (cooking is more balanced). He does all the finances, house repairs etc. The only reason this division of labor holds is because he does take the lead child rearing. He does bath, putting to bed, feedings, preparing lunches, pick-ups. Of course, I’m right there with them, and sometimes have to fight for my turn to do these things! But DH has fully embraced parenting and is proud of his role. This all started with him taking 10weeks of parental leave, 7 of which were solo). Point is, sometimes you have to see what works, DH doesn’t care about cleanliness. I do! So we hired help, and I just accept that aside from a few tasks he has embraced (loading/unloading dishwasher, folding laundry) the rest is on me. May not be ideal, and many times I complain, but I’m trying to find an equilibrium in which we are both pulling our weight.

That works because your DH takes a very active role in the child rearing.

In a lot of households, the women are doing most of the child rearing and everything else.

Men want to care, but.. they are mostly too lazy to do anything about it.

Not lazy, just don't care to do all the stuff YOU decided was important without giving them a vote

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Number 1 reason is likely a wife who insists the husband doesn’t do it well enough/correctly/quickly enough. Recall the wife who was mad at her husband for washing tissues.

If you don’t like how I do it enough to cause so much controversy, you can do it yourself.

I agree that sometimes it’s that women need to accept different ways of doing, but… in so many cases it’s that the task isn’t being DONE. It’s not a different way, it’s the wrong way.

Swishing a dirty rag in a dirty pot full of dirt water isn’t going to get that pot clean. Whenever DH and FIL do the dishes, crusted food is left sitting on pots and pans. In order to cook again, those items need to be rewashed. Unless you’re cool with old ground beef or fish skin being in the new food.

Just one example, but the stereotype of the hapless man is often true. Ante both of them (and so many other men I know) willfully not cleaning the pots well so they won’t be tasked with dishwashing? In my FIL’s instance, volunteering quietly to wash the dishes and not fully washing them… for 30 years? Why?

+1
I have to rewash 95% of the stuff my husband washes because I refuse to eat from or cook with dirty cookware. HOWEVER, he doesn't know I do that. I quietly just rewash them when he's not around and I say nothing about it. I'll be damned if he thinks he doesn't have to do the dishes after I cook. He may do a crappy job, but I'm not letting him off the hook. If he uses the pot next for something he's eating, it's all on him. Go for it, cook with a crusty pot to your heart's content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Number 1 reason is likely a wife who insists the husband doesn’t do it well enough/correctly/quickly enough. Recall the wife who was mad at her husband for washing tissues.

If you don’t like how I do it enough to cause so much controversy, you can do it yourself.

Yes, we know this song. It’s called Weaponized Incompetence. Nope. Sorry.

Who is in charge of the house? The woman. That means she makes the decisions and criticizes. That means she does most of the work so that it's done to her standards. And then she can complain that her DH doesn't do his part.

Weaponized domesticity.

What?

[Anonymous]

I do not understand why you all got married.
All of you know men are worthless, and this has always been the way for "thousands of years", and men are fat and ugly. So why do you all sign up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why you all got married.
All of you know men are worthless, and this has always been the way for "thousands of years", and men are fat and ugly. So why do you all sign up?

When we were dating, he was receptive to learning the stuff his parents didn’t think boys needed to know. But after a while, he found it as tedious as most women do, and unlike most women, he stopped. I don’t think he decided to stop. I think he just reverted to the way he lived when he was single because that was easier.

Our last kid leaves for college in a month or so, and I’ll be living like I’m single then, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand why you all got married.
All of you know men are worthless, and this has always been the way for "thousands of years", and men are fat and ugly. So why do you all sign up?

Some of these posters may be miserable with miserable marriages but most of them are just lying or exaggerating or leaving a lot out.