Men want to care, but . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

For starters, because we have a child together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I got married, my mother told me the story that her mother told her. When my grandparents were newlyweds, her husband (my grandfather) cleaned the kitchen floor on hands and knees with rags instead of the mop. Grandma corrected him, told him the right way to do it - and he never cleaned the kitchen floor again. Lesson learned. From then on, she kept her mouth shut and he did lots of other stuff around the house.

Guys may do it differently. They may do it better or worse, more efficiently or less. Whatever. Express your appreciation. And keep your mouth shut.

This is so problematic. Why are some men so fragile that they can’t be told a better/easier/more efficient way to do something without completely shutting down and refusing to ever do that thing again? No I’m not going to complain that my husband loads dishes the opposite way than I do. It doesn’t really matter but if he’s hand washing the dishes every night because he’s never used a dishwasher, and I tell him “hey honey, let me show you how to use the dishwasher”, he wouldn’t take that as a personal slight. It’s teamwork. We teach each other things all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

Do you have an equal partner if your partner is leaving cat vomit on the floor and showing friends? You two do an equal amount of work around the house because you’ve made peace with settling for his lower standards, but that doesn’t make you “equals.”

[Anonymous]

Society isn't stopping men from parenting, but it's also not forcing them to parent fully. I have a "good" one who does 50% in a real sense and it's still pretty crazy to watch how even though my household is very egalitarian, perfect strangers feel the need to throw him a ticker tape parade and tell me how good I have it when they see him doing . . . the same stuff that I do. Never once has someone stopped him to say how lucky he is his kids have a good mom, but I've gotten that like, 4 separate times from perfect strangers?

So the idea that it's all society's fault is dumb. Adult men can decide how they want to live. But of course society influences all of us, so the fact that a mom who takes her kids to the playground and then checks her phone becomes a meme about "don't ignore your babies, Mama, you have so little time!" and a dad who takes his kids to the playground and checks his phone gets "oh, it's so nice to see a dad here! What a great poppa you have!!", means that the pressures on parenting *more*, parenting *better*, getting it right -- those pressures just aren't there for dads. They're parenting at all, and getting a high five like they live on Sesame Street. Mom has to get it right or she's demonized, so I can see how it could lead to micromanaging or over-researching and then insisting on that method and having to coach Dad to do it her way. And that could certainly be discouraging to a dad who just wants to do whatever his parents did to raise him, because he's doing okay.

You have to decide as both a man to push back against the "anything you do is enough" narrative to do fully half, and as a woman to push back against the "if you don't get everything right your kid will be a sociopath and everyone will know it's your fault" conditioning to be confident that you are handling your family in the way that works best for you. I still get some ugly-natured comments from people who think my DH being a good dad must mean I've left a vacuum where a good mom should have been - he'd only step up by necessity, basically. 50% at home is great and it's also not the norm so people will look for reasons it is happening for you and not them. Society exists, societal expectations and pressures exist, and you have to acknowledge them to navigate them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

For starters, because we have a child together.

Must be tough to live with a guy like that. Why not just divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

So you expect women to parent their husbands too? If he feels pushed aside, he is a grown man, he needs to use his words and have a conversation with his wife not just say "Oh she gets mad at me for doing it wrong so I don't."

I see reading comprehension is not your forte. you missed the entire point - that let your DH take the lead in doing things, do not micromanage (in fact, just back off) and if he fails (as we all do), he'll figure out an alternative solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

You have a willing partner. Many don’t. I wanted my DH to take his paternity solo. I asked him to research childcare options— he claimed he was too busy at work (mind you, I was working AND pregnant at the time). He wouldn’t do either. I wanted him to take the lead on solid foods— he agreed and then… didn’t. He would not stay alone with the baby until she was a year old. Oh and also, I had PPD, so this withdrawal in his part was not something I had mental bandwidth to deal with, while also doing all the parenting heavy lifting.

He just went into this frozen shell when we had a kid, deferred to me on everything even when I was actively trying to step back and let him take the lead. And this was a man who, before we had kids, talk about being a SAHD, pulling his weight, and was a fairly equal partner at home.

6 years later it’s better, but only because I’ve pushed and encouraged and set him up for success. Which is work in itself that no one did for me. And now people praise him all the time for being such an involved dad. No one praises me for being and involved mom. And I still do more than half.

You want to blame women for this problem because we LOVE BLAMING WOMEN. But this is on men and a culture that tells men from birth that caring for children and the home is women’s work, and women’s work isn’t for them.

That's how things work even if he wanted to help.

And yet… he didn’t. Whereas a more equal distribution would mean the non pregnant partner does more during that time given that the pregnant partner might have less energy or be somewhat limited.

Are you still married to this loser? If so, why?

For starters, because we have a child together.

Must be tough to live with a guy like that. Why not just divorce?

dp.. divorce is not always the answer to everything.

[Anonymous]

OP..troll rating 9/10 this time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

So you expect women to parent their husbands too? If he feels pushed aside, he is a grown man, he needs to use his words and have a conversation with his wife not just say "Oh she gets mad at me for doing it wrong so I don't."

I see reading comprehension is not your forte. you missed the entire point - that let your DH take the lead in doing things, do not micromanage (in fact, just back off) and if he fails (as we all do), he'll figure out an alternative solution.

dp.. men generally have low standards for things like cleaning and childcare. What you are saying is that the woman should accept the man's low level effort because he's at least doing something. His "alternative solution" is to just half a$$ it cause it's good enough for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman married to a man who does his half, in childcare and around the house, both physical work and emotional/mental/logistical stuff.

I'll tell you right now - this article has a point. And if you are a woman in a heterosexual marriage who is unhappy with your workload balance, shrug this off at your peril.

OF COURSE men should just jump in, and of course there are men who are just lazy/don't care, and of course, that is the bigger obstacle.

But when my husband talks to his friends about family and childcare and chore balance, he hears this kind of thing a lot, and these men have a point. I see it on DCUM, too. Mom takes more leave up front. Mom is nursing. Mom/baby have a special bond. Dad falls into a "helper" role right off the bat. Yeah, he changes diapers, does night feedings, helps out around the house. But who packs the diaper bag or knows what the baby needs for a vacation? Mom. Who is making sure the baby has the next sized clothes? Mom. Who is talking with their friends about sleep training and reading books about it? Mom. Who has higher standards for things like housecleaning because they have internalized that it's their job and they'll be judged on it? Mom. And that sets you on a path. All of a sudden, the kid is two, mom is primary parent, and when Dad tried to jump in on stuff, he is corrected or pushed out of the way (and often for good reason - mom has more experience and knowledge!)

If you're a mom in this situation, you need to back off. You need to let your husband try and fail at stuff. You need to let him find his way as a parent even if it's not your way. You need to do some things his way. You will never get to an equitable balance where you are the manager and are delegating tasks and setting the standard by which they need to be done. Some examples from my own life:

1) My husband was in charge of potty training. He picked a book I wouldn't have picked, a system I wouldn't have picked, it took WAY longer that I would have liked. But I shut my trap and let it happen, and guess what? Our kid uses the potty now. And what was the biggest challenge for him? That when he reached out to his parent friends, they basically all said "Oh, I dunno, my wife read a book I think I don't know which one." Wildly unhelpful.

2) My husband is currently in charge of finding a nanny to start in September. There is not a single interview on my calendar for this yet. I am diligently staying out of it. I was talking to a neighbor who is upset about the chore balance with her husband and she straight up said "I couldn't do that. What if you don't have a nanny?" He'll figure it out. He's a grown man. If he doesn't, he'll troubleshoot. Not everything has to be done perfectly and on my time table.

3) We had (his) friends over for dinner over the weekend. He cooked a delicious meal. Was the house as clean as I'd like? Nope. In fact, one of his friends hadn't been to our house before and asked for a tour, and there was dirty clothes and cat vomit on the floor of our bedroom. So what? His friends, his clothes, his cat, his event. If he doesn't care if his friends see our room like that, then I will choose to not care, too.

And it all started with him taking 12 weeks of parental leave, 10 of which was solo.

We are wildly happy, the kids are well cared for, and I get plenty of downtime. You can have things your way or you can have an equal partner. You can't have both.

So you expect women to parent their husbands too? If he feels pushed aside, he is a grown man, he needs to use his words and have a conversation with his wife not just say "Oh she gets mad at me for doing it wrong so I don't."

I see reading comprehension is not your forte. you missed the entire point - that let your DH take the lead in doing things, do not micromanage (in fact, just back off) and if he fails (as we all do), he'll figure out an alternative solution.

dp.. men generally have low standards for things like cleaning and childcare. What you are saying is that the woman should accept the man's low level effort because he's at least doing something. His "alternative solution" is to just half a$$ it cause it's good enough for him.

Who get to decide what the "right" level of cleanliness is?

[Anonymous]

If a man takes on the responsibilities of childcare or housework or scheduling but does a bad or halfass job of it because he does not try to learn the best practices by reading or networking or even just asking someone who knows more than him then that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. His ego should not be enough to get him a pass on these responsibilities.

I can't even imagine that a man would allow his female partner to change the oil in the car without having learned how first, or try to build a shed in the backyard just by using her supposedly superior intellect only as a guide. I can think of many other examples but the point is nobody should be allowed to screw things up just in the interest of not micromanaging their efforts. Especially not the care of children!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a man takes on the responsibilities of childcare or housework or scheduling but does a bad or halfass job of it because he does not try to learn the best practices by reading or networking or even just asking someone who knows more than him then that is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. His ego should not be enough to get him a pass on these responsibilities.

I can't even imagine that a man would allow his female partner to change the oil in the car without having learned how first, or try to build a shed in the backyard just by using her supposedly superior intellect only as a guide. I can think of many other examples but the point is nobody should be allowed to screw things up just in the interest of not micromanaging their efforts. Especially not the care of children!

People learn by doing. Not by reading a book or blog or forum or asking a friend.

If people do not do, they don't learn.

I assume that you are a single parent?