Why do some middle aged women ghost each other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was more common among younger people or teens.

I'm 54 and I've been trying to form a closer bond with a few local women I already knew as friendly acquaintances. I've been trying to organize coffee dates with them separately (they don't know each other) but I haven't been successful. I've sent them a few WhatsApp messages over the last 6 months (which they've read) but they never responded. Complete radio silence. Not even a 'thanks but no thanks'. Just ... nothing.

One woman is 62, she's been an acquaintance of ours for many years, the other is early 50s, we've known her for almost 2 years, also as an acquaintance. Both women live a 5 to 10 minutes walk away.

I don't bombard people with texts or messages.

If they don't wish to spend time with me for whatever reason, why can't they at least reply. It's just rude.

Forming close friendships in middle age is hard.

You have your answer. You made an invitation. They didn't respond. Let it go. Move on to the next social encounter. Join some clubs. Take some classes. Get a hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re admitting that you are angling to form a closer bond. They may sense that pressure. They may not want that.

Close friendships happen organically, or not at all. Enjoy people for who an what they are—whether that is a friendly neighbor, a friend you sometimes see at book club, or a lifelong close friend.

It gets tiring and tiresome when it happens again and again. It feels like no one has space or time for an extra friend.

Don't give up! Join a Meetup group -- those are people you KNOW want to be involved with others.

Those other women don't know what to do -- they don't want to make up an excuse, because then you'll just ask another time, and they don't want to say "No, I really don't want to go to coffee one-on-one with you" either. Also if they're older (no offense) maybe they don't realize you can see that they've read the messages? I agree that not responding is rude. They are not your friends. Just move on.

This is OP.
Thanks for your feedback. I am thinking of joining a Meet Up group. There are a few groups close to us.

I get that some people don't like to admit that they don't want to hang out with me and they say nothing instead (ghosting), however I personally prefer it when people are direct and honest.

Anyway one of the 2 women who didn't respond to my ouvertures is someone in our local circle of friends/acquaintances. We've known her for 15+ years. We're going out for dinner in a group soon (I expect there will be about 10 to 12 people there). This woman is coming too.
I wasn't going to say anything to her on the night (other than exchangng polite conversation and joining in with the others) but my husband now thinks I should ask her out face to face this time. His stance is 'people can't ignore you when you're there' ...

This kind of social pressure is rude. You're deliberately putting her on the spot. I wouldn't want to hang out with you, either. You seem very needy and demanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know what's going on in their lives. I met someone new to my neighborhood and we quickly went out for lunch and started texting a bunch - then my mother had a serious health problem, my nephew was diagnosed with a rare fatal condition, I got slammed with work, and I just didn't have the bandwidth to nurture this relationship.

About six months later I did reach out to this person and she basically said that I had flaked on her and thanks but no thanks to getting together again. One the one hand, I guess good for her for knowing what she wants - on the other, seemed like a fairly nasty way to behave toward someone she doesn't even really know, who was going through things she has no idea about.

Just to say: people might just be dealing with some stuff and not have the bandwidth for a new friendship right now. I think the other PPs are right that your best bet is to try to meet other people. Join a club, join a FB group for foodies and put up a broad invitation to have a group dinner (we made friends with people in a local foodie group when we were new to town - in middle age). You have to treat friendship like dating, basically - cast a wide net, try not to get too hung up on any one person, go out on a lot of first dates and see what sticks, etc.

Did you tell her or expect her to read your mind? That does not make her nasty ( what a childish expression) nasty is someone who picks their nose in public

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re admitting that you are angling to form a closer bond. They may sense that pressure. They may not want that.

Close friendships happen organically, or not at all. Enjoy people for who an what they are—whether that is a friendly neighbor, a friend you sometimes see at book club, or a lifelong close friend.

So, there’s actually a lot of research suggesting that in adulthood, developing and maintaining close friendships requires intentional investment of time and energy. Unlimited time, proximity, and energy for relationships allow friendships to develop organically, but those are luxuries many people enjoy only in adolescence and young adulthood, if at all. And beyond young adulthood, there’s a devaluing of friendship in favor of romantic relationships or family relationships. Plenty of books and articles about this if you’re interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re admitting that you are angling to form a closer bond. They may sense that pressure. They may not want that.

Close friendships happen organically, or not at all. Enjoy people for who an what they are—whether that is a friendly neighbor, a friend you sometimes see at book club, or a lifelong close friend.

It gets tiring and tiresome when it happens again and again. It feels like no one has space or time for an extra friend.

Don't give up! Join a Meetup group -- those are people you KNOW want to be involved with others.

Those other women don't know what to do -- they don't want to make up an excuse, because then you'll just ask another time, and they don't want to say "No, I really don't want to go to coffee one-on-one with you" either. Also if they're older (no offense) maybe they don't realize you can see that they've read the messages? I agree that not responding is rude. They are not your friends. Just move on.

This is OP.
Thanks for your feedback. I am thinking of joining a Meet Up group. There are a few groups close to us.

I get that some people don't like to admit that they don't want to hang out with me and they say nothing instead (ghosting), however I personally prefer it when people are direct and honest.

Anyway one of the 2 women who didn't respond to my ouvertures is someone in our local circle of friends/acquaintances. We've known her for 15+ years. We're going out for dinner in a group soon (I expect there will be about 10 to 12 people there). This woman is coming too.
I wasn't going to say anything to her on the night (other than exchangng polite conversation and joining in with the others) but my husband now thinks I should ask her out face to face this time. His stance is 'people can't ignore you when you're there' ...

This kind of social pressure is rude. You're deliberately putting her on the spot. I wouldn't want to hang out with you, either. You seem very needy and demanding.

Did you not read my update? I have decided that I will not bring it up at the group dinner. I will exchange polite conversation and join in with the others.
It was my husband's suggestion, not mine. He prefers a direct approach a lot of the time. His attitude in general (especially in the workplace, and especially in his line of work) is 'if you don't push yourself forward and be proactive, no one will know you exist'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you led a pretty charmed life OP? I ask because many of my close friendships at this stage have formed around stressors-raising a child with special needs, eldercare issues with a challenging parent, bonding over husband's health issues.

I had perfectly nice acquiescence who tried to become closer to me and complained she has no close friends. I like her a lot, but there is no depth and she cannot even fathom or have empathy for the life challenges many of us face. She will spend all of coffee time talking about how her daughter may drop pre-med and got the scientist route instead and they really had their hearts set on her being a doctor.

Then there is her mother, who even she admits is the kindest and gentlest soul-she always thanks them for visiting and tells her how proud she is of her and her children. Truly am happy for her, but quite a few of us have a sh&tshow going on where we basically face verbal and emotional abuse being there for mom. This woman literally assumed people who complain must just be bad daughters. She just lives in an easy life bubble, yet the smallest set back sets her off and she obsess to you over somehow not texting back and it's only been 24 hours.

OP my life is filled to the brim with real life stressors. If I don't hear from someone I assume their life is like this too or there was an emergency or she is busy or we just don't click in her book. I then get some emergency call that mom fell or my kid has to be taken to the ER or whatever and I don't have time to plot and plan cornering someone at a social gathering because she didn't want to do coffee. My friends don't deserve that, even the ones who are just light friends. If they bring me joy I am grateful.

OP again.
The two biggest stressors in my life were when my parents died. My mom died when she was younger than I am now, and my dad was only mid 60s.
I found it incredibly hard to deal with the aftermath of their deaths. But that was a long time ago.

I have been fortunate that the rest of my life has been relatively stress free and uneventful.
My husband and I don't have kids, so no grandkids either. My parents have long gone, so no eldercare issues. My very elderly MIL is still alive and she is receiving the appropriate care.
I have no siblings but my husband has 2.
We are doing OK financially, we travel, we work, we enjoy the town we live in.
I don't know what else to say, other than this town ticks all the boxes except for our social life, which was very different when we lived in a large city.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have a lot of reactions to your post — in part because I have one “friend” who frequently reaches out to me — but not to others in our group. She needs a friend, and, to me, it feels like she’s choosing to reach out to me for issues that have little to do with our actual compatibility or any shared interests. I feel put on the spot by her efforts. At the same time, I don’t want to hurt her by bluntly explaining why being a pleasant acquaintance is the most that I feel up for.

So, OP, what sort of script or behavior would you feel comfortable with coming from a prospective “friend” who doesn’t want to be too blunt or hurt your feelings — but who might be genuinely perplexed that the “take the hint” behaviors that they’re responding with are apparently not direct enough to be understood?

This is a real question, and I appreciate your help with it. Your response might also give us insights that can lead to useful suggestions for you in your situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know what's going on in their lives. I met someone new to my neighborhood and we quickly went out for lunch and started texting a bunch - then my mother had a serious health problem, my nephew was diagnosed with a rare fatal condition, I got slammed with work, and I just didn't have the bandwidth to nurture this relationship.

About six months later I did reach out to this person and she basically said that I had flaked on her and thanks but no thanks to getting together again. One the one hand, I guess good for her for knowing what she wants - on the other, seemed like a fairly nasty way to behave toward someone she doesn't even really know, who was going through things she has no idea about.

Just to say: people might just be dealing with some stuff and not have the bandwidth for a new friendship right now. I think the other PPs are right that your best bet is to try to meet other people. Join a club, join a FB group for foodies and put up a broad invitation to have a group dinner (we made friends with people in a local foodie group when we were new to town - in middle age). You have to treat friendship like dating, basically - cast a wide net, try not to get too hung up on any one person, go out on a lot of first dates and see what sticks, etc.

Did you tell her or expect her to read your mind? That does not make her nasty ( what a childish expression) nasty is someone who picks their nose in public

Showing your underpants to someone you don't even really know because you're mad they couldn't get as close to you as you wanted when you wanted is nasty. It's not normal. It's not how people with a regular amount of empathy behave.

It's also not how normal people behave when they live in the same neighborhood and are going to run into each other sometimes. What you do in that case is say that you'd love to get together but the next few weeks are very busy and let's reconnect after that. Saying something like that lets everyone save face and be normal if you happen to see each other at the store the following week. It's not the most awkward thing you could possibly say when you actually don't even know the other person and have no idea what's going on in their life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re admitting that you are angling to form a closer bond. They may sense that pressure. They may not want that.

Close friendships happen organically, or not at all. Enjoy people for who an what they are—whether that is a friendly neighbor, a friend you sometimes see at book club, or a lifelong close friend.

So, there’s actually a lot of research suggesting that in adulthood, developing and maintaining close friendships requires intentional investment of time and energy. Unlimited time, proximity, and energy for relationships allow friendships to develop organically, but those are luxuries many people enjoy only in adolescence and young adulthood, if at all. And beyond young adulthood, there’s a devaluing of friendship in favor of romantic relationships or family relationships. Plenty of books and articles about this if you’re interested.

Yes but both parties have to WANT the closer friendship or have the time and energy for it. And in this case it sounds like the objects of OP's affection do not, for whatever reason, and OP coming at them with reams of research about how friendship takes effort will not change that.

[Anonymous]

I check my WhatsApp once a month.

[Anonymous]

I don’t want to hurt her by bluntly explaining why being a pleasant acquaintance is the most that I feel up for.

NP here. PP, I would say something like, "I don't feel I'm someone who can help you." "I don't feel I can help." Something like that. You can keep it vague and not be drawn into explaining. No explanation necessary. Say it again or 3 times if you need to.

I've had people say to me, "I'm pretty busy with the friends I have and don't really have extra time." Another instance, when I tried to help someone who was going through a medical crisis, she did not want my help and said, "I am keeping my circle small." That made sense. Those words assured me that she was ok and had the people she needed. I had just wanted to make sure she felt supported. It didn't have to be me.

A pet peeve of mine is when people decline with, "I'm so overwhelmed ... or I'm not feeling well ..." something that evokes sympathy. That's gutless and not nice, actually. That enlists sympathy. The response of many reasonable people would be to try to help, somehow, to lighten the load of the friend or work to cheer up the friend/acquaintance.

[Anonymous]

If they are really sick, Obviously "not feeling well" is appropriate to say. PP again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re admitting that you are angling to form a closer bond. They may sense that pressure. They may not want that.

Close friendships happen organically, or not at all. Enjoy people for who an what they are—whether that is a friendly neighbor, a friend you sometimes see at book club, or a lifelong close friend.

So, there’s actually a lot of research suggesting that in adulthood, developing and maintaining close friendships requires intentional investment of time and energy. Unlimited time, proximity, and energy for relationships allow friendships to develop organically, but those are luxuries many people enjoy only in adolescence and young adulthood, if at all. And beyond young adulthood, there’s a devaluing of friendship in favor of romantic relationships or family relationships. Plenty of books and articles about this if you’re interested.

Yes but both parties have to WANT the closer friendship or have the time and energy for it. And in this case it sounds like the objects of OP's affection do not, for whatever reason, and OP coming at them with reams of research about how friendship takes effort will not change that.

Not disagreeing. Maybe she’s off base in trying to get closer to these particular women. Idk. But to tell her friendships absolutely must happen organically isn’t helpful, I think, because there’s plenty of evidence that isn’t true.

The middle-aged women I know who have the most friendships and the deepest friendships either don’t work outside the home or are single. Maybe they just have better relationship skills than everyone else I know? Or maybe they have more time to invest and fewer competing demands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re admitting that you are angling to form a closer bond. They may sense that pressure. They may not want that.

Close friendships happen organically, or not at all. Enjoy people for who an what they are—whether that is a friendly neighbor, a friend you sometimes see at book club, or a lifelong close friend.

Somebody has to initiate moving the friendship forward no? You can't sit there like a bump and wait for it to just organically happen due to forces in nature. It's not that hard to reply you are busy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t want to hurt her by bluntly explaining why being a pleasant acquaintance is the most that I feel up for.

NP here. PP, I would say something like, "I don't feel I'm someone who can help you." "I don't feel I can help." Something like that. You can keep it vague and not be drawn into explaining. No explanation necessary. Say it again or 3 times if you need to.

I've had people say to me, "I'm pretty busy with the friends I have and don't really have extra time." Another instance, when I tried to help someone who was going through a medical crisis, she did not want my help and said, "I am keeping my circle small." That made sense. Those words assured me that she was ok and had the people she needed. I had just wanted to make sure she felt supported. It didn't have to be me.

A pet peeve of mine is when people decline with, "I'm so overwhelmed ... or I'm not feeling well ..." something that evokes sympathy. That's gutless and not nice, actually. That enlists sympathy. The response of many reasonable people would be to try to help, somehow, to lighten the load of the friend or work to cheer up the friend/acquaintance.

Thanks for your suggestions and possible scripts. This is helpful!