More empathy for kids or spouse?

[Anonymous]

Like others have said, I’m not sure why it has to be an either or thing. I’m also wondering if people are not realizing that you can be empathetic and also view the world differently. My husband was talking about the state of the country awhile back and he was worried. I listened for a bit then said “Well, we survived the 1790’s” and gave some examples of what was said and done back then. Point being, I was able to listen to him, care about what he was saying and still disagree I hope respectfully that what he was saying was anything to worry about. I also knew my limits, even if I had agreed something was wrong, I’m a nobody. I can’t call the president and say “Hey Joe, you really need to fix this s***”. Better to focus my energy on what I can, the comfort and wellbeing of my kids and husband, things that make me happy, then worry about things I have absolutely no control over.

Kids are a little different, they are still learning, though even that doesn’t give them unlimited access to “you’re right honey” not unless you feel that way.

I can remember when one of my kids was all worried about what would happen if a tornado hit Grandma’s house. Grandma doesn’t have a basement, and this really bothered her. My mom took my kid aside, showed her exactly what they’d do if a tornado was headed their way. My dad said “I’ve lived in this house for over 20 years.. I’ve lived on the planet for over 70 years, you know what, I just don’t worry about this.. I might if we lived in Kansas, but we don’t. For me, this just isn’t worth worrying about”. Both attitudes were/are valid.Nobody was nasty, in fact my dad’s comments made me laugh, they were a nice balance to my kid “but I don’t want you guys to die” feelings. My dad even told her “I don’t want to die either, but I’m also not going to let a tornado that isn’t here on a beautiful clear day worry me”. There is something to be said for each approach.
Realize too that adults can solve problems kids don’t have the power to do. Nothing is a big deal when you can buy the ice cream, get the candy, go the park or not go to the park.. adults have power and abilities that seem magical to kids. It’s important to remember that, and why I get puzzled when parents go “now Johnny, is this big problem or a little problem?” Obviously Johnny thinks it’s a big problem or he wouldn’t be upset. It’s only a little problem because you as the adult can resolve it with no loss to your comfort.


I certainly wouldn’t spread myself so thin in one direction that I couldn’t be kind to my spouse. I know I’d be infuriated if my spouse told me “that’s life” if a neighbor took my parking space or my trash can, especially if my spouse wasn’t there to deal with the inconvenience. If “it’s just a story I’m telling you”, you don’t get to tell me it isn’t a big deal. You didn’t feel the frustration, (now I have to carry a fussy toddler and then go back for the groceries and do this all solo) the confusion, (wait, maybe I did bring in the trash can), and tell me blithely” It’s not a big deal”. I’d be angry that he put my comfort below that of someone he isn’t sharing a life with, especially if that person did something wrong. If I tell him something upset me, he needs to listen and say “if parking is this upsetting, do you want to move?” Not everybody has to worry about where they can park their car when they get home. I’d need to know that he cared about me to realize I had a problem, I thought enough of it to tell him, I needed a resolution, even if it’s “we don’t need to go to that movie theater anymore” Ditto for rude customer service, “that’s life” isn’t something anybody needs to hear when I’ve dealt with a person who’s sole purpose is to get paid to solve a problem that is within their scope. Better to say “Call their boss” or “I’ve been fine at that store, next time I’ll handle it”. Part of why I feel this way is that women can and are minimized in ways men simply aren’t. I’ve never heard men say “we moved from the townhouses because parking sucked” the way I’ve heard women say it.

As for the news, if I was upset, I’d want my spouse to at least listen knowing that news stories will impact us differently at different points in our lives. “I don’t have time for this” would make me really think about the marriage, especially if I’d never gotten upset about a house fire or a dead baby before. I’d want my spouse to at least ask me “why does this bother you?” Maybe you have a baby. Maybe something about the house fire reminded you of your house or one of your routines. Part of a relationship with anybody is finding out what makes them tick.

Finally, I do think some people use empathy to get attention. Not everything is worth crying about all the time as my dad would say. There is indeed some nasty stuff in this world. There is also a lot of good too. It’s worth remembering that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember the blowback Ayelet Waldman got for speaking her mind about this topic publicly?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1185105/A-mothers-confession-Hate-I-love-husband-MORE-children.html

I was going to post this.

I agree with her. I would jump in front of a train for my kid but I love my husband more and put our marriage first.

The only issue I have with that piece (and this post made me think of it) is where she said she’d more easily get over the death of one of her children than that of her husband. That is, to me, unfathomable. DH and I love each other a ton, but we’d also push each other in front of a bus to save one of our kids.

A couple can prioritize their marriage in ways that aren’t inappropriately selfish.

Oh yeah I don't think I would "get over" my kid's death quickly. Would be equal amounts devastated over both kid/DH dying but in different ways. Would not personally be willing to push DH in front of a bus, even hypothetically, to save one of my kids though. In a "trolley problem" situation I'd prefer that we all die together than actively killing spouse to save kid.

This has been a fun episode of The Good Place!

I think it’s more the instinct that DH and I know would kick in in an emergency situation. I’m biased, too, that I’ve learned more about grief than most people (for professional reasons) and the death of a child is something people never get over. I remember being at training with a grief expert who had lost a child and he said that he had worked with grieving parents for decades, thought he had a sense of what they went through, but that when he lost his son, he realized he had no idea. That’s always stuck with me.

[Anonymous]

The dynamics are really different between me and my kids versus me and my spouse. I empathize with my kids all the time and don't expect them to empathize with me. Sometimes they do, which is great on two levels because it just feels good to be understood but also because it means I'm doing a good job of teaching them how empathy works, which is part of parenting goals. But I don't expect it to be equal at this point in our lives. When they are adults I will feel different and I will expect them to reciprocate my empathy because I will consider us equals who both owe each other respect and kindness. But now they are little and I cut them a huge amount of slack because I think they need it. They are learning.

Totally different deal with my DH. It's not a quid pro quo or anything, but in adult relationships, empathy has to be reciprocal or it can get into a user or abusive relationship and I have no interest in that. There has to be more balance and it's okay to call each other out on this to help keep in in check, in my opinion. I have tons of empathy for my DH and he for me, but also sometimes we're both drained and one of us is demanding a lot of listening or empathy from the other and he or I will say, "Ok, but I don't have capacity for this right now." And that is FINE. I mean, we don't do it if someone is like "I need to process some feelings I'm having about my dad's death." But yeah, if my DH comes home from the post office ranting about a bad experience and I am just at my limit for the day, I have no problem telling him "Sorry, this cannot be my problem today." And, because he's an adult with emotional regulation skills, he'll deal with that and go for a run or call his brother or whatever he needs to do.

Adults who demand empathy 100% of the time over every single thing are really hard to deal with. I think it can come from an honest place where they maybe didn't get the support they needed as children and therefore are still learning to emotionally regulate and wind up asking a lot from the people in their lives (been there, actually) but as someone who has been through this, one of the best things you can do as a fellow adult in that situation is say "Your feelings are valid and also I don't have the bandwidth to process them with you right now." Learning to accept that is a mark of maturity and takes work, but it's also something that every adult should aspire to because otherwise sh!t just does to work. We can't all go around emoting all the time asking for empathy over every little thing. Kids can, but adults really do have to just sack up sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Let’s. It conflate empathy actions - which can be fatiguing, with validating another adults feelings. The latter can be listening and saying you hear them, you really hear them. You may even understand them. You can still disagree or agree, but you never invalidate another person or child’s feelings.

So when a PP notes that people feel (rightfully) upset when their spouse says Who cares, so what!, why bother, they are already invalidating you. Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a thread yesterday someone mentioned how they had a lot more empathy for their kids than their spouse, which made me think about that all night. Other people agreed with that poster. I feel the exact opposite.

I'm a great spouse and a great mom, but I have unlimited empathy for dh and not so much empathy for my kids. I find myself faking it with my kids a lot. My dd especially is a lot more sensitive than dh and I, and I can't relate. I'm always hugging her, validating her feelings and asking her how it makes her feel, but yeah she gets upset over things that wouldn't bother me. I'd also never yell at dh for leaving a mess, but I'm constantly yelling at my kids or ordering them around (and I mean yelling in a productive way, not screaming or being angry). I'm teaching them how to clean, whereas for dh, I give him grace and just pick up after him. DH does it to me too. He's never asked me why the house is a mess or there's no dinner. Instead, he just asks me what I'd like to eat and he starts cooking. I've noticed that when it's bedlam and the kids are going crazy, we both step in on the other parent's side. It's us versus the kids.

So, who do you have more empathy for- dh or your kids?

This is bizarre.

You let your spouse off the hook for leaving messes around for long times yet you berate your kids for leaving a mess?

What do you think your kids are actually learning from their father or you? Actions will always speak louder than words. Even angry shouting or reminders.

Start an allowance system for your kids to get their habits up to speed.
Start executive functioning coaching for your spouse to get his habits better.

OP here. You've got me pegged wrong. DH and I both are making messes and also cleaning up each other's messes. Neither one of us is lazy or has bad habits. Is your house perfectly immaculate with small kids? Sheesh. If I see dh's coat laying out, I'll hang it in the coat closet. If dh finds my coffee mug in the bathroom, he'll carry it down. On and on. But for kids, we do try to make them clean up their messes so they learn how and also so they'll make less mess next time.

I already said I'm not screaming at my kids, but yelling sure. Like last night I yelled up that I needed them to come down and clean up the playroom before we read books. I would never tell dh that, he's an adult.

I think PP was right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it have to be a contest?

OP here. No. I was genuinely curious because I'm sure DH would say me too, hands down. We picked each other and are together for life versus kids who you try to train up to good humans, but they leave after 18 years.

Totally disagree. Your kids are your blood and if you are close it will be for life. Then will come the grand-kids. Men have a shelf life due to divorce, or dying.

If you don't plan to be involved after their 18 then you really failed as a parent. They will feel the same.

I strangely agree w/this statement.

In it’s entirety too.

Every. single. word.

[Anonymous]

My wife was very empathetic before we had kids. She almost completely ignored me afterwards. It has sucked. Our marriage may not last during empty nest phase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife was very empathetic before we had kids. She almost completely ignored me afterwards. It has sucked. Our marriage may not last during empty nest phase.

This is so sad and it's why I nearly over-corrected the opposite way (put my marriage wayyy above parenting as a priority, to the point where I'm a little indulgent about it). My mom was like your wife. My parents are still married but my dad is clearly lonely and pining for connection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife was very empathetic before we had kids. She almost completely ignored me afterwards. It has sucked. Our marriage may not last during empty nest phase.

Why don’t you do half the empathetic lifting with the kids and then she can divide her load up between kids and you better.

Try it for a few months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the quality of my empathy is different. Kids are new. They don't have perspective. If my kid is devastated about something seemingly trivial, I still have empathy because they are just figuring out how to handle stuff like disappointment, frustration, grief. I don't get impatient with those feelings because for them, that's a big deal and they are trying to figure out how to process it. We spend time talking about how we respond to things and what we can do to make hard things easier. I don't view the process of teaching my kids how to manage their emotions as separate from having empathy for them. I never just tell to get over something or that something is "no big deal", though I do sometimes explain that what feels like a big deal might be okay if we learn how to handle it.

With my DH, I have a lot of empathy for the reality of being an adult and a parent in this world we live in. Lots of empathy for feeling tired, for not always wanting to do his job or chores around the house or parenting. It come naturally because I feel that way too sometimes. But I have more limited empathy for him when he gets upset about something that I don't think matters. Like sometimes he will have these very strong reactions to something frustrating/disappointing in the news, or to inconveniences in our lives (like a neighbor being inconsiderate or the bad customer service) and I find myself not being able to listen to it for too long. It's like "yes, okay, I know this is annoying but it's also life and it's not going to change?"

Also, my kids are still very little and I think sometimes I have empathy fatigue after being with them, especially on one of those hard days where they are very disregulated and need a lot of support, and I don't always have a ton left for DH. That might seem unfair, I don't know. But again, they are new. They are just learning this stuff. I think on some level I think "You are a grownup, you need to figure some of this out on your own -- I can't do for you what I do for them."

NP. I feel the exact opposite! With my kids I'm like "you have the best life ever, stop whining!" and with my husband I'm like "work sucks right now for you and I get it."