Taylor Swift is awful (and her music isn't even very good)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see how someone who has only heard the radio singles would be confused by Taylor’s success and her rabid fan base. She has a habit of releasing some of her worst songs as singles. Me, Bad Blood, You Need to Calm Down, Look What You Made Me Do, Ready for It, and even Shake It Off. You need to go beyond those tracks to understand why she has so many fans and industry accolades.

But at least some of those songs are catchy (namely Bad Blood and Shake It Off), I've listened to her other music and it feels sooooo trite to me. It just sounds like someone who has never been in love and never struggled in life, writing about falling in love and struggling in life. Even when the music is decent, the lyrics are such a sticking point for me.

I actually can imagine a parallel universe where she creates more meaningful and frankly better music by being willing to work with lyrical collaborators more frequently. I think she created this brand early on as a young woman writing love songs from the perspective of a teenage girl, but instead of growing and evolving, she's stuck with that and it doesn't ring true to me at all. The more I learn of her personal life (information I don't go looking for, it shows up in headlines I come across online by accident) the more ridiculous it sounds. She's in her 30s? It really seems like she is emotionally immature and since she "writes from the heart" it makes her music quite immature as well.

Can you provide some examples of these emotionally stunted songs?

[Anonymous]

People who don't like Taylor Swift writing an entire tretise on why she's not any good -- all you have to do is not like her music. Period, then end. People who like her music aren't "wrong" just because you don't like it. You will never find the right "reason" that someone shouldn't like music that you don't like. People have different tastes. That is all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who don't like Taylor Swift writing an entire tretise on why she's not any good -- all you have to do is not like her music. Period, then end. People who like her music aren't "wrong" just because you don't like it. You will never find the right "reason" that someone shouldn't like music that you don't like. People have different tastes. That is all.

Exactly. And unless you’re a musician, you have little to no leg to stand on when saying someone’s music/voice/etc are subpar. If you don’t play music, just be grateful people provide it to you and ignore the music you don’t like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a minute: PP is arguing that TS is writing immature music, but is comparing her to Like a Virgin, which literally is about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman?

Oh wow, this is embarrassing for you.

Is it not?

Think hard about why a virgin would sing a song about feeling "like" a virgin.

It can be interpreted multiple ways:

According to Rooksby, the song can be interpreted in many different ways: actual virgins are encouraged to hold their compose before their first sexual encounter; in the case of men and more sexually experienced women, however, the lyrics talk about how they can re-live the feelings of their first sexual encounter.[8]

You can interpret it that way if you want but the comment was that it is "literally about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman" when the song was "literally" written by two middle aged men about what it feels like to to be with someone who makes you feel new after having lots of negative experiences in the past. That the literal interpretation (and also actual interpretation of the people who wrote it and the person who made it famous).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a minute: PP is arguing that TS is writing immature music, but is comparing her to Like a Virgin, which literally is about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman?

Oh wow, this is embarrassing for you.

Is it not?

Think hard about why a virgin would sing a song about feeling "like" a virgin.

It can be interpreted multiple ways:

According to Rooksby, the song can be interpreted in many different ways: actual virgins are encouraged to hold their compose before their first sexual encounter; in the case of men and more sexually experienced women, however, the lyrics talk about how they can re-live the feelings of their first sexual encounter.[8]

You can interpret it that way if you want but the comment was that it is "literally about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman" when the song was "literally" written by two middle aged men about what it feels like to to be with someone who makes you feel new after having lots of negative experiences in the past. That the literal interpretation (and also actual interpretation of the people who wrote it and the person who made it famous).

Songs can be interpreted in a lot of ways, often well beyond what the writers intended.

[Anonymous]

The people hating TS are the same ones complaining about Lizzo’s flute and concert attire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Pop music isn’t supposed to have relevance for old people, so it’s no surprise that you don’t see the relevance. It isn’t meant for you.

I'm the PP who cited madonna and janet cultural impact. Its cute that you think everyone commenting on an entertainment forum is some kind of octagenarian. There are only two years seperating me and taylor swift , carry on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Pop music isn’t supposed to have relevance for old people, so it’s no surprise that you don’t see the relevance. It isn’t meant for you.

I'm the PP who cited madonna and janet cultural impact. Its cute that you think everyone commenting on an entertainment forum is some kind of octagenarian. There are only two years seperating me and taylor swift , carry on.

Taylor Swift is making music primarily for people younger than her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Pop music isn’t supposed to have relevance for old people, so it’s no surprise that you don’t see the relevance. It isn’t meant for you.

I'm the PP who cited madonna and janet cultural impact. Its cute that you think everyone commenting on an entertainment forum is some kind of octagenarian. There are only two years seperating me and taylor swift , carry on.

Taylor Swift is making music primarily for people younger than her.

This isn't the clever argument you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The people hating TS are the same ones complaining about Lizzo’s flute and concert attire.

Yes, and the unhinged Meghan Markle haters. They are all the same.

[Anonymous]

idk how you can write the lyrics on her last two albums off as teenage musings. take a look at the lyrics to happiness or hoax. maybe pp is confused because taylor has rereleased two albums she wrote when she was much younger (fearless and red).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Pop music isn’t supposed to have relevance for old people, so it’s no surprise that you don’t see the relevance. It isn’t meant for you.

I'm the PP who cited madonna and janet cultural impact. Its cute that you think everyone commenting on an entertainment forum is some kind of octagenarian. There are only two years seperating me and taylor swift , carry on.

Taylor Swift is making music primarily for people younger than her.

This isn't the clever argument you think it is.

I don’t think it’s clever; I think it’s a fact. Her target demographic is girls/women aged about 13-25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people hating TS are the same ones complaining about Lizzo’s flute and concert attire.

Yes, and the unhinged Meghan Markle haters. They are all the same.

yes and decent overlap with trumpeteers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people hating TS are the same ones complaining about Lizzo’s flute and concert attire.

Yes, and the unhinged Meghan Markle haters. They are all the same.

yes and decent overlap with trumpeteers

Another Democrat litmus test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Pop music isn’t supposed to have relevance for old people, so it’s no surprise that you don’t see the relevance. It isn’t meant for you.

I'm the PP who cited madonna and janet cultural impact. Its cute that you think everyone commenting on an entertainment forum is some kind of octagenarian. There are only two years seperating me and taylor swift , carry on.

Two different eras. Madonna is more a performer than singer-songwriter. Taylor is more singer-songwriter. Both are titans of pop music. I, too, enjoy Madonna’s greatest hits and watched her taped concerts more times than I’d care to admit. However, I never really listened beyond those singles. I would be interested in your top 10 deep cuts (ie not singles). Care to share?