Taylor Swift is awful (and her music isn't even very good)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so weird how someone who says he hates TS seems to know more about TS than anyone else in this thread. Weirdo stalker.

Hmmm, listening to Taylor Swift's music (and disliking it) and being familiar with her public persona = weird stalker.

Breathlessly reporting on Taylor Swift's relationships with Dave Grohl and Paul McCartney and providing detailed accounts of what Taylor may or may not have done at a private party at Paul McCartney's house that you definitely did not attend = normal.

Gotcha.

Huh?

Oh, of course that supposed “gotcha” makes no sense, but OP is like the deranged Meghan Markle haters. You can’t expect logic from people like that. You just have to metaphorically pat them gently on the head. They’ve gone around an unrecoverable bend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Pop music isn’t supposed to have relevance for old people, so it’s no surprise that you don’t see the relevance. It isn’t meant for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Rhythm Nation and Like a Virgin appear to have had a greater cultural impact because you were alive back then. Just like your parents would disagree with you and point to the Beatles.

[Anonymous]

Wait a minute: PP is arguing that TS is writing immature music, but is comparing her to Like a Virgin, which literally is about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s so weird how someone who says he hates TS seems to know more about TS than anyone else in this thread. Weirdo stalker.

Hmmm, listening to Taylor Swift's music (and disliking it) and being familiar with her public persona = weird stalker.

Breathlessly reporting on Taylor Swift's relationships with Dave Grohl and Paul McCartney and providing detailed accounts of what Taylor may or may not have done at a private party at Paul McCartney's house that you definitely did not attend = normal.

Gotcha.

Huh?

Oh, of course that supposed “gotcha” makes no sense, but OP is like the deranged Meghan Markle haters. You can’t expect logic from people like that. You just have to metaphorically pat them gently on the head. They’ve gone around an unrecoverable bend.

That’s a great analogy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all I need to see in an article to know that the author has an agenda:

“She preaches female friendship but would never risk album sales with overtly feminist activity.”

I think it's a reference to the fact that Swift has been very mum on most major feminist issues, including abortion. She also didn't say much of anything against Trump until like 2020, which is... late.

She has become a bit more political in recent years but is still super cautious. Like she she has supported the March for Our Lives, and has made some comments in support of both the LGBTQ+ community and eventually did denounce Trump and said she supported the protests that broke out after George Floyd's murder. Which is all good but still not overtly feminist.

But she's most likely to invoke feminism when it concerns something that directly involves her. I was glad to see she at least came out against the Supreme Court overturning Roe but honestly, until then I suspected she was not pro-choice because she had been weirdly mum on the subject for such a prominent woman with so many fans who are directly impacted by the loss of abortion access.

That article is a little dated and I think pre-dates a lot of the the things I've mentioned here. Perhaps she's become more vocal due to this kind of criticism. But even that seems cynical. Most people if given a massive platform would want to speak out on issues that are important to them. Instead it feels like Taylor mostly speaks to advocate for herself and wants people to view her as an avatar for all women. But that's very different than how many other celebrities use their fame to draw attention to people who are much less fortunate than them and rally support for issues or programs that don't necessarily stand to benefit them personally.

I don't disagree with what you said . But, i feel like all these years , it seems people like you have missed the point : A huge part of her success is precisely tied to her lack of activism—something to which a lot of her fans will never admit. Look at her , what exactly is so unique ? Nothing. She looks like every other sorority girl who values her worth by whether or not she has a boyfriend, her music sounds creepily childish and vapid. This isn't the 80s when the likes of Janet Jackson and Madonna burst unto the scene with aesthetics, music and personas that were completely different .

Swift doesn't sell music as much as she sells perpetually wronged ingenue white girl victimhood coupled with that lack of activism. So, her invocation of feminism only when it involves HER interest(s) should come as a surprise to anyone who has taken the time to know this country. That mindset is what led to the term: White feminism. Does it say something about her? or does it say a lot about that faction of white America that comprises 98% of her fan base .

Could not agree more and I do in fact think it's awful. And it makes me dislike both Taylor Swift AND her rabid fan base.

The contrast with performers like Madonna and Janet is a good one. I can't think of a single Taylor Swift song or album that has the cultural relevance or import of, say, Rhythm Nation or Like a Virgin. I also compare Swift to contemporaries like Katy Perry and Nicki Minaj and it's obvious to me who is doing more interesting and long-lasting work. I think it's interesting that all of these other women have explored the power dynamics of feminine sexuality in their music, to fascinating effect, and Swift is still writing the same shlock about how she has a crush on a boy that she wrote at 16. Serious arrested development.

Rhythm Nation and Like a Virgin appear to have had a greater cultural impact because you were alive back then. Just like your parents would disagree with you and point to the Beatles.

I was not alive when the Beatles were a band and released all their music and I agree with Boomers that the Beatles had enormous cultural impact. Also, my Boomer parents actively dislike music like Madonna and Janet Jackson but they would absolutely agree that these artists had large cultural relevancy and impact.

Taylor Swift is not doing interesting things with music nor is the meaning of her music particularly interesting or groundbreaking. And you haven't addressed the comparisons to someone like Nicki Minaj, who is a contemporary of Swift. While Swift appeals to a very specific and narrow audience by giving them the exact same (comforting, validating) thing over and over again, other artists working right now are making music with broader appeal that also has more to say and challenges norms more. Swift's cultural impact is null. She's sold a lot of records that will have absolutely no significance past their time on sales charts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait a minute: PP is arguing that TS is writing immature music, but is comparing her to Like a Virgin, which literally is about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman?

Oh wow, this is embarrassing for you.

[Anonymous]

I can see how someone who has only heard the radio singles would be confused by Taylor’s success and her rabid fan base. She has a habit of releasing some of her worst songs as singles. Me, Bad Blood, You Need to Calm Down, Look What You Made Me Do, Ready for It, and even Shake It Off. You need to go beyond those tracks to understand why she has so many fans and industry accolades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the crap other people have written but I admire her. She's made it this far without being a total train wreck like Madonna/Britney/etc.

Please do tell. How's Madonna a train wreck? As an aside , madonna's music is way way way better than swift's music and she has the records sales to prove it .

I don’t know that Madonna is a train wreck but how anyone could enjoy her music—with the single exception of Ray of Light—has always been beyond me. If you are one of the folks hating on Taylor Swift and you are citing Madonna as an example of better music, I hope you are doing your family and friends a favor and only listening to music while you are alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a minute: PP is arguing that TS is writing immature music, but is comparing her to Like a Virgin, which literally is about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman?

Oh wow, this is embarrassing for you.

Is it not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can see how someone who has only heard the radio singles would be confused by Taylor’s success and her rabid fan base. She has a habit of releasing some of her worst songs as singles. Me, Bad Blood, You Need to Calm Down, Look What You Made Me Do, Ready for It, and even Shake It Off. You need to go beyond those tracks to understand why she has so many fans and industry accolades.

But at least some of those songs are catchy (namely Bad Blood and Shake It Off), I've listened to her other music and it feels sooooo trite to me. It just sounds like someone who has never been in love and never struggled in life, writing about falling in love and struggling in life. Even when the music is decent, the lyrics are such a sticking point for me.

I actually can imagine a parallel universe where she creates more meaningful and frankly better music by being willing to work with lyrical collaborators more frequently. I think she created this brand early on as a young woman writing love songs from the perspective of a teenage girl, but instead of growing and evolving, she's stuck with that and it doesn't ring true to me at all. The more I learn of her personal life (information I don't go looking for, it shows up in headlines I come across online by accident) the more ridiculous it sounds. She's in her 30s? It really seems like she is emotionally immature and since she "writes from the heart" it makes her music quite immature as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a minute: PP is arguing that TS is writing immature music, but is comparing her to Like a Virgin, which literally is about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman?

Oh wow, this is embarrassing for you.

Is it not?

Think hard about why a virgin would sing a song about feeling "like" a virgin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a minute: PP is arguing that TS is writing immature music, but is comparing her to Like a Virgin, which literally is about the sexual awakening of a virginal woman?

Oh wow, this is embarrassing for you.

Is it not?

Think hard about why a virgin would sing a song about feeling "like" a virgin.

It can be interpreted multiple ways:

According to Rooksby, the song can be interpreted in many different ways: actual virgins are encouraged to hold their compose before their first sexual encounter; in the case of men and more sexually experienced women, however, the lyrics talk about how they can re-live the feelings of their first sexual encounter.[8]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the crap other people have written but I admire her. She's made it this far without being a total train wreck like Madonna/Britney/etc.

Please do tell. How's Madonna a train wreck? As an aside , madonna's music is way way way better than swift's music and she has the records sales to prove it .

I don’t know that Madonna is a train wreck but how anyone could enjoy her music—with the single exception of Ray of Light—has always been beyond me. If you are one of the folks hating on Taylor Swift and you are citing Madonna as an example of better music, I hope you are doing your family and friends a favor and only listening to music while you are alone.

Justify My Love
Cherish
Vogue
Into the Groove
Like a Prayer
Live to Tell
Open Your Heart
Me Against the Music
Love Don't Live Here Anymore
Express Yourself
Crazy For You
Holiday
Take a Bow
Borderline

... I could go on but if you don't like any of this, I hate to break it to you, but a lot of Taylor's highest charting songs owe a lot of their DNA to stuff Madonna did in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. And she did it producing her own music, writing many of her songs, and with enormous creative control over her image, costumes, tours, videos, etc. Before Madonna (and even often after) female performers rarely had much control over their careers and were often exploited by record companies and managers. And she did all this on her own as a young performer in her early 20s in New York with no money or backing. Madonna is an OG and if you think that Taylor Swift of all people doesn't understand that she owes a lot of her career to trails blazed by Madonna and her contemporaries, you are crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the crap other people have written but I admire her. She's made it this far without being a total train wreck like Madonna/Britney/etc.

Please do tell. How's Madonna a train wreck? As an aside , madonna's music is way way way better than swift's music and she has the records sales to prove it .

I don’t know that Madonna is a train wreck but how anyone could enjoy her music—with the single exception of Ray of Light—has always been beyond me. If you are one of the folks hating on Taylor Swift and you are citing Madonna as an example of better music, I hope you are doing your family and friends a favor and only listening to music while you are alone.

Justify My Love
Cherish
Vogue
Into the Groove
Like a Prayer
Live to Tell
Open Your Heart
Me Against the Music
Love Don't Live Here Anymore
Express Yourself
Crazy For You
Holiday
Take a Bow
Borderline

... I could go on but if you don't like any of this, I hate to break it to you, but a lot of Taylor's highest charting songs owe a lot of their DNA to stuff Madonna did in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. And she did it producing her own music, writing many of her songs, and with enormous creative control over her image, costumes, tours, videos, etc. Before Madonna (and even often after) female performers rarely had much control over their careers and were often exploited by record companies and managers. And she did all this on her own as a young performer in her early 20s in New York with no money or backing. Madonna is an OG and if you think that Taylor Swift of all people doesn't understand that she owes a lot of her career to trails blazed by Madonna and her contemporaries, you are crazy.

She did not write most of her biggest hits.