APS Transgender Policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Yep, just like it’s really important for Muslims to denounce terrorism constantly? That’s how society should work right? If anyone with the same view on an issue is a jerk, then dismiss any logical arguments about that issue as being brought by jerks and so do not listen or think about it. Stop labeling and dismissing everyone. Think harder than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone please answer why we can't just get rid of the word gender and go by biological sex? You can be a feminine male or masculine female, people can dress how they choose, and go by whatever name they want, but when it comes to sports, locker rooms, roommate assignments, etc. Just go by biological sex.

Umm because the whole issue is about whether to go by gender identity or biological sex in those specific instances you named? And because trans people are going to be singled out and made to feel excluded?

So what if a male wants to dress or act in a traditionally feminine way? I don't care. I do care, though, if that male who has had the benefit of testosterone since before birth want to compete against my daughter who has been training for years with a female body. No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone please answer why we can't just get rid of the word gender and go by biological sex? You can be a feminine male or masculine female, people can dress how they choose, and go by whatever name they want, but when it comes to sports, locker rooms, roommate assignments, etc. Just go by biological sex.

Umm because the whole issue is about whether to go by gender identity or biological sex in those specific instances you named? And because trans people are going to be singled out and made to feel excluded?

So what if a male wants to dress or act in a traditionally feminine way? I don't care. I do care, though, if that male who has had the benefit of testosterone since before birth want to compete against my daughter who has been training for years with a female body. No way.

I’m with you on the sports. But PP’s question about how come no one has answered about the ingenious solution of going back to biological sex is stupid. It’s not that simple and no not everyone wants to do that. That’s the debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Yep, just like it’s really important for Muslims to denounce terrorism constantly? That’s how society should work right? If anyone with the same view on an issue is a jerk, then dismiss any logical arguments about that issue as being brought by jerks and so do not listen or think about it. Stop labeling and dismissing everyone. Think harder than that.

No, your analogy is sloppy. You are arguing against a policy for a valid reason. A number of people are arguing against that same policy for overtly bigoted reasons. If you want people to take your argument seriously, make clear that you’re not one of the bigots. Otherwise you lose all credibility. That’s totally your choice, but people will assume your sports justification is just a pretext for your own bigotry if you choose not to distance yourself from the anti-trans crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone please answer why we can't just get rid of the word gender and go by biological sex? You can be a feminine male or masculine female, people can dress how they choose, and go by whatever name they want, but when it comes to sports, locker rooms, roommate assignments, etc. Just go by biological sex.

+1.

That's how all civilized countries do it.

But we are better, you know?

[Anonymous]

Let's stop pretending that simply being a cis female is some level athletic playing field. Among cis gendered women, there is enormous physiological variation, the result of which is that some cis women have an inherent advantage over other cis women in any given sport, and no matter how much they want it and how hard they train, they won't be competitive with a more biologically advantaged cis woman. So even if we define "women" to mean only cis females, we still have to deal with some women having biological advantages over others, and that's something we accept pretty much without controversy. After all, I don't recall ever seeing a thread here advocating for elite runners to be split into different groups based on height to make it "fair."

What this means is that the issue of transgender athletes really comes down to whether you think a transgender woman is a woman or not. If you do believe that trans women are women, then all allowing them to compete with women does is expand the wide range of physical variation that already exists a bit more (and it's not like all trans women will be clustered at the advantaged end of the spectrum, because most trans women simply aren't competitive with elite female athletes). But if you reject the notion that trans women are women and instead believe that they are still men, then yes, I can understand why you'd reject the idea of trans women competing with women. But that's not about athletics, it's because you reject transgenderism itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's stop pretending that simply being a cis female is some level athletic playing field. Among cis gendered women, there is enormous physiological variation, the result of which is that some cis women have an inherent advantage over other cis women in any given sport, and no matter how much they want it and how hard they train, they won't be competitive with a more biologically advantaged cis woman. So even if we define "women" to mean only cis females, we still have to deal with some women having biological advantages over others, and that's something we accept pretty much without controversy. After all, I don't recall ever seeing a thread here advocating for elite runners to be split into different groups based on height to make it "fair."

What this means is that the issue of transgender athletes really comes down to whether you think a transgender woman is a woman or not. If you do believe that trans women are women, then all allowing them to compete with women does is expand the wide range of physical variation that already exists a bit more (and it's not like all trans women will be clustered at the advantaged end of the spectrum, because most trans women simply aren't competitive with elite female athletes). But if you reject the notion that trans women are women and instead believe that they are still men, then yes, I can understand why you'd reject the idea of trans women competing with women. But that's not about athletics, it's because you reject transgenderism itself.

It is not one extreme or the other.

You can respect the rights of every kid to lead the live he or she desires, including being generous and accomodating in some areas in a variety of ways (trans are not the only people with problems), AND at the same time recognize biological facts in areas where biological facts DO play a major role (for example sports).

Someone said "Your rights end where mine begin."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's stop pretending that simply being a cis female is some level athletic playing field. Among cis gendered women, there is enormous physiological variation, the result of which is that some cis women have an inherent advantage over other cis women in any given sport, and no matter how much they want it and how hard they train, they won't be competitive with a more biologically advantaged cis woman. So even if we define "women" to mean only cis females, we still have to deal with some women having biological advantages over others, and that's something we accept pretty much without controversy. After all, I don't recall ever seeing a thread here advocating for elite runners to be split into different groups based on height to make it "fair."

What this means is that the issue of transgender athletes really comes down to whether you think a transgender woman is a woman or not. If you do believe that trans women are women, then all allowing them to compete with women does is expand the wide range of physical variation that already exists a bit more (and it's not like all trans women will be clustered at the advantaged end of the spectrum, because most trans women simply aren't competitive with elite female athletes). But if you reject the notion that trans women are women and instead believe that they are still men, then yes, I can understand why you'd reject the idea of trans women competing with women. But that's not about athletics, it's because you reject transgenderism itself.

I reject the idea that someone can declare themselves to be a woman. I support their right to live peacefully, to be educated, to work, to marry, to have housing, to have healthcare and so on. But no, I do not think a transwoman is a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's stop pretending that simply being a cis female is some level athletic playing field. Among cis gendered women, there is enormous physiological variation, the result of which is that some cis women have an inherent advantage over other cis women in any given sport, and no matter how much they want it and how hard they train, they won't be competitive with a more biologically advantaged cis woman. So even if we define "women" to mean only cis females, we still have to deal with some women having biological advantages over others, and that's something we accept pretty much without controversy. After all, I don't recall ever seeing a thread here advocating for elite runners to be split into different groups based on height to make it "fair."

What this means is that the issue of transgender athletes really comes down to whether you think a transgender woman is a woman or not. If you do believe that trans women are women, then all allowing them to compete with women does is expand the wide range of physical variation that already exists a bit more (and it's not like all trans women will be clustered at the advantaged end of the spectrum, because most trans women simply aren't competitive with elite female athletes). But if you reject the notion that trans women are women and instead believe that they are still men, then yes, I can understand why you'd reject the idea of trans women competing with women. But that's not about athletics, it's because you reject transgenderism itself.

I reject the idea that someone can declare themselves to be a woman. I support their right to live peacefully, to be educated, to work, to marry, to have housing, to have healthcare and so on. But no, I do not think a transwoman is a woman.

So it's not really about athletics for you, its that you reject transgenderism and athletics is just a pretext for expressing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's now a non-transparent APS parent group that has been created to fight this policy.
https://arlingtonparentcoa.wixsite.com/arlingtonparentcoa?fbclid=IwAR0yqhdaEcHTRW8RzUcnxPuiF_FEogCHPiS-CKAwukT-KtC0rpCmB8za4t0

That is disgusting.

How is that “disgusting”? I think it’s important for parents to ensure that their voices are heard. Otherwise it will be like Fairfax County, where changes like using the phrase “gender assigned at birth” were rammed through, despite 80% of the public comments being opposed to it. Hopefully Arlington parents will get more of a say.

Then they should put their names to it. Right now they’re hiding behind that website like a bunch of cowards and yet laughably still expect the school board to take them seriously,

This. I’d be more inclined to listen if I knew it was more than one person. I have 1 neighbor whose kids don’t even go to the APS elementary names in that website who is always stirring up concern and asking to be heard on NextDoor. Then 19/20 people tell her to go pound sand and that we don’t want to hear her anti-trans or anti-feminist or anti-LGBTQ views and she says something like “thanks for your inputs - I also got lots of PMs that support me.” And I think it’s BS. I don’t think people are just scared to be publicly anti-trans and anti-inclusion. I think this website is a front that is really 1-3 people trying to look important or influential and I don’t buy it. I hope the school board doesn’t buy it either. Let’s see this group show up at a meeting with some matching t-shirts - this is APS afterall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

The group's own website refers to transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder, likens allowing children to express as trans to eugenics, etc. They are anti-trans. If was really just about not wanting parents excluded from those discussions, the website would focus on that rather than providing all kids of supposed "evidence" about why transgenderism is a threat to kids' well-being.

[Anonymous]

We are in FCPS and went through all this years ago and the biggest issue I had was the logistics of all of this with locker rooms. Do I want my daughters changing with a male? No. Even if that male feels a female, he is still a male with male parts in a locker room full of girls and it's not fair to make all of those girls deal with it for that one boy. But, there is no solution. The male feels like he has a right to be in the female locker room and it's discrimination if he's asked to use another one. Or, the girls who aren't cool with it are forced to ask for another space. There are no good answers. This applies to both PE class and athletics, of which both situations are happening in the county.