APS Transgender Policy

[Anonymous]

A friend of mine pulled her kids out of FCS because of their trans policy. She just didn't want her girls changing their clothes and going to the bathroom with folks who have outies and not innies. It's not the call I would make (I don't care) but she didn't want her girls to see locker room penis. I questioned how much locker room penis her girls would really see in average school year but she said once would be enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine pulled her kids out of FCS because of their trans policy. She just didn't want her girls changing their clothes and going to the bathroom with folks who have outies and not innies. It's not the call I would make (I don't care) but she didn't want her girls to see locker room penis. I questioned how much locker room penis her girls would really see in average school year but she said once would be enough.

Sounds like a real twat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Let's consider who is most likely to be bullied or have violent action taken against them. (HINT: it's not the cis-gendered kids.) If you look at the APS recs, it's not a call for "integrating" into locker rooms, but instead, asking for a neutral place to change that is reasonably convenient to the gym/pool facilities. Right now, many kids are forced to change in a supply closet or the teacher's office, which is not really acceptable.

Same for bathrooms - many kids have a different appearance between their sex and gender, and are policed heavily about where to pee. (This is especially true with non-binary kids). However, they are often asked to use one building, often the clinic, which may be in use, or so far away in the building that they are late for class, or get flack for having to go to the bathroom in the middle of class.

For, for trains and NB kids, it's damned if you and damned if you don't - try to integrate by the way you presented, and everyone starts getting panicked that you might do something untoward or someone else might see an offending body part. Ask for a neutral place that anyone can use, and you're special snowflake placing undue burden on the school system.

That's the issue...there isn't space. These schools don't have gender neutral choices and they aren't going to spend millions of dollars to create them. Even the locker rooms themselves don't have many "private" areas that are conducive to getting dressed quickly.


There is if you want it to be.

So, my kid is non-binary, and it's getting to be a damn big deal for them to find a toilet that someone does not feel the need to tell them that they can't use. Going to pee is a huge hassle, largely because they present as male or female and some kid or teacher needs to tell them that they can't do in their assigned at birth sex toilet. (I am about to the point to tell them to pull down their pants to prove that they are eligible for their bathroom. it's that bad.)

So, I looked at my school, and there are a whole hell of a lot of bathrooms. Hey, you could designate one bathroom on each floor for unisex by taking out the urinals and calming the hyperactive parents (there are tons of other options if you don't want to use a unisex). Problem solved, right? Nope.

I proposed a bunch of other options, with little or no cost to the county, all negged. Largely because some people would get upset over optics. Meanwhile, my androgynous kid is going a potty dance because elementary school teachers (yes, we start young) cannot wrap their heads around the fact that gendered appearance does not match gender.

This isn't about sports and school trips. This is daily life. This not being treated like a freak when you want to just do the baseline. Does anyone want to get behind that, or dwell on who might see whose peepee in the locker room?


Again, there is no real solution to any of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

The group's own website refers to transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder, likens allowing children to express as trans to eugenics, etc. They are anti-trans. If was really just about not wanting parents excluded from those discussions, the website would focus on that rather than providing all kids of supposed "evidence" about why transgenderism is a threat to kids' well-being.

For most trans kids with zero biological substrate to support the trans desire IT IS a psychiatric disorder.

Same if right now I felt a deep urge to become Asian American and started to "treat" my body to become one.

At some point the FDA will have to come clean and explain how much physical and mental health is being harmed by unproven treatments and unscientific "diagnostics."

Just like hysteria was considered a disorder. Sounds like you need to see a psychiatrist, PP.

The FDA never regulated hysteria, smartass. It does regulate supposed hormone treatments. Go read a book before you say something stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine pulled her kids out of FCS because of their trans policy. She just didn't want her girls changing their clothes and going to the bathroom with folks who have outies and not innies. It's not the call I would make (I don't care) but she didn't want her girls to see locker room penis. I questioned how much locker room penis her girls would really see in average school year but she said once would be enough.

Sounds like a real twat.

No, it sounds like a person who made a choice for her family, and whether agree with it or not, it was her choice to make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Let's consider who is most likely to be bullied or have violent action taken against them. (HINT: it's not the cis-gendered kids.) If you look at the APS recs, it's not a call for "integrating" into locker rooms, but instead, asking for a neutral place to change that is reasonably convenient to the gym/pool facilities. Right now, many kids are forced to change in a supply closet or the teacher's office, which is not really acceptable.

Same for bathrooms - many kids have a different appearance between their sex and gender, and are policed heavily about where to pee. (This is especially true with non-binary kids). However, they are often asked to use one building, often the clinic, which may be in use, or so far away in the building that they are late for class, or get flack for having to go to the bathroom in the middle of class.

For, for trains and NB kids, it's damned if you and damned if you don't - try to integrate by the way you presented, and everyone starts getting panicked that you might do something untoward or someone else might see an offending body part. Ask for a neutral place that anyone can use, and you're special snowflake placing undue burden on the school system.

That's the issue...there isn't space. These schools don't have gender neutral choices and they aren't going to spend millions of dollars to create them. Even the locker rooms themselves don't have many "private" areas that are conducive to getting dressed quickly.


There is if you want it to be.

So, my kid is non-binary, and it's getting to be a damn big deal for them to find a toilet that someone does not feel the need to tell them that they can't use. Going to pee is a huge hassle, largely because they present as male or female and some kid or teacher needs to tell them that they can't do in their assigned at birth sex toilet. (I am about to the point to tell them to pull down their pants to prove that they are eligible for their bathroom. it's that bad.)

So, I looked at my school, and there are a whole hell of a lot of bathrooms. Hey, you could designate one bathroom on each floor for unisex by taking out the urinals and calming the hyperactive parents (there are tons of other options if you don't want to use a unisex). Problem solved, right? Nope.

I proposed a bunch of other options, with little or no cost to the county, all negged. Largely because some people would get upset over optics. Meanwhile, my androgynous kid is going a potty dance because elementary school teachers (yes, we start young) cannot wrap their heads around the fact that gendered appearance does not match gender.

This isn't about sports and school trips. This is daily life. This not being treated like a freak when you want to just do the baseline. Does anyone want to get behind that, or dwell on who might see whose peepee in the locker room?


Again, there is no real solution to any of this.

Is this in APS?

[Anonymous]

I'm curious about your all's gym experiences.

I sure as hell didn't get butt naked in the locker room. everyone kind of gets dressed by facing a wall and doing fancy maneuvers to get dressed by exposing as little as possible.


I'd be equally as concerned if I heard a cis female was walking around the locker room total naked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine pulled her kids out of FCS because of their trans policy. She just didn't want her girls changing their clothes and going to the bathroom with folks who have outies and not innies. It's not the call I would make (I don't care) but she didn't want her girls to see locker room penis. I questioned how much locker room penis her girls would really see in average school year but she said once would be enough.

Sounds like a real twat.

No, it sounds like a person who made a choice for her family, and whether agree with it or not, it was her choice to make.

Exactly. She made a choice. She wasn't mean, she didn't protest, and she's not anti-anything. And she certainly wasn't going to stand in the way of anyone using whatever locker room/bathroom they want. So, she made the change and she's not at all upset by it.

[Anonymous]

And I also don't pee with the door open.

If you do it the same way everyone else does you're not going to see anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Let's consider who is most likely to be bullied or have violent action taken against them. (HINT: it's not the cis-gendered kids.) If you look at the APS recs, it's not a call for "integrating" into locker rooms, but instead, asking for a neutral place to change that is reasonably convenient to the gym/pool facilities. Right now, many kids are forced to change in a supply closet or the teacher's office, which is not really acceptable.

Same for bathrooms - many kids have a different appearance between their sex and gender, and are policed heavily about where to pee. (This is especially true with non-binary kids). However, they are often asked to use one building, often the clinic, which may be in use, or so far away in the building that they are late for class, or get flack for having to go to the bathroom in the middle of class.

For, for trains and NB kids, it's damned if you and damned if you don't - try to integrate by the way you presented, and everyone starts getting panicked that you might do something untoward or someone else might see an offending body part. Ask for a neutral place that anyone can use, and you're special snowflake placing undue burden on the school system.

That's the issue...there isn't space. These schools don't have gender neutral choices and they aren't going to spend millions of dollars to create them. Even the locker rooms themselves don't have many "private" areas that are conducive to getting dressed quickly.


There is if you want it to be.

So, my kid is non-binary, and it's getting to be a damn big deal for them to find a toilet that someone does not feel the need to tell them that they can't use. Going to pee is a huge hassle, largely because they present as male or female and some kid or teacher needs to tell them that they can't do in their assigned at birth sex toilet. (I am about to the point to tell them to pull down their pants to prove that they are eligible for their bathroom. it's that bad.)

So, I looked at my school, and there are a whole hell of a lot of bathrooms. Hey, you could designate one bathroom on each floor for unisex by taking out the urinals and calming the hyperactive parents (there are tons of other options if you don't want to use a unisex). Problem solved, right? Nope.

I proposed a bunch of other options, with little or no cost to the county, all negged. Largely because some people would get upset over optics. Meanwhile, my androgynous kid is going a potty dance because elementary school teachers (yes, we start young) cannot wrap their heads around the fact that gendered appearance does not match gender.

This isn't about sports and school trips. This is daily life. This not being treated like a freak when you want to just do the baseline. Does anyone want to get behind that, or dwell on who might see whose peepee in the locker room?


Again, there is no real solution to any of this.

This seems reasonable. Why was this one shot down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Not the PP you're referring to, but I don't consider Stalin parallels "decent" conversation, you know?

[Anonymous]

As a person thinking about this issue, lots of good discussion here. What I do find concerning is the poster who keeps shooting down poster as “anti-trans.” To me, that is the kind of if you are not with me, you are against me attitude. Too black and white. Just like people can be in a gender spectrum, Some of us are really thinking and trying to figure this out for ourselves. I tend to be more “pro-trans” because I know a little boy who decided he was a girl. Parents went with it and I am cool with that. At 5, not too many issues, but there will be as she gets older. With that, I am really thinking. I am going to question things, and my opinion may move along a continuum as well. Don’t call me anti-trans and shut down the conversation. Dogmatic advocacy will lose potential allies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Let's consider who is most likely to be bullied or have violent action taken against them. (HINT: it's not the cis-gendered kids.) If you look at the APS recs, it's not a call for "integrating" into locker rooms, but instead, asking for a neutral place to change that is reasonably convenient to the gym/pool facilities. Right now, many kids are forced to change in a supply closet or the teacher's office, which is not really acceptable.

Same for bathrooms - many kids have a different appearance between their sex and gender, and are policed heavily about where to pee. (This is especially true with non-binary kids). However, they are often asked to use one building, often the clinic, which may be in use, or so far away in the building that they are late for class, or get flack for having to go to the bathroom in the middle of class.

For, for trains and NB kids, it's damned if you and damned if you don't - try to integrate by the way you presented, and everyone starts getting panicked that you might do something untoward or someone else might see an offending body part. Ask for a neutral place that anyone can use, and you're special snowflake placing undue burden on the school system.

That's the issue...there isn't space. These schools don't have gender neutral choices and they aren't going to spend millions of dollars to create them. Even the locker rooms themselves don't have many "private" areas that are conducive to getting dressed quickly.


There is if you want it to be.

So, my kid is non-binary, and it's getting to be a damn big deal for them to find a toilet that someone does not feel the need to tell them that they can't use. Going to pee is a huge hassle, largely because they present as male or female and some kid or teacher needs to tell them that they can't do in their assigned at birth sex toilet. (I am about to the point to tell them to pull down their pants to prove that they are eligible for their bathroom. it's that bad.)

So, I looked at my school, and there are a whole hell of a lot of bathrooms. Hey, you could designate one bathroom on each floor for unisex by taking out the urinals and calming the hyperactive parents (there are tons of other options if you don't want to use a unisex). Problem solved, right? Nope.

I proposed a bunch of other options, with little or no cost to the county, all negged. Largely because some people would get upset over optics. Meanwhile, my androgynous kid is going a potty dance because elementary school teachers (yes, we start young) cannot wrap their heads around the fact that gendered appearance does not match gender.

This isn't about sports and school trips. This is daily life. This not being treated like a freak when you want to just do the baseline. Does anyone want to get behind that, or dwell on who might see whose peepee in the locker room?


Again, there is no real solution to any of this.

Please excuse my ignorance. I am trying to follow but so confused. You say that your child presents as a gendered appearance that does not match their sex but also appears androgynous? Aren’t those contradictory statements? I’m trying to understand the issue at hand here, not having a lot of experience with those who are non-binary.

[Anonymous]

This isn't about sports and school trips. This is daily life. This not being treated like a freak when you want to just do the baseline. Does anyone want to get behind that, or dwell on who might see whose peepee in the locker room?

The question is: what is the baseline? Is it being treated with respect or is it playing on the sports team?