APS Transgender Policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Not the PP you're referring to, but I don't consider Stalin parallels "decent" conversation, you know?

And that is an example of why I said "halfway decent conversation," you know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

The group's own website refers to transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder, likens allowing children to express as trans to eugenics, etc. They are anti-trans. If was really just about not wanting parents excluded from those discussions, the website would focus on that rather than providing all kids of supposed "evidence" about why transgenderism is a threat to kids' well-being.

For most trans kids with zero biological substrate to support the trans desire IT IS a psychiatric disorder.

Same if right now I felt a deep urge to become Asian American and started to "treat" my body to become one.

At some point the FDA will have to come clean and explain how much physical and mental health is being harmed by unproven treatments and unscientific "diagnostics."

Just like hysteria was considered a disorder. Sounds like you need to see a psychiatrist, PP.

The FDA never regulated hysteria, smartass. It does regulate supposed hormone treatments. Go read a book before you say something stupid.

Up until 1980, Hysteria was an official psychological disorder that could be found in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Seems like we have a case or two on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Let's consider who is most likely to be bullied or have violent action taken against them. (HINT: it's not the cis-gendered kids.) If you look at the APS recs, it's not a call for "integrating" into locker rooms, but instead, asking for a neutral place to change that is reasonably convenient to the gym/pool facilities. Right now, many kids are forced to change in a supply closet or the teacher's office, which is not really acceptable.

Same for bathrooms - many kids have a different appearance between their sex and gender, and are policed heavily about where to pee. (This is especially true with non-binary kids). However, they are often asked to use one building, often the clinic, which may be in use, or so far away in the building that they are late for class, or get flack for having to go to the bathroom in the middle of class.

For, for trains and NB kids, it's damned if you and damned if you don't - try to integrate by the way you presented, and everyone starts getting panicked that you might do something untoward or someone else might see an offending body part. Ask for a neutral place that anyone can use, and you're special snowflake placing undue burden on the school system.

That's the issue...there isn't space. These schools don't have gender neutral choices and they aren't going to spend millions of dollars to create them. Even the locker rooms themselves don't have many "private" areas that are conducive to getting dressed quickly.


There is if you want it to be.

So, my kid is non-binary, and it's getting to be a damn big deal for them to find a toilet that someone does not feel the need to tell them that they can't use. Going to pee is a huge hassle, largely because they present as male or female and some kid or teacher needs to tell them that they can't do in their assigned at birth sex toilet. (I am about to the point to tell them to pull down their pants to prove that they are eligible for their bathroom. it's that bad.)

So, I looked at my school, and there are a whole hell of a lot of bathrooms. Hey, you could designate one bathroom on each floor for unisex by taking out the urinals and calming the hyperactive parents (there are tons of other options if you don't want to use a unisex). Problem solved, right? Nope.

I proposed a bunch of other options, with little or no cost to the county, all negged. Largely because some people would get upset over optics. Meanwhile, my androgynous kid is going a potty dance because elementary school teachers (yes, we start young) cannot wrap their heads around the fact that gendered appearance does not match gender.

This isn't about sports and school trips. This is daily life. This not being treated like a freak when you want to just do the baseline. Does anyone want to get behind that, or dwell on who might see whose peepee in the locker room?


Again, there is no real solution to any of this.

This seems reasonable. Why was this one shot down?

Because fundamentalists are afraid of "reasonable."

They see that as the enemy. Either you accept whatever they are saying any given day of the week ... of you are doomed and anti-trans and racist and ....

(I recognize the thinking well because I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family and community)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a person thinking about this issue, lots of good discussion here. What I do find concerning is the poster who keeps shooting down poster as “anti-trans.” To me, that is the kind of if you are not with me, you are against me attitude. Too black and white. Just like people can be in a gender spectrum, Some of us are really thinking and trying to figure this out for ourselves. I tend to be more “pro-trans” because I know a little boy who decided he was a girl. Parents went with it and I am cool with that. At 5, not too many issues, but there will be as she gets older. With that, I am really thinking. I am going to question things, and my opinion may move along a continuum as well. Don’t call me anti-trans and shut down the conversation. Dogmatic advocacy will lose potential allies.

I have to admit that even growing up here (a pretty “liberal” place) I have almost no experience with transgender and non-binary. I’m trying to think about how I feel too, but I am confused by all of the terms and what they mean. I appreciate that this has been a more accepting discussion than over on AEM, where I can’t believe that poster was accused of being a distraction for bringing up a simple point. I’m learning a LOT. Thank you all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

The group's own website refers to transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder, likens allowing children to express as trans to eugenics, etc. They are anti-trans. If was really just about not wanting parents excluded from those discussions, the website would focus on that rather than providing all kids of supposed "evidence" about why transgenderism is a threat to kids' well-being.

For most trans kids with zero biological substrate to support the trans desire IT IS a psychiatric disorder.

Same if right now I felt a deep urge to become Asian American and started to "treat" my body to become one.

At some point the FDA will have to come clean and explain how much physical and mental health is being harmed by unproven treatments and unscientific "diagnostics."

Just like hysteria was considered a disorder. Sounds like you need to see a psychiatrist, PP.

The FDA never regulated hysteria, smartass. It does regulate supposed hormone treatments. Go read a book before you say something stupid.

Up until 1980, Hysteria was an official psychological disorder that could be found in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Seems like we have a case or two on here.

The FDA doesn't regulate DSM or APA.

You don't know much about science or medicine, do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Let's consider who is most likely to be bullied or have violent action taken against them. (HINT: it's not the cis-gendered kids.) If you look at the APS recs, it's not a call for "integrating" into locker rooms, but instead, asking for a neutral place to change that is reasonably convenient to the gym/pool facilities. Right now, many kids are forced to change in a supply closet or the teacher's office, which is not really acceptable.

Same for bathrooms - many kids have a different appearance between their sex and gender, and are policed heavily about where to pee. (This is especially true with non-binary kids). However, they are often asked to use one building, often the clinic, which may be in use, or so far away in the building that they are late for class, or get flack for having to go to the bathroom in the middle of class.

For, for trains and NB kids, it's damned if you and damned if you don't - try to integrate by the way you presented, and everyone starts getting panicked that you might do something untoward or someone else might see an offending body part. Ask for a neutral place that anyone can use, and you're special snowflake placing undue burden on the school system.

That's the issue...there isn't space. These schools don't have gender neutral choices and they aren't going to spend millions of dollars to create them. Even the locker rooms themselves don't have many "private" areas that are conducive to getting dressed quickly.


There is if you want it to be.

So, my kid is non-binary, and it's getting to be a damn big deal for them to find a toilet that someone does not feel the need to tell them that they can't use. Going to pee is a huge hassle, largely because they present as male or female and some kid or teacher needs to tell them that they can't do in their assigned at birth sex toilet. (I am about to the point to tell them to pull down their pants to prove that they are eligible for their bathroom. it's that bad.)

So, I looked at my school, and there are a whole hell of a lot of bathrooms. Hey, you could designate one bathroom on each floor for unisex by taking out the urinals and calming the hyperactive parents (there are tons of other options if you don't want to use a unisex). Problem solved, right? Nope.

I proposed a bunch of other options, with little or no cost to the county, all negged. Largely because some people would get upset over optics. Meanwhile, my androgynous kid is going a potty dance because elementary school teachers (yes, we start young) cannot wrap their heads around the fact that gendered appearance does not match gender.

This isn't about sports and school trips. This is daily life. This not being treated like a freak when you want to just do the baseline. Does anyone want to get behind that, or dwell on who might see whose peepee in the locker room?


Again, there is no real solution to any of this.

This seems reasonable. Why was this one shot down?

Because fundamentalists are afraid of "reasonable."

They see that as the enemy. Either you accept whatever they are saying any given day of the week ... of you are doomed and anti-trans and racist and ....

(I recognize the thinking well because I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family and community)

I was directing this question to the PP who mentioned. So, no random guesses please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Should we go back and see how many deplorable complained on this thread? Complain, complain, complain. And refuse to answer simple questions. That's not what I call a "halfway decent conversation".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Should we go back and see how many deplorable complained on this thread? Complain, complain, complain. And refuse to answer simple questions. That's not what I call a "halfway decent conversation".

You keep saying over and over again that people are refusing to answer simple questions. I don’t see that at all. I think you are the outlier here, and really need to stop being so combative. A lot of us who may be thinking about this for the first time are trying to work through our feelings, and the pitchforks aren’t helping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Should we go back and see how many deplorable complained on this thread? Complain, complain, complain. And refuse to answer simple questions. That's not what I call a "halfway decent conversation".

You keep saying over and over again that people are refusing to answer simple questions. I don’t see that at all. I think you are the outlier here, and really need to stop being so combative. A lot of us who may be thinking about this for the first time are trying to work through our feelings, and the pitchforks aren’t helping.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

The group's own website refers to transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder, likens allowing children to express as trans to eugenics, etc. They are anti-trans. If was really just about not wanting parents excluded from those discussions, the website would focus on that rather than providing all kids of supposed "evidence" about why transgenderism is a threat to kids' well-being.

For most trans kids with zero biological substrate to support the trans desire IT IS a psychiatric disorder.

Same if right now I felt a deep urge to become Asian American and started to "treat" my body to become one.

At some point the FDA will have to come clean and explain how much physical and mental health is being harmed by unproven treatments and unscientific "diagnostics."

Just like hysteria was considered a disorder. Sounds like you need to see a psychiatrist, PP.

The FDA never regulated hysteria, smartass. It does regulate supposed hormone treatments. Go read a book before you say something stupid.

Up until 1980, Hysteria was an official psychological disorder that could be found in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Seems like we have a case or two on here.

The FDA doesn't regulate DSM or APA.

You don't know much about science or medicine, do you?

Why are you trying to force the FDA into the discussion.

We are discussing your recent diagnosis: hysteria.

Try to stay on topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Should we go back and see how many deplorable complained on this thread? Complain, complain, complain. And refuse to answer simple questions. That's not what I call a "halfway decent conversation".

You keep saying over and over again that people are refusing to answer simple questions. I don’t see that at all. I think you are the outlier here, and really need to stop being so combative. A lot of us who may be thinking about this for the first time are trying to work through our feelings, and the pitchforks aren’t helping.

Go back and read the thread. Sooooo much whining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Should we go back and see how many deplorable complained on this thread? Complain, complain, complain. And refuse to answer simple questions. That's not what I call a "halfway decent conversation".

You keep saying over and over again that people are refusing to answer simple questions. I don’t see that at all. I think you are the outlier here, and really need to stop being so combative. A lot of us who may be thinking about this for the first time are trying to work through our feelings, and the pitchforks aren’t helping.

Go back and read the thread. Sooooo much whining.

And WTF is this: “They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.

We were having a halfway decent conversation without insulting each other until you came along. Go back to AEM.

Should we go back and see how many deplorable complained on this thread? Complain, complain, complain. And refuse to answer simple questions. That's not what I call a "halfway decent conversation".

You keep saying over and over again that people are refusing to answer simple questions. I don’t see that at all. I think you are the outlier here, and really need to stop being so combative. A lot of us who may be thinking about this for the first time are trying to work through our feelings, and the pitchforks aren’t helping.

+1

Yes, please go away, vote in the poll on AEM with ridiculously slanted language, and comment there. No need to come here and call us all deplorables. Btw, I’ve always voted democratic, have done civil rights work, and frankly I think refusing to acknowledge issues around the sports issue is shortsighted and may set back Title IX gains. I want a solution that’s as fair as possible for XY and XX girls. But isn’t it the liberal way these days to immolate our own allies?

[jsteele]

Well folks, I never would have believed that this thread would have made it to 23 pages before I had to lock it. I've had to remove a few posts, but generally I applaud participants in this thread regardless of viewpoints. You have been able to have a generally reasonable conversation about a very difficult topic. But, someone always has to spoil everything and I guess it is now time to lock this thread.