APS Transgender Policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and went through all this years ago and the biggest issue I had was the logistics of all of this with locker rooms. Do I want my daughters changing with a male? No. Even if that male feels a female, he is still a male with male parts in a locker room full of girls and it's not fair to make all of those girls deal with it for that one boy. But, there is no solution. The male feels like he has a right to be in the female locker room and it's discrimination if he's asked to use another one. Or, the girls who aren't cool with it are forced to ask for another space. There are no good answers. This applies to both PE class and athletics, of which both situations are happening in the county.

What do the girls have to "deal with"? Seriously, what exactly is the difference between a trans girl and a cis girl when it comes to changing your shirt?

Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable in only her underwear in front of a biological male? Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable seeing a naked male body? We have indecent exposure laws for a reason.

What if it made someone uncomfortable to see a classmate's prosthetic leg in the locker room? What if the classmate has a colostomy bag? Should those kids change elsewhere so other people aren't uncomfortable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're fine with trans people as long as you never have to know they exist, you're anti-trans. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't pretend otherwise.

Although to be fair, you're probably around a lot of transgendered people that you've never even noticed....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're fine with trans people as long as you never have to know they exist, you're anti-trans. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't pretend otherwise.

Although to be fair, you're probably around a lot of transgendered people that you've never even noticed....

Which is pretty much what the anti-trans crowd falls back on. They're fine with trans people walking among us, as long as they're not doing things like using a bathroom or locker room where you might discover they're actually trans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and went through all this years ago and the biggest issue I had was the logistics of all of this with locker rooms. Do I want my daughters changing with a male? No. Even if that male feels a female, he is still a male with male parts in a locker room full of girls and it's not fair to make all of those girls deal with it for that one boy. But, there is no solution. The male feels like he has a right to be in the female locker room and it's discrimination if he's asked to use another one. Or, the girls who aren't cool with it are forced to ask for another space. There are no good answers. This applies to both PE class and athletics, of which both situations are happening in the county.

What do the girls have to "deal with"? Seriously, what exactly is the difference between a trans girl and a cis girl when it comes to changing your shirt?

Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable in only her underwear in front of a biological male? Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable seeing a naked male body? We have indecent exposure laws for a reason.

What if it made someone uncomfortable to see a classmate's prosthetic leg in the locker room? What if the classmate has a colostomy bag? Should those kids change elsewhere so other people aren't uncomfortable?

Except those things are not options for these students, they didn't choose to have either of these (needed) things. Maybe a trans student is not choosing to be trans, that's part of a bigger argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

The group's own website refers to transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder, likens allowing children to express as trans to eugenics, etc. They are anti-trans. If was really just about not wanting parents excluded from those discussions, the website would focus on that rather than providing all kids of supposed "evidence" about why transgenderism is a threat to kids' well-being.

Legit question, is classification of transgenderism as type of disorder a problem? I know classifying homosexuality was. But some transgender individuals do want medical treatment and hormone therapy and surgery. Doesn’t having it count as a medical condition help with that?

The issue is what you define the problem to be. For a someone born biologically male who sincerely identifies as a woman, is the "disorder" that the person personally identifies as female, or that the person was born with body parts that don't align with how they identify? If it's the former, then you're saying their self-identification is the "disorder" that needs to be corrected so that they self-identify in a different way. If the latter is the problem, then there's no "disorder" in their self-identification, but rather that their body developed in a way that doesn't align with their self-identification.

Look at infertility. When someone experiences infertility and gets medical treatment to address it, is their "disorder" that they want biological children, or is it whatever's going wrong in their body that prevents them from having a child?

I see. So it should be seen if anything as a physical problem rather than a mental issue?

Not pp, and not anti-trans, but it gets interesting at this point because lots of kids with gender dismorphic feelings eventually outgrow them, or decide that they don’t want to physically transition. It’s why hormone blocking medications are used to delay puberty, to give those kids more time to figure things out.

This is not a simple issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and went through all this years ago and the biggest issue I had was the logistics of all of this with locker rooms. Do I want my daughters changing with a male? No. Even if that male feels a female, he is still a male with male parts in a locker room full of girls and it's not fair to make all of those girls deal with it for that one boy. But, there is no solution. The male feels like he has a right to be in the female locker room and it's discrimination if he's asked to use another one. Or, the girls who aren't cool with it are forced to ask for another space. There are no good answers. This applies to both PE class and athletics, of which both situations are happening in the county.

What do the girls have to "deal with"? Seriously, what exactly is the difference between a trans girl and a cis girl when it comes to changing your shirt?

Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable in only her underwear in front of a biological male? Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable seeing a naked male body? We have indecent exposure laws for a reason.

What if it made someone uncomfortable to see a classmate's prosthetic leg in the locker room? What if the classmate has a colostomy bag? Should those kids change elsewhere so other people aren't uncomfortable?

Except those things are not options for these students, they didn't choose to have either of these (needed) things. Maybe a trans student is not choosing to be trans, that's part of a bigger argument.

And in the meantime, you are going to substitute your judgment that they probably do choose it for their judgment that they didn't choose it.

[Anonymous]

Let's consider who is most likely to be bullied or have violent action taken against them. (HINT: it's not the cis-gendered kids.) If you look at the APS recs, it's not a call for "integrating" into locker rooms, but instead, asking for a neutral place to change that is reasonably convenient to the gym/pool facilities. Right now, many kids are forced to change in a supply closet or the teacher's office, which is not really acceptable.

Same for bathrooms - many kids have a different appearance between their sex and gender, and are policed heavily about where to pee. (This is especially true with non-binary kids). However, they are often asked to use one building, often the clinic, which may be in use, or so far away in the building that they are late for class, or get flack for having to go to the bathroom in the middle of class.

For, for trains and NB kids, it's damned if you and damned if you don't - try to integrate by the way you presented, and everyone starts getting panicked that you might do something untoward or someone else might see an offending body part. Ask for a neutral place that anyone can use, and you're special snowflake placing undue burden on the school system.

That's the issue...there isn't space. These schools don't have gender neutral choices and they aren't going to spend millions of dollars to create them. Even the locker rooms themselves don't have many "private" areas that are conducive to getting dressed quickly.

Again, there is no real solution to any of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and went through all this years ago and the biggest issue I had was the logistics of all of this with locker rooms. Do I want my daughters changing with a male? No. Even if that male feels a female, he is still a male with male parts in a locker room full of girls and it's not fair to make all of those girls deal with it for that one boy. But, there is no solution. The male feels like he has a right to be in the female locker room and it's discrimination if he's asked to use another one. Or, the girls who aren't cool with it are forced to ask for another space. There are no good answers. This applies to both PE class and athletics, of which both situations are happening in the county.

What do the girls have to "deal with"? Seriously, what exactly is the difference between a trans girl and a cis girl when it comes to changing your shirt?

Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable in only her underwear in front of a biological male? Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable seeing a naked male body? We have indecent exposure laws for a reason.

What if it made someone uncomfortable to see a classmate's prosthetic leg in the locker room? What if the classmate has a colostomy bag? Should those kids change elsewhere so other people aren't uncomfortable?

Except those things are not options for these students, they didn't choose to have either of these (needed) things. Maybe a trans student is not choosing to be trans, that's part of a bigger argument.

And in the meantime, you are going to substitute your judgment that they probably do choose it for their judgment that they didn't choose it.

Regardless, they are choosing to insist on the changing room they identify with...they are choosing to insist they place on the team they identify with, etc, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and went through all this years ago and the biggest issue I had was the logistics of all of this with locker rooms. Do I want my daughters changing with a male? No. Even if that male feels a female, he is still a male with male parts in a locker room full of girls and it's not fair to make all of those girls deal with it for that one boy. But, there is no solution. The male feels like he has a right to be in the female locker room and it's discrimination if he's asked to use another one. Or, the girls who aren't cool with it are forced to ask for another space. There are no good answers. This applies to both PE class and athletics, of which both situations are happening in the county.

What do the girls have to "deal with"? Seriously, what exactly is the difference between a trans girl and a cis girl when it comes to changing your shirt?

Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable in only her underwear in front of a biological male? Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable seeing a naked male body? We have indecent exposure laws for a reason.

What if it made someone uncomfortable to see a classmate's prosthetic leg in the locker room? What if the classmate has a colostomy bag? Should those kids change elsewhere so other people aren't uncomfortable?

Except those things are not options for these students, they didn't choose to have either of these (needed) things. Maybe a trans student is not choosing to be trans, that's part of a bigger argument.

That misses the point, though. PP (I don't know if that's you or not) is basing their argument solely on the comfort of other people in having to see something. Either comfort is a good enough reason on its own or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and went through all this years ago and the biggest issue I had was the logistics of all of this with locker rooms. Do I want my daughters changing with a male? No. Even if that male feels a female, he is still a male with male parts in a locker room full of girls and it's not fair to make all of those girls deal with it for that one boy. But, there is no solution. The male feels like he has a right to be in the female locker room and it's discrimination if he's asked to use another one. Or, the girls who aren't cool with it are forced to ask for another space. There are no good answers. This applies to both PE class and athletics, of which both situations are happening in the county.

What do the girls have to "deal with"? Seriously, what exactly is the difference between a trans girl and a cis girl when it comes to changing your shirt?

Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable in only her underwear in front of a biological male? Is it not plausible to you that a young girl would feel uncomfortable seeing a naked male body? We have indecent exposure laws for a reason.

What if it made someone uncomfortable to see a classmate's prosthetic leg in the locker room? What if the classmate has a colostomy bag? Should those kids change elsewhere so other people aren't uncomfortable?

Except those things are not options for these students, they didn't choose to have either of these (needed) things. Maybe a trans student is not choosing to be trans, that's part of a bigger argument.

And in the meantime, you are going to substitute your judgment that they probably do choose it for their judgment that they didn't choose it.

Regardless, they are choosing to insist on the changing room they identify with...they are choosing to insist they place on the team they identify with, etc, etc.

Just like you choose to identify the way you do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's now a non-transparent APS parent group that has been created to fight this policy.
https://arlingtonparentcoa.wixsite.com/arlingtonparentcoa?fbclid=IwAR0yqhdaEcHTRW8RzUcnxPuiF_FEogCHPiS-CKAwukT-KtC0rpCmB8za4t0

That is disgusting.

How is that “disgusting”? I think it’s important for parents to ensure that their voices are heard. Otherwise it will be like Fairfax County, where changes like using the phrase “gender assigned at birth” were rammed through, despite 80% of the public comments being opposed to it. Hopefully Arlington parents will get more of a say.

Then they should put their names to it. Right now they’re hiding behind that website like a bunch of cowards and yet laughably still expect the school board to take them seriously,

This. I’d be more inclined to listen if I knew it was more than one person. I have 1 neighbor whose kids don’t even go to the APS elementary names in that website who is always stirring up concern and asking to be heard on NextDoor. Then 19/20 people tell her to go pound sand and that we don’t want to hear her anti-trans or anti-feminist or anti-LGBTQ views and she says something like “thanks for your inputs - I also got lots of PMs that support me.” And I think it’s BS. I don’t think people are just scared to be publicly anti-trans and anti-inclusion. I think this website is a front that is really 1-3 people trying to look important or influential and I don’t buy it. I hope the school board doesn’t buy it either. Let’s see this group show up at a meeting with some matching t-shirts - this is APS afterall.

Yes, lots of "concern."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're fine with trans people as long as you never have to know they exist, you're anti-trans. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't pretend otherwise.

What a stupid comment and implication.

If you notice trans people everywhere ... it's because they are not trans yet and somehow you are obsessed with such a small minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worry that much of this thread is being trolled and animated by voices outside of Arlington. It reminds me of when a gun store was planning to open in Cherrydale and the NRA started giving the issue national coverage and a lot of non-Arlington voices entered the conversation. I find it very difficult to believe that there are a lot of residents sufficiently concerned about the transgender policy issue that they would devote the time and energy to fighting APS’s proposed policy.

Typed by someone who doesn’t have now, nor never will have a competitive xx girl athlete.

I would give more credit to the sports argument if people weren’t using it as a springboard to generally villify the concept of transgender inclusion, such as vague fears about our girls sharing space with biological males who identify as female. That’s straight up fear mongering.

Agreed!

Here is some reading: https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/transgender-rights/banning-trans-girls-school-sports-neither-feminist-nor-legal

"These stereotypes are also being invoked in the arena of professional sports, where so-called “gender testing” has been used to police the bodies of women of color and intersex women. The International Association of Athletic Federations has targeted athletes like Dutee Chand and Caster Semenya for testosterone testing based on arbitrary limits. IAAF’s new set of proposed regulations, which Semenya is challenging, would require female athletes with hyperandrogenism to undergo unnecessary medical treatment to suppress their hormones in order to compete.

Cisgender women should be concerned whenever an alleged concern for “protecting” our wellbeing is invoked to justify exclusion."

My only concern with any of the policies is the possible effect on women’s sports. Could care less about the rest, especially who gets elected prom queen or king.

Don’t assume we’re all crazy or using it as a front for something else. It’s frustrating to be dismissed because some people who sing your same tune on one issue are also crazy. It’s like dismissing the entire BLM group as a black supremacist hate group because a very few people did bad things while claiming a BLM mantel.

Then it becomes that much more important that you denounce the trashy arguments that are straight up anti-trans, including this organization that popped up overnight. Fair or unfair, you’ll be lumped with the anti-trans crowd if you don’t clearly distinguish yourself.

Please prove that the group in Question is anti trans.
Thanks

+1.

It would be much easier to prove that some PPs here are anti-women.

The group's own website refers to transgenderism as a psychiatric disorder, likens allowing children to express as trans to eugenics, etc. They are anti-trans. If was really just about not wanting parents excluded from those discussions, the website would focus on that rather than providing all kids of supposed "evidence" about why transgenderism is a threat to kids' well-being.

For most trans kids with zero biological substrate to support the trans desire IT IS a psychiatric disorder.

Same if right now I felt a deep urge to become Asian American and started to "treat" my body to become one.

At some point the FDA will have to come clean and explain how much physical and mental health is being harmed by unproven treatments and unscientific "diagnostics."

Just like hysteria was considered a disorder. Sounds like you need to see a psychiatrist, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Come on, folks. You can't be serious that you don't buy that people are scared to be publicly anti-trans. There are nearly 300 comments on the AEM thread basically all calling the APC members, whoever they are, bad parents and bigots. As someone pointed out upthread, this anonymous thread has a way more nuanced and insightful discussion going (even with the many deleted posts). I think that is entirely due to it being anonymous.

+1.

But it funny how deeply anti-Democratic our "democratic" politicians and voters truly are.

They apparently would love to live under top-down Stalin or Mao.

Oh no. The poor deplorables are such victims. GFY, hysterical cows.