Parents getting upset about any group invitation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

It doesn't matter if your kid is friends with Sasha and Malia. If the Bidens and Obamas decide they're tired from running the country, and they're just going to do a White House Halloween party, they get to set the invite list.

OP knows she sucks for doing this, which is why she feels so guilty about the confrontations.

OP should just move on. Just like the Obamas would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

Why is it controlling and exclusive? Why does it bother others so much if people have friends?

Here’s an example. DD has several girls her age in our neighborhood. It’s great because she’s friends with them and enjoys spending time with them. However, in the past year or two a very exclusive socializing clique has formed and these girls families have become apart of this clique. It’s fine, we’re friendly with the parents, but we also have an older son and don’t have as much free time to socialize with neighbors as the families in this clique. This clique has become not very welcoming to including others. So on multiple occasions, I’ll reach out to the mothers to see if their daughters can come over and get together with my daughter, and I’ll get “Oh sorry, we have plans” and then they roll up at a house of another clique member across the street. So the adults wanting to socialize is preventing kids from hanging out with their actual friends. The other clique members kids aren’t even the same age, and they’re not friends. I’ve seen these neighborhood cliques go bad in the past, but it’s frustrating when it’s impacting your own kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Sorry, at school my child fully chooses my child's friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Whose friends? Your kids' friends or your friends? You don't make much sense so it's hard to know what you're talking about due to all the enmeshment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Whose friends? Your kids' friends or your friends? You don't make much sense so it's hard to know what you're talking about due to all the enmeshment.

Oh, also, even fully supported my child's chosen friendship while refusing all friendships of my own, I would not host a child whose parent was judgmental, critical, argumentative or difficult. I would definitely not host a child whose parent was litigious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Whose friends? Your kids' friends or your friends? You don't make much sense so it's hard to know what you're talking about due to all the enmeshment.

Oh, also, even fully supported my child's chosen friendship while refusing all friendships of my own, I would not host a child whose parent was judgmental, critical, argumentative or difficult. I would definitely not host a child whose parent was litigious.

You sound like a peach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Whose friends? Your kids' friends or your friends? You don't make much sense so it's hard to know what you're talking about due to all the enmeshment.

Oh, also, even fully supported my child's chosen friendship while refusing all friendships of my own, I would not host a child whose parent was judgmental, critical, argumentative or difficult. I would definitely not host a child whose parent was litigious.

You're still hanging in the old neighborhood with your high school besties. That tells me all I need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously you are not going to coordinate 110 families - only coordinate with the boys then. You can ask once, then make a group chat with any takers. That will winnow it down naturally to a manageable number and no one can rightfully get bent out of shape later. I know some people don’t like grade chats but I find them helpful for this kind of stuff, sharing intel on camps, doctors, blah blah. The bottom line IMO is that you can choose either to be more welcoming or deal with the blowback of being the leader of a clique. But I’m not feeling too sorry for your plight if all you want to do about is come here and complain.

With great power comes great responsibility OP.

Great power? I am talking about dropping into a gym class that’s advertised to everyone. I find the reaction entitled. She could also initiate too. If you’re going to complain about not getting invited to something, make an effort yourself to show up or say thank you for the invite to prior attempts.

Yes but there is a reason you did not send your casual text to HER when you made the effort to text 4-5 others…and she is picking up on the exclusionary piece of that.
Yes she could have initiated, but she didn’t. YOU did initiate—but your outreach to specifically coordinate and co firm attendance at the drop-in thing did not include her and was obvious that a coordinated attendance was agreeed upon and orchestrated without her.

No—she is not “entitled” to be included but it is hurtful to NOT be included if she is supposed to be considered a friend. And the issue is probably that you don’t really consider her to be a friend….but you also aren’t particularly seeking to anger her. You just don’t enjoy her and that’s fine. But you can’t both exclude her AND make her feel okay about that, OP.
That’s gaslighting.
You don’t really like her but you include her because she’s around and you don’t want to look like a mean girl mom.
But even your tactics of inclusion are “mean girl” if I’m being honest.
As another poster pointed out—she doesn’t want to be an “add on” afterthought but that’s exactly how you treat her when you say “a group of us are getting ice cream—you should come” or “some of us are going to the park, would you like to join?”
On the surface that may feel inclusive to you and you may even think you are being so gracious to extend your circle to invite her….but OP, that only conveys that initial plans have been made and agreed upon within a smaller group that she is NOT included in and then after the plan was set, you loop her in (whether or not the time or activity works for her schedule is not a consideration—as she is clearly not part of the “A” list group.)—-but aren’t you a sweetheart for inviting her? Why isn’t she showing any interest??
I just want you to acknowledge that to you, the issue is her ingratitude and entitlement.
But to her—the issue is that this group of moms is pretending to like her and include her, but in reality they don’t do either and she is hurt.

Wow! NP here.

I am the mom who was often excluded. But, I made sure that I did not dwell on the hurt (I had to work on it) because I did not want to give that much power to anyone. First, it is immense entitlement to think that people owe it to you to be inclusive in a welcoming manner. They can choose to invite or not invite you. They can choose to invite you just so that they don't look like a mean girl. BUT in the end, they don't owe you anything.

Another thing is that the hurt mom is boorish if she makes it uncomfortable for others or does a prolonged sulk. Move on. Be polite and warm on the surface. Find your own people. Initiate and organize yourself etc. You do not need to be making others uncomfortable in retaliation. If you did not like the non-inclusive behavior in others, why are you indulging in the same? Be an adult and move on.

The best revenge is living a good life, making friends, being social and not giving it one thought more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously you are not going to coordinate 110 families - only coordinate with the boys then. You can ask once, then make a group chat with any takers. That will winnow it down naturally to a manageable number and no one can rightfully get bent out of shape later. I know some people don’t like grade chats but I find them helpful for this kind of stuff, sharing intel on camps, doctors, blah blah. The bottom line IMO is that you can choose either to be more welcoming or deal with the blowback of being the leader of a clique. But I’m not feeling too sorry for your plight if all you want to do about is come here and complain.

With great power comes great responsibility OP.

Great power? I am talking about dropping into a gym class that’s advertised to everyone. I find the reaction entitled. She could also initiate too. If you’re going to complain about not getting invited to something, make an effort yourself to show up or say thank you for the invite to prior attempts.

Yes but there is a reason you did not send your casual text to HER when you made the effort to text 4-5 others…and she is picking up on the exclusionary piece of that.
Yes she could have initiated, but she didn’t. YOU did initiate—but your outreach to specifically coordinate and co firm attendance at the drop-in thing did not include her and was obvious that a coordinated attendance was agreeed upon and orchestrated without her.

No—she is not “entitled” to be included but it is hurtful to NOT be included if she is supposed to be considered a friend. And the issue is probably that you don’t really consider her to be a friend….but you also aren’t particularly seeking to anger her. You just don’t enjoy her and that’s fine. But you can’t both exclude her AND make her feel okay about that, OP.
That’s gaslighting.
You don’t really like her but you include her because she’s around and you don’t want to look like a mean girl mom.
But even your tactics of inclusion are “mean girl” if I’m being honest.
As another poster pointed out—she doesn’t want to be an “add on” afterthought but that’s exactly how you treat her when you say “a group of us are getting ice cream—you should come” or “some of us are going to the park, would you like to join?”
On the surface that may feel inclusive to you and you may even think you are being so gracious to extend your circle to invite her….but OP, that only conveys that initial plans have been made and agreed upon within a smaller group that she is NOT included in and then after the plan was set, you loop her in (whether or not the time or activity works for her schedule is not a consideration—as she is clearly not part of the “A” list group.)—-but aren’t you a sweetheart for inviting her? Why isn’t she showing any interest??
I just want you to acknowledge that to you, the issue is her ingratitude and entitlement.
But to her—the issue is that this group of moms is pretending to like her and include her, but in reality they don’t do either and she is hurt.

Wow! NP here.

I am the mom who was often excluded. But, I made sure that I did not dwell on the hurt (I had to work on it) because I did not want to give that much power to anyone. First, it is immense entitlement to think that people owe it to you to be inclusive in a welcoming manner. They can choose to invite or not invite you. They can choose to invite you just so that they don't look like a mean girl. BUT in the end, they don't owe you anything.

Another thing is that the hurt mom is boorish if she makes it uncomfortable for others or does a prolonged sulk. Move on. Be polite and warm on the surface. Find your own people. Initiate and organize yourself etc. You do not need to be making others uncomfortable in retaliation. If you did not like the non-inclusive behavior in others, why are you indulging in the same? Be an adult and move on.

The best revenge is living a good life, making friends, being social and not giving it one thought more.

Likewise, nobody owes it to the exclusive moms to look the other way or pretend not to hear about the parties they are discussing in front of everyone. They coast along not caring or realizing they are being incredibly rude, depending on the good manners of others, until someone like OP's nemesis doesn't hold back. And OP can't handle it. Karma. It's funny to the rest of us who bite our tongue and don't respond in kind to this kind of oblivious rudeness and exclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Whose friends? Your kids' friends or your friends? You don't make much sense so it's hard to know what you're talking about due to all the enmeshment.

Oh, also, even fully supported my child's chosen friendship while refusing all friendships of my own, I would not host a child whose parent was judgmental, critical, argumentative or difficult. I would definitely not host a child whose parent was litigious.

You're still hanging in the old neighborhood with your high school besties. That tells me all I need to know.

Sorry you don’t have friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Whose friends? Your kids' friends or your friends? You don't make much sense so it's hard to know what you're talking about due to all the enmeshment.

Oh, also, even fully supported my child's chosen friendship while refusing all friendships of my own, I would not host a child whose parent was judgmental, critical, argumentative or difficult. I would definitely not host a child whose parent was litigious.

You're still hanging in the old neighborhood with your high school besties. That tells me all I need to know.

Sorry you don’t have friends.

Yep, still in that adolescent mindset. I know the type.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think the gist of this thread can be summed up as this:
Parents, have your own friends. And let your kids have their own friends. Those kid friends might be completely unrelated to your friends and that's fine.
This culture that has developed of "friends who are like family" is controlling and exclusive. There are countless threads of people upset they don't have this. I think it's because most kids don't have local family anymore and parents want to develop these cousin like relationships. Your kids should of course be polite to your friends kids but they don't need to be best friends and certainly not their only friends.

I sort of agree with this. But actually, it is *because* my spouse and I have our own friends outside our kid's school and activity communities that she has "cousin like relationships" with those kids. She hangs out with them because we are friends with their parents, and over the years the kids have learned to play together and have fun even though they are different ages, go to different schools, live in different neighborhoods or even towns.

I think the key is avoid making your kids' school or extra-curricular community the center of your family's social universe. We are friendly with families from the school, but most of my friendships go much further back and are based on deeper things than just having kids the same age in the same class. No one at my kid's school knows me that well, and while I see them socially at school events and birthday parties and can chat with them and enjoy their company, we aren't vacationing together and I'm not getting together with all the moms for girls night or anything. I wouldn't want to do that because I don't want my social relationships with the parents to impact my kid's relationships. Sometimes she's friends with kids whose parents aren't really my jam, and it's fine because I can coordinate with those parents for playdates and things but I don't need to be best friends with them. There are other kids she has no interest in even though I think their parents are very cool, and there's zero pressure on her to become friends with those kids just to facilitate me getting to know their parents better. And that's how it should be.

I view parents at the school the way I view colleagues -- I want to have good working relationships with them. I am respectful and open minded about them because it's a large community that exists for reasons well beyond my personal social needs. But I also keep people at a bit of arms length because I don't want it to impact our work (parenting). Also, just like in any job, the likelihood that we will all be working together like this longterm is slim -- people change jobs and schools, kids move on to there activities, this is not a static situation. If you keep the relationships professional, there are no hurt feelings and it doesn't upend people's lives if one family goes private or the kids head to different middle schools or someone moves.

Even the Obama kids and the Biden grandchildren formed a bond from the family experiences. You can't stop bonds from happening. You also can't force bonds.

But trying to police when people with bonds get together isn't going to work.

That is a bizarre example because being the child or grandchild of a President or Vice President is a singular experience with which very few people can relate so of course it would forge some bonds. That's not the same as attending preschool with 5 other kids and your moms all becoming a bestie clique that follows you to elementary, where you actually develop other friends and interests yet your moms insist on you continuing to do all your socializing with those same 5 kids because those are the moms they are friends with. Very different situations!

The point is that that building your family social life around the families your kid goes to school with is dicy because your social interests and your kids' social interests will not always perfectly align. If you keep your social life more independent, your kids can choose friends and activities more freely. And avoiding becoming too intertwined with school families is useful because school is a necessarily temporary situation and as your kids get older and your situation changes, it won't be as impactful on your social life if your friends are mostly from outside that community.

People relate and don't relate for many reasons. Sometimes it's all first-time girl moms who start to bond over hating the boys in the class. Sometimes it's the lazy moms who can't stand the overly-intense, perfectionist moms. Sometimes it's the perfectionist moms who all enjoy their superior perfection. Sometimes it's the wine-o'clock moms.

Bonds happen. Family parties happen. OP should move on.

What does this have to do with kid friendships? Is your kid allowed to be friends with anyone they want or do they have to be friends with the children of your friends? When your kid wants ice cream do you think to call your friends first or do you ask your kid who they want to have ice cream with?

At school my friends fully choose their friends.

Outside of school, even if I had zero friends, I'd still have a say in my child's friends. The friends my child could see the most would be the well-behaved ones whose mothers were easy to coordinate with, whose kids were easy to chaperone. I still make an effort with the poorly behaved friends or the ones whose parents are difficult. However, these play dates are much less frequent.

I also have friends. Some of my friends are from high school. Two even live in my same neighborhood. Others have kids in my kids' classes. Sometimes I want to get together with my adult friends and ignore all of our kids while they run wild. Does that sound irresponsible? I know some people think it is. Those parents and kids are not invited to those events. Sometimes my high school friends have their parents over and we have a three-generation get-together. Sometimes we talk about very sensitive issues, and we don't want to talk about this with every parent on the block.

Sometimes I invite children to these events without the parents. The circumstances of this need to be specific. For example, one child has a best friend whose parents don't want to be included and also don't mind lax supervision.

But no, people don't get to demand I supervise their child the way that they want in my house on a Friday night.

Whose friends? Your kids' friends or your friends? You don't make much sense so it's hard to know what you're talking about due to all the enmeshment.

Oh, also, even fully supported my child's chosen friendship while refusing all friendships of my own, I would not host a child whose parent was judgmental, critical, argumentative or difficult. I would definitely not host a child whose parent was litigious.

You throw parties without inviting your own child? You're being just as judgmental, critical, argumentative and difficult as you describe your nemesis to be.