What is the endgame for current attack on elite unis + international students?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap.

And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.

Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school.

It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning.

I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world?

And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen".

Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic.

American tax money should be for Americans.

Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours.

More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans.

More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study.

Fewer jobs = worse economy

Is that so difficult to understand?

Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.

You are wrong.

There isn’t a fixed number of university places. Fewer foreigners would mean fewer places, not more places for Americans. If the colleges wanted they could expand now and take more students. Their incentives are to minimize the acceptance rate, not maximize it.

There isn’t a fixed number of good jobs. It depends on the rate of innovation and entrepreneurship. When companies like google are founded by foreigners in the US it creates more good jobs for Americans.

Can you understand this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap.

And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.

Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school.

It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning.

I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world?

And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen".

Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic.

American tax money should be for Americans.

Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours.

More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans.

More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study.

Fewer jobs = worse economy

Is that so difficult to understand?

Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.

You are wrong.

There isn’t a fixed number of university places. Fewer foreigners would mean fewer places, not more places for Americans. If the colleges wanted they could expand now and take more students. Their incentives are to minimize the acceptance rate, not maximize it.

There isn’t a fixed number of good jobs. It depends on the rate of innovation and entrepreneurship. When companies like google are founded by foreigners in the US it creates more good jobs for Americans.

Can you understand this?

Aren’t we talking selective schools? There are fixed numbers because they want to keep class sizes small given the student teacher ratio and how U.S. News & World Report rates those categories. They also want to keep underclassmen on campus and only have so many beds. It will take time to build new dorms and have more space.

[Anonymous]

If you read Rufo's work, his goal is to remake the elite institutions in a conservative image so they can produce a generation of right-leaning thought leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap.

And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.

Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school.

It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning.

I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world?

And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen".

Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic.

American tax money should be for Americans.

Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours.

More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans.

More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study.

Fewer jobs = worse economy

Is that so difficult to understand?

Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.

You have a simple logic, and simple mind too like Donald.

Yes, I mentioned I was a scientist.

Occam's Razor, also known as the principle of parsimony, is a problem-solving principle that suggests the simplest explanation for a phenomenon is usually the most accurate. It essentially encourages scientists and thinkers to favor simpler theories over more complex ones when faced with multiple explanations for the same observation.

I really don't like Trump and didn't vote for him. Never did I make the mistake in thinking he was dumb. He has the power now because of people like you. And let me remind you that indeed you are powerless.

You're hilarious, PP. You literally know nothing about me but you know Trump is in power because of me (= because I support international students at universities).

The people of my former "blue wall" state had many reasons why they broke for Trump. But I'm sure H1B visas for US educated foreign students weren't top of mind. These people, as shown on "Liberation Day", want their high-paid manufacturing assembly jobs back. Nobody's moving here from China to do those. And such jobs have left for a complicated set of reasons that I doubt Trump can reverse no matter what policies he sets. It's like your inability to prevent offshoring to India.

But hey, why not just throw out "Occam's Razor" and blame me for Trump.

"Occam's Razor" might suggest the entire economics profession instead with their theories of global trade and assumptions about frictional unemployment. They thought everything would magically work like their models but instead we exchanged blue collar jobs for a surfeit of dirt cheap dollar store merchandise. Both political parties are guilty of this. Frankly, the rich didn't care enough about low-income people until it became apparent that the economic wounds weren't going to heal with time. And that it was causing the rise of MAGA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap.

And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.

Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school.

It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning.

I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world?

And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen".

Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic.

American tax money should be for Americans.

Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours.

More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans.

More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study.

Fewer jobs = worse economy

Is that so difficult to understand?

Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.

You are wrong.

There isn’t a fixed number of university places. Fewer foreigners would mean fewer places, not more places for Americans. If the colleges wanted they could expand now and take more students. Their incentives are to minimize the acceptance rate, not maximize it.

There isn’t a fixed number of good jobs. It depends on the rate of innovation and entrepreneurship. When companies like google are founded by foreigners in the US it creates more good jobs for Americans.

Can you understand this?

I think it should go back to how it was in the 90s. No more than 5% of a university should be foreign.
And they should all… Every single one of them be full pay. It limits the role of protest. When they know they are paying their own way. They will be less inclined to burn the American flag in a ditch on campus.

I think it should be no more than 2%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you read Rufo's work, his goal is to remake the elite institutions in a conservative image so they can produce a generation of right-leaning thought leaders.

Liberals had control of them for at least 50 years so conservatives should control them for the next 50 years. That sounds fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

Bc we see the number of kids from China at Cornell or the Cali schools. And our kids can’t get in. And it morphs the feeling of these campuses and makes them “quirky” and antisocial.

Why are we educating Chinas wealthiest??? Same for India. It makes no sense.

Quirky and antisocial? That's ridiculous. Just admit you don't like foreigners! Some of the nicest people in my grad program were the international students. My grandma had a Chinese grad student friend at Cornell in the 1930s. We have their pen pal letters.

China's wealthiest and India's wealthiest either want to move here or do business here. They want to be exposed to the state of the art education. It's similar to what goes on at Oxford and Cambridge.

The international cohorts are so large that these campuses are effectively segregated. Not sure why you think it’s some paradise. It’s not.

Sounds like you have difficulty making friends with people who aren't exactly like you. International students are usually delighted to make American friends. But they will peel off in groups for comfort if nobody reaches out.

Litmus test. If you go to the cafeteria and see a group of people speaking a foreign language, does that upset you? Do you wave and say hi to the people you know in that group?

NP
I wave and say hi. They say hi and continue to speak an exclusive language to keep me and others out. It happened to DD at TJ too.

Ok. So then you make friends 1:1 and next time you can sit with them and they'll switch to English for you.

NP. Why should they have to cater to antisocial behavior? How about no one appeases them, they can stay in their groups and Americans can choose whether they want such behavior around. Pretty simple.

Unless you're Anglo-American or Native American, odds are your American immigrant forebears did exactly the same thing.

I have Eastern European heritage. When my ancestors showed up to work on railroads in Upstate New York, the Irish immigrant people literally threw rocks at them. They had a church and community organizations that all operated in their native language. Maintenance of a second language is normal. Making friends across racial/ethnic lines is also possible and normal. If you feel excluded, I really wonder whether you cared or tried to be included.

TJ is not an ordinary school. Your problems in that rarified environment are not highly relevant to mainstream experiences. Our high school is mostly white with average SAT somewhere below 1200. It's not a school district that the brightest immigrants would send their kids to. So as a consequence, my kid doesn't really know what excellence looks like. Care to trade?

Are you aware that all humans originated from Africa? Yes, even your Eastern European ancestors. Yet every other country has measures in place to protect their people BECAUSE they've gone through what the US is going through now. Do you really think because the US is a 'newer' country, we shouldn't protect what our ancestors built here? Why should we play by rules that are advantages to those without citizenship but not with? We can and should increase opportunities for our citizens today without providing those opportunities for non-citizens. Why is this so controversial? Or is the fact that you might be African just mind blowing to you?

There are a lot of ancestors who were part of the building who were not compensated for it and to this day, still suffer the stigma associated with it. Try seeing the world through other people's lenses.

Tale as old as time in every country on this planet. I do see where you are coming from, but we have to start where we are not get stuck in the past. If we shut out foreigners we are not proliferating racism. I too am a person of color. We are simply saying what we are doing now is not sustainable, just like every "old world" country has already done.

despite Trumpism, the world is a global community. Integrating our higher education with people from around the world makes American-born students stronger and more worldly.

Exactly what university partnerships are for. Foreign students attend their universities, American students attend ours. We form partnerships and Bingo - win win.

Just FYI the division of the State Dept that facilitated and helped fund university partnerships has already been eliminated.

If that's true then it's one of the many downsides to this administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap.

And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.

Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school.

It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning.

I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world?

And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen".

Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic.

American tax money should be for Americans.

Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours.

More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans.

More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study.

Fewer jobs = worse economy

Is that so difficult to understand?

Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.

You are wrong.

There isn’t a fixed number of university places. Fewer foreigners would mean fewer places, not more places for Americans. If the colleges wanted they could expand now and take more students. Their incentives are to minimize the acceptance rate, not maximize it.

There isn’t a fixed number of good jobs. It depends on the rate of innovation and entrepreneurship. When companies like google are founded by foreigners in the US it creates more good jobs for Americans.

Can you understand this?

I think it should go back to how it was in the 90s. No more than 5% of a university should be foreign.
And they should all… Every single one of them be full pay. It limits the role of protest. When they know they are paying their own way. They will be less inclined to burn the American flag in a ditch on campus.

I think it should be no more than 2%

Ok with that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap.

And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.

Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school.

It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning.

I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world?

And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen".

Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic.

American tax money should be for Americans.

Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours.

More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans.

More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study.

Fewer jobs = worse economy

Is that so difficult to understand?

Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.

You are wrong.

There isn’t a fixed number of university places. Fewer foreigners would mean fewer places, not more places for Americans. If the colleges wanted they could expand now and take more students. Their incentives are to minimize the acceptance rate, not maximize it.

There isn’t a fixed number of good jobs. It depends on the rate of innovation and entrepreneurship. When companies like google are founded by foreigners in the US it creates more good jobs for Americans.

Can you understand this?

I understand what you are saying and there is only 50% truth to it - like CNN and FOX, the truth is stretched to a place it is no longer recognizable - unless, like me you read both and many in between.

There is a target number of acceptances at each university. Yes ,they could expand, if they wanted to - the incentives have been to support foreigners, using our tax money.

The US is the most innovative country in the last 100 years or so.
Google - founded by Americans
Apple - founded by Americans
Microsoft - founded by Americans
Etc
Etc

Honestly, we don't need foreign innovators here. The US grows innovators and entrepreneurs like a jungle grows plants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you read Rufo's work, his goal is to remake the elite institutions in a conservative image so they can produce a generation of right-leaning thought leaders.

Liberals had control of them for at least 50 years so conservatives should control them for the next 50 years. That sounds fair.

So much for a free market or free will for that matter. Do you know any private organization that naturally leaned conservative that democrats wanted to restrict, control and invade to make "liberal?" This whole mindset is antithetical to the conservative political philosophy. It has everything to do with trying to control thought and building a totalitarian regime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap.

And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.

Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school.

It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning.

I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world?

And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen".

Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic.

American tax money should be for Americans.

Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours.

More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans.

More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study.

Fewer jobs = worse economy

Is that so difficult to understand?

Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.

You have a simple logic, and simple mind too like Donald.

Yes, I mentioned I was a scientist.

Occam's Razor, also known as the principle of parsimony, is a problem-solving principle that suggests the simplest explanation for a phenomenon is usually the most accurate. It essentially encourages scientists and thinkers to favor simpler theories over more complex ones when faced with multiple explanations for the same observation.

I really don't like Trump and didn't vote for him. Never did I make the mistake in thinking he was dumb. He has the power now because of people like you. And let me remind you that indeed you are powerless.

You're hilarious, PP. You literally know nothing about me but you know Trump is in power because of me (= because I support international students at universities).

The people of my former "blue wall" state had many reasons why they broke for Trump. But I'm sure H1B visas for US educated foreign students weren't top of mind. These people, as shown on "Liberation Day", want their high-paid manufacturing assembly jobs back. Nobody's moving here from China to do those. And such jobs have left for a complicated set of reasons that I doubt Trump can reverse no matter what policies he sets. It's like your inability to prevent offshoring to India.

But hey, why not just throw out "Occam's Razor" and blame me for Trump.

"Occam's Razor" might suggest the entire economics profession instead with their theories of global trade and assumptions about frictional unemployment. They thought everything would magically work like their models but instead we exchanged blue collar jobs for a surfeit of dirt cheap dollar store merchandise. Both political parties are guilty of this. Frankly, the rich didn't care enough about low-income people until it became apparent that the economic wounds weren't going to heal with time. And that it was causing the rise of MAGA.

It's to point out your mindset to think you know everything so stubbornly. Honestly it doesn't matter who you voted for - the fact that the right cannot see the left and the left cannot see the right is a big problem.

[Anonymous]

Universities will not voluntarily go along with restrictions on foreign students because they want their money. I was in a committee meeting many years ago at a college where I worked, and heard the provost dream aloud about how great it would be for the bottom line if they could get to 15% foreign students. I checked, and they are now at over 20%. You can’t get universities to agree with you unless it benefits their bottom line (or becomes illegal).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Less educated population. Less critical thinking. Fewer places for people to pursue intellectual and liberal ideas. All leads to better control of the population and easier for authoritarians. Taking international students away takes their $$ away and makes universities more susceptible to having to comply with things for $

LOL

Liberal ideas as in

- There can be no argument against DEI. Anyone arguing against it is a racist. Arguments against DEI cannot be allowed.
- Likewise the same as above can can said about ESG.
- The moment Trump is mentioned, no arguments are to be allowed. Everything and anything done by him is wrong and need to be opposed.
- Anyone arguing against taking a more cautious approach on early childhood gender surgeries, etc. cannot be allowed on college campuses.

Good thing we have Trump. Liberals are now finding out what it feels like if the shoe is on the other foot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Less educated population. Less critical thinking. Fewer places for people to pursue intellectual and liberal ideas. All leads to better control of the population and easier for authoritarians. Taking international students away takes their $$ away and makes universities more susceptible to having to comply with things for $

LOL

Liberal ideas as in

- There can be no argument against DEI. Anyone arguing against it is a racist. Arguments against DEI cannot be allowed.
- Likewise the same as above can can said about ESG.
- The moment Trump is mentioned, no arguments are to be allowed. Everything and anything done by him is wrong and need to be opposed.
- Anyone arguing against taking a more cautious approach on early childhood gender surgeries, etc. cannot be allowed on college campuses.

Good thing we have Trump. Liberals are now finding out what it feels like if the shoe is on the other foot.

It's a good thing we have Trump so you can have retribution on liberals? So strange. This is so far beyond what is good and right for the country. It's purely about meanness and winning. We, as a nation, have every cause for concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

That is because you are a xenophobic imbecile who has no understanding of the damage this would do to this country.

It would do zero damage this country- stop being a ridiculous fear monger. Barely any foreigners came to our colleges in much of the 20th century and that was peak America. We would all be better off without having to compete w them for our universities.

+1

+2 When our own very high stats, hard working American kids can’t get into top 50 universities it is a problem. Fill our schools with smart Americans. Why is this controversial?

I hate Trump with all of my being. I just checked my kids’ schools and they’re 10% or less international students. That doesn’t seem too high, but I understand that it could be higher at other schools. I’d advocate for no more than 10%. I’m guessing that being white, from Northern Virginia and having college-educated parents is what has impacted my kids’ applications.