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Reply to "What is the endgame for current attack on elite unis + international students?"
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program[/quote] Absolutely. And why did this happen: The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows: • 1995: 452,635 • 2000: 514,723 • 2005: 564,766 • 2010: 723,277 • 2015: 1,043,839 • 2020: 914,095 • 2023: 1,057,188[/quote] That's bananas[/quote] Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors. [/quote] Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.[/quote] DP I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.[/quote] 5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard. [b]Universities are here to educate humans, [/b]wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country! [/quote] Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc. I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.[/quote] Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/ [/quote] Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.[/quote] Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students. https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/[/quote] The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.[/quote] AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.[/quote] I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.[/quote] Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product. There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task. If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now? By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...[/quote] Did you read your own drivel before you submitted? I don't work at GS so I have zero idea why that would happen other than they are used to paying a premium for everything. Our company has a technology department so AI is easy to adapt and implement - its cheap. And I truly wish I could sell the idea of hiring (and keeping) more Americans to senior leaders. I've tried. Unfortunately, Americans are more expensive than any other country. We are a global company and the US has the least protections for their citizens, so the easiest way to cut costs is to lay off the Americans. We can pay 3 Indians for the price of 1 American.[/quote] Ok then, so if Americans are too expensive then it doesn't matter how well-educated they are by American universities. We just need to pray for more Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg types to emerge ready to innovate after high school. It doesn't sound like you have a concrete plan for connecting AI and the additional randomly innovative but expensive Americans that would be educated at US universities under your plan. Sounds like Indian offshoring's going to keep winning. I challenge you with your great American-born mind to innovate us out of this dilemma. I doubt it will come from restricting foreign students at American universities. How do you even know how good you are if you can't compare your skills to the best in the world? And don't kid yourself that the Chinese can't innovate. Stop worrying about me and go read the business news. They are cleaning up. And with a lot of locally produced tech...not "stolen". [/quote] Ok, let's use short sentences and simple logic. American tax money should be for Americans. Foreigners have opportunities in their countries. They can use their own tax money, not ours. More foreigners here means fewer college spots for Americans. More jobs moving to low cost centers means fewer jobs for Americans. More foreigners in US colleges mean fewer jobs for citizens, because many take jobs here post study. Fewer jobs = worse economy Is that so difficult to understand? Seriously, if you don't understand that the political gap will never be bridged. Or, perhaps you are just dumb and can't get it. I'm going to assume you are smart enough to understand it.[/quote] You are wrong. There isn’t a fixed number of university places. Fewer foreigners would mean fewer places, not more places for Americans. If the colleges wanted they could expand now and take more students. Their incentives are to minimize the acceptance rate, not maximize it. There isn’t a fixed number of good jobs. It depends on the rate of innovation and entrepreneurship. When companies like google are founded by foreigners in the US it creates more good jobs for Americans. Can you understand this?[/quote]
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