What is the endgame for current attack on elite unis + international students?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Do you ever say that a star high school basketball player should be given the same chance as Kobe? No? It’s because you know that there is genius and not everyone is equal. The same is absolutely true of scientific researchers. Sure some Americans are going to rise to the top. But we are less than 5% of the world population. Our “brain drain” policies have concentrated really smart people in the US - through our university system. It is the heart of the US innovation system.

10% of undergrads are foreign. And those kids are for the most part not being subsidized by the US taxpayer. What those kids are doing is making ten value of the elite school undergrad degree more prestigious for all that have it. It does mean that 10% fewer Americans get in.

Grad school and govt funded research is a whole other thing. We don’t have enough US STEM students interested in going on to PhDs. So we get foreign students. And we also try to get the cream of the crop. The whole enterprise is about to collapse by the twin attacks on university research and international student visas. We want to kill US innovation and encourage US trained scientists to leave the US? Couldn’t have developed a better plan. And who is rejoicing? China - who has been mad about the brain drain to the US for a long time. But also our allies are hoping to scoop up talent. So so short sighted.

This is categorically false!!!!

Fix it.

[Anonymous]

Damn, this thread is sad!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Damn, this thread is sad!

I think it's past it's sell-by date. Too many comments not pertinent to the thread topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Do you ever say that a star high school basketball player should be given the same chance as Kobe? No? It’s because you know that there is genius and not everyone is equal. The same is absolutely true of scientific researchers. Sure some Americans are going to rise to the top. But we are less than 5% of the world population. Our “brain drain” policies have concentrated really smart people in the US - through our university system. It is the heart of the US innovation system.

10% of undergrads are foreign. And those kids are for the most part not being subsidized by the US taxpayer. What those kids are doing is making ten value of the elite school undergrad degree more prestigious for all that have it. It does mean that 10% fewer Americans get in.

Grad school and govt funded research is a whole other thing. We don’t have enough US STEM students interested in going on to PhDs. So we get foreign students. And we also try to get the cream of the crop. The whole enterprise is about to collapse by the twin attacks on university research and international student visas. We want to kill US innovation and encourage US trained scientists to leave the US? Couldn’t have developed a better plan. And who is rejoicing? China - who has been mad about the brain drain to the US for a long time. But also our allies are hoping to scoop up talent. So so short sighted.

This is categorically false!!!!

Fix it.

It is not false. You will have to show me the data. We would have to “dumb down” our research enterprise to use only American born students. For two reasons. 1. Many highly qualified American STEM students do not want to put in the time into a PhD. These kids could be making bank in consulting gigs or on Wall Street. Unless there is a passion, why would they give up prime earning years when they don’t need to? 2. Our universities really are pulling from the very best. Which is why they are the source of such great innovation. Imagine having a giant sucking machine that draws the best minds in the world to the US. That is what our research universities are.

[Anonymous]

[youtube][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.[/quote]

That is because you are a xenophobic imbecile who has no understanding of the damage this would do to this country.[/quote]

It would do zero damage this country- stop being a ridiculous fear monger. Barely any foreigners came to our colleges in much of the 20th century and that was peak America. We would all be better off without having to compete w them for our universities. [/quote]

+1[/quote]

+2 When our own very high stats, hard working American kids can’t get into top 50 universities it is a problem. Fill our schools with smart Americans. Why is this controversial? [/quote]

A lot of top 50 universities get a lot of money from international students so that helps have more financial aid to help more American students afford to attend given the outrageous cost of university these days. Colleges will change tremendously without international students. [/quote]

Nope. They could just admit full pay domestic.[/quote]

[Anonymous]

End game for universities is to prevent them from continuing to be an embarrassment on the world stage, force them to select leaders based on merit and not DEI check boxes, and to stop paying exorbitant overhead fees to those institutions that already have huge endowments.

Unfortunately, federal funds have been padding the coffers of educational programs at the K-12 level as well as with higher level institutions. As a result there are large swaths of overpaid staff that do not contribute to actually improving the education mission.

As far as international students, obey US laws and there are no issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:End game for universities is to prevent them from continuing to be an embarrassment on the world stage, force them to select leaders based on merit and not DEI check boxes, and to stop paying exorbitant overhead fees to those institutions that already have huge endowments.

Unfortunately, federal funds have been padding the coffers of educational programs at the K-12 level as well as with higher level institutions. As a result there are large swaths of overpaid staff that do not contribute to actually improving the education mission.

As far as international students, obey US laws and there are no issues.

+1

[Anonymous]

This same thing happened at Claremont McKenna college and it was the dumb student’s fault. They were out of state and drinking with a fake id- an illegal action. Don’t wanna get deported, maybe don’t do crimes- and I’m a progressive. Student is rich and will be fine.

But anyway, the goal? There is none, he’s just mad the libs are at Harvard and are disobeying. The result is harming poor people as the top colleges will be less and less able to fight back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Less educated population. Less critical thinking. Fewer places for people to pursue intellectual and liberal ideas. All leads to better control of the population and easier for authoritarians. Taking international students away takes their $$ away and makes universities more susceptible to having to comply with things for $

Or, it means there will be many more qualified, well-educated American high school students getting spots at more competitive schools and graduating well prepared to work here. Educating 1.25 million internationals each year isn't totally in America's best interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What are the ramifications for the upcoming grad years? I would think merit pay, financial aid, intl students all going to take a major hit (top institutions pivot back more towards socioeconomic elitism). Any views?

My best guess is things calm down after the midterms and recover in 2028.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The end game is quite simple. Universities will continue to maintain their share of international students. However free tuition and easy visas for students from anti-Semitic countries is over. Full pay students with high academic achievements will replace them.

Private universities will receive lower federal funding (hopefully going down to zero). $50Bn Harvard Corporation & fat cats like Obama will yell "assault on free speech" or "what about cancer research" as they fabricate moral cover to hide past efforts to privatize profit and pass costs to the public. This will fall on deaf ears, and will force universities to cut the fat and leverage technology including AI for new methods of teaching.

DCUM will still be rearranging lists of T20 because as we all know T21 is just not good enough.

The anti-Semitic countries are led by Trump’s new best friends. They aren’t going anywhere. And the United States top students are other countries average students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The endgame is unwavering loyalty to one man.

Who is a young buck and will live for decades...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:End game for universities is to prevent them from continuing to be an embarrassment on the world stage, force them to select leaders based on merit and not DEI check boxes, and to stop paying exorbitant overhead fees to those institutions that already have huge endowments.

Unfortunately, federal funds have been padding the coffers of educational programs at the K-12 level as well as with higher level institutions. As a result there are large swaths of overpaid staff that do not contribute to actually improving the education mission.

As far as international students, obey the MAGA talking points and there are no issues.

+1

Fixed it for you….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Less educated population. Less critical thinking. Fewer places for people to pursue intellectual and liberal ideas. All leads to better control of the population and easier for authoritarians. Taking international students away takes their $$ away and makes universities more susceptible to having to comply with things for $

Or, it means there will be many more qualified, well-educated American high school students getting spots at more competitive schools and graduating well prepared to work here. Educating 1.25 million internationals each year isn't totally in America's best interest.

People like you will be the reason we will lose world dominance 2o years from now…..go back to sticking your head in the sand

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Less educated population. Less critical thinking. Fewer places for people to pursue intellectual and liberal ideas. All leads to better control of the population and easier for authoritarians. Taking international students away takes their $$ away and makes universities more susceptible to having to comply with things for $

Or, it means there will be many more qualified, well-educated American high school students getting spots at more competitive schools and graduating well prepared to work here. Educating 1.25 million internationals each year isn't totally in America's best interest.

People like you will be the reason we will lose world dominance 2o years from now…..go back to sticking your head in the sand

A liberal progressive..... who is bent on world domination!

I thought you are all about equity! Or does it stop at the borders?

The hypocrisy!!