If things get worse for Jewish people

[Anonymous]

See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Move near us Evangelical Christians. We care about you and believe in western civilization. We will defend western civilization and many of us are armed and will train you to be able to defend yourself with dignity. Nobody knows how they are going to die in the end but at the very least we never want to go down in the humiliating fashion of those poor Jewish kids at the rave or loaded helplessly onto rail cars headed for the ovens. Powerful gun rights cause problems for the enemies of western civilization and freedom.

WTH is this? Western civilization?

Is it okay for hate groups to target Arabs?

No but it’s imperative for people to defend themselves with guns including Arabs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

[Anonymous]

This tiny postage stamp of a country divides the world. People who don’t see the biblical significance of this crack me up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bet these hate filled New Yorkers, turned Israeli squatters, have come back to study in US colleges.

That was eye opening. And disturbing. I’m sure it was selective in that plenty of Israelis have different view, but still, ugh.

Yes most Israelis don’t think that way. It’s a selective video.

Why is it okay to target Muslims with hate for the behavior of a few?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bet these hate filled New Yorkers, turned Israeli squatters, have come back to study in US colleges.

That was eye opening. And disturbing. I’m sure it was selective in that plenty of Israelis have different view, but still, ugh.

Yes most Israelis don’t think that way. It’s a selective video.

Why is it okay to target Muslims with hate for the behavior of a few?

Did I say it is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

Surely you understand that stateless nations are problematic for everyone. Look at the Kurds. They are a nation that has no official state. This has caused them to be attacked, famously with chemical weapons. They are also attackers, historically using terrorism for political violence. Right now, Israelis have a state. And, they have agreed to allow the state of Palestine to operate independently on land that officially belongs to Israel. Israel even foots the bill for all utilities that Palestine uses.

Why isn't this enough? Surely you understand that kicking Israelis out and leaving them stateless would harm all involved. Palestine has practically no governance and Israel has to take care of the people in Palestine. If we say, okay, let's kick out all the Jews and cede all of Israel to a terrorist organization, how do you think that will turn out? And what we would do about the nuclear bombs that Israel has? Turn that over to hamas, too? The so-called pro Palestine movement will be a bit like the dog that caught the car. This is not an outcome that will help actual Palestinians.

I agree that stateless nations are a problem for everyone. I also believe that the existence of the current Israel/Palestine situation is a problem for everyone (see, e.g. the current conflict - a major humanitarian problem for Gaza, potentially a regional conflict, and a major optics problem for the U.S., whose patron state is committing war crimes that we are, for some reason, defending in public).

The U.S. protecting this status quo through its policy of "support for Israel" (in its current form), is in my opinion bad policy. Either we need to (1) put our money where our mouth is and forcefully advocate for/broker a legitimate two-state solution in which Palestine is a real state with full control and sovereignty over its land, which would also require massive foreign aid to build out infrastructure and institutions so that it actually can be a functioning state; or (2) put enormous pressure on Israel to absorb Palestinians into the country as full, voting citizens with rights, who are treated well, educated properly, and supported in every way by the state. That might mean that Israel is no longer an ethnoreligious state but a multiethnic democracy. It can be done. And, while I hear the arguments that the Jewish people should have their own state, I don't think that is possible or good policy when it comes at the expense of subjugating a population of 2 million Palestinians.

Obviously these options aren't simple. There are a ton of issues to work out, and I realize that neither side is solely a victim or solely an aggressor, and obviously at this point they hate each other. I think either would eventually be preferable to what is going on right now, and I really hate that the U.S.'s policy is to blindly support the Israeli government as though they can do no wrong. It is bad policy for the American people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

Surely you understand that stateless nations are problematic for everyone. Look at the Kurds. They are a nation that has no official state. This has caused them to be attacked, famously with chemical weapons. They are also attackers, historically using terrorism for political violence. Right now, Israelis have a state. And, they have agreed to allow the state of Palestine to operate independently on land that officially belongs to Israel. Israel even foots the bill for all utilities that Palestine uses.

Why isn't this enough? Surely you understand that kicking Israelis out and leaving them stateless would harm all involved. Palestine has practically no governance and Israel has to take care of the people in Palestine. If we say, okay, let's kick out all the Jews and cede all of Israel to a terrorist organization, how do you think that will turn out? And what we would do about the nuclear bombs that Israel has? Turn that over to hamas, too? The so-called pro Palestine movement will be a bit like the dog that caught the car. This is not an outcome that will help actual Palestinians.

Thank you for patiently explaining this. I just cannot with these people. I understand the sentiment but completely unwinding support for Israel will have consequences no one wants! We are stuck with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

As long as you understand what withdrawing US support for Israel means — namely, a regional war in the Middle East that Israel would probably lose and which would likely lead to the deaths of millions of Israeli Jews, among many many others.

Thought excercise here - why is it okay for millions of Palestinians to die with US' help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

So you’re saying the leaders of tomorrow with embrace antisemitism?

it is NOT antisemitism to be against israel

I agree, especial when IDF is behaving like Hamas and killing thousands innocent civilians as collateral damage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

As long as you understand what withdrawing US support for Israel means — namely, a regional war in the Middle East that Israel would probably lose and which would likely lead to the deaths of millions of Israeli Jews, among many many others.

Thought excercise here - why is it okay for millions of Palestinians to die with US' help?

This is total deflection. It is completely non-responsive to what I said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

So you’re saying the leaders of tomorrow with embrace antisemitism?

it is NOT antisemitism to be against israel

I agree, especial when IDF is behaving like Hamas and killing thousands innocent civilians as collateral damage.

When you say against Israel, do you mean against the current government or against Israel’s existence altogether?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

[Anonymous]

The thread title is puzzling. Did the government pass any anti-Jewish laws lately? I haven't heard that it has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thread title is puzzling. Did the government pass any anti-Jewish laws lately? I haven't heard that it has.

Things can get bad even if the government doesn’t pass laws around it.