SAHMs and marriage dynamics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And on the flip side, I'm friends now with two women who are married to a lawyer and a state department worker and they stayed at home to raise the children. Well turns out the men are cheating with multiple people and now they are worried they will leave them. They are in a huge pickle. It's all good till it isn't.

Many SAHM's to lawyers would have more money cut by 50% (in joint property states) than many two-income families. Not sure why that would be a big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I think it's just a status thing for you personally. If all your male friends think this way they are just all wealthy and you are not in touch with men who are overstretched trying to bring in money.

Why do you think it's a status thing, as opposed to the reasons I actually gave? Is it so hard to believe that there are people who feel lucky to have someone who is willing to focus on the kids and home life, rather than more money?

DP. I think some people have a very hard time relating to others. They can’t understand that some men are truly happy with a SAHM and prefer this arrangement. My own father never had any desire for my mom to work and frankly didn’t care. They were both happy with their life. My own husband wants that $$$$$

Yeah, I get that. More money is always better, all things being equal. In my view, all things are not equal though. And yes, I make a good bit of money, though not so much that an extra couple hundred thousand dollars a year wouldn't matter.

A couple hundred thousand dollars a year??? What did I miss here? Are you making a generalization about SAHMs based on the idea that a family is missing out on a couple hundred thousand dollars a year because she’s staying at home?

Yeah, my wife is a lawyer and could be making that much more (or more) if she worked full time. Of course I'm not making generalizations like that. I assume most SAHMs, like most people generally, do not have that kind of earning potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And on the flip side, I'm friends now with two women who are married to a lawyer and a state department worker and they stayed at home to raise the children. Well turns out the men are cheating with multiple people and now they are worried they will leave them. They are in a huge pickle. It's all good till it isn't.

Many SAHM's to lawyers would have more money cut by 50% (in joint property states) than many two-income families. Not sure why that would be a big deal.

Not in Virginia. One of them married after the man bought a house and she doesn't own title either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And on the flip side, I'm friends now with two women who are married to a lawyer and a state department worker and they stayed at home to raise the children. Well turns out the men are cheating with multiple people and now they are worried they will leave them. They are in a huge pickle. It's all good till it isn't.

Many SAHM's to lawyers would have more money cut by 50% (in joint property states) than many two-income families. Not sure why that would be a big deal.

Not in Virginia. One of them married after the man bought a house and she doesn't own title either.

One random anecdote does not make a case. It completely depends on state laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I think it's just a status thing for you personally. If all your male friends think this way they are just all wealthy and you are not in touch with men who are overstretched trying to bring in money.

Why do you think it's a status thing, as opposed to the reasons I actually gave? Is it so hard to believe that there are people who feel lucky to have someone who is willing to focus on the kids and home life, rather than more money?

DP. I think some people have a very hard time relating to others. They can’t understand that some men are truly happy with a SAHM and prefer this arrangement. My own father never had any desire for my mom to work and frankly didn’t care. They were both happy with their life. My own husband wants that $$$$$

Yeah, I get that. More money is always better, all things being equal. In my view, all things are not equal though. And yes, I make a good bit of money, though not so much that an extra couple hundred thousand dollars a year wouldn't matter.

A couple hundred thousand dollars a year??? What did I miss here? Are you making a generalization about SAHMs based on the idea that a family is missing out on a couple hundred thousand dollars a year because she’s staying at home?

Yeah, my wife is a lawyer and could be making that much more (or more) if she worked full time. Of course I'm not making generalizations like that. I assume most SAHMs, like most people generally, do not have that kind of earning potential.

Ha don’t think a generalization like that would be so strange on DCUM! But I see what you’re saying now, and I get it. Our health insurance is over 3K a month and while I do a lot at home, even a job with health insurance would move the needle for us. DH (baby big law partner) is fine with any choice but he’d love it if I got a job with health insurance. I think it’s both true that you can be totally happy if your wife stays at home *and* wish that you could have more money, especially if you want to retire early. (Btw I’m a new poster)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I think it's just a status thing for you personally. If all your male friends think this way they are just all wealthy and you are not in touch with men who are overstretched trying to bring in money.

Why do you think it's a status thing, as opposed to the reasons I actually gave? Is it so hard to believe that there are people who feel lucky to have someone who is willing to focus on the kids and home life, rather than more money?

DP. I think some people have a very hard time relating to others. They can’t understand that some men are truly happy with a SAHM and prefer this arrangement. My own father never had any desire for my mom to work and frankly didn’t care. They were both happy with their life. My own husband wants that $$$$$

Yeah, I get that. More money is always better, all things being equal. In my view, all things are not equal though. And yes, I make a good bit of money, though not so much that an extra couple hundred thousand dollars a year wouldn't matter.

A couple hundred thousand dollars a year??? What did I miss here? Are you making a generalization about SAHMs based on the idea that a family is missing out on a couple hundred thousand dollars a year because she’s staying at home?

Yeah, my wife is a lawyer and could be making that much more (or more) if she worked full time. Of course I'm not making generalizations like that. I assume most SAHMs, like most people generally, do not have that kind of earning potential.

But you are saying you make more than a couple of hundred thousand, not $50k or even $95k which is around the median income in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And on the flip side, I'm friends now with two women who are married to a lawyer and a state department worker and they stayed at home to raise the children. Well turns out the men are cheating with multiple people and now they are worried they will leave them. They are in a huge pickle. It's all good till it isn't.

Many SAHM's to lawyers would have more money cut by 50% (in joint property states) than many two-income families. Not sure why that would be a big deal.

Because you lose earning power (especially dealing with age discrimination) and it’s usually better to have a stable source of income than it is a lump sum. A salary is usually over time going to over time be more money, and there are various circumstances like medical emergencies that can wipe out savings.

I know a lot of former SAHM divorcees are complaining about getting 4M in assets but depending on when the divorce happens, that’s a relatively high sum for the working rich. Most wouldn’t get that much in assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I think it's just a status thing for you personally. If all your male friends think this way they are just all wealthy and you are not in touch with men who are overstretched trying to bring in money.

Why do you think it's a status thing, as opposed to the reasons I actually gave? Is it so hard to believe that there are people who feel lucky to have someone who is willing to focus on the kids and home life, rather than more money?

DP. I think some people have a very hard time relating to others. They can’t understand that some men are truly happy with a SAHM and prefer this arrangement. My own father never had any desire for my mom to work and frankly didn’t care. They were both happy with their life. My own husband wants that $$$$$

Yeah, I get that. More money is always better, all things being equal. In my view, all things are not equal though. And yes, I make a good bit of money, though not so much that an extra couple hundred thousand dollars a year wouldn't matter.

A couple hundred thousand dollars a year??? What did I miss here? Are you making a generalization about SAHMs based on the idea that a family is missing out on a couple hundred thousand dollars a year because she’s staying at home?

Yeah, my wife is a lawyer and could be making that much more (or more) if she worked full time. Of course I'm not making generalizations like that. I assume most SAHMs, like most people generally, do not have that kind of earning potential.

I think you are forgetting that you would have to pay taxes on her income and outsource some (or maybe a lot) of what she does now. You wouldn’t have an extra couple of hundred thousand a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I am not one of the PPs but I would consider that you probably would not hear your male friends talking about their dissatisfaction even if they had it. I worked for years in heavily male-dominated environments and as one of the few women, men confided in me in a way they didn’t confide with others. I remember several “please don’t tell anyone but…” conversations over the years. So I think both you and women you are responding to can both be right: you don’t hear their unhappiness, and the women you are responding to do, and it can be the same group of people.

I actually didn’t like being in that role and deliberately moved away from it: I ended up staying home myself for a period and then gravitating towards work that had a better male/female balance. But while I was there, I saw and learned a great deal about male unhappiness. It wasn’t inappropriate, and they certainly weren’t mean about their wives (they clearly loved them) but I saw a side of them that I’m pretty sure they didn’t show a lot of people.

This is actually a professional issue for women who work in male-dominated environments: the only woman gets put unconsciously in an an “office therapist” role. I was too young to realize it at the time, I just knew I didn’t like it. It’s only been years later that I’ve understood that this is a not uncommon work dynamic that nowadays women are warned about in professional conferences and such.

I’m just saying that people are complicated and I think men can simultaneously be proud and happy about having a SAHW and also very stressed and unhappy about it. It is very possible to hold all those feelings at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I am not one of the PPs but I would consider that you probably would not hear your male friends talking about their dissatisfaction even if they had it. I worked for years in heavily male-dominated environments and as one of the few women, men confided in me in a way they didn’t confide with others. I remember several “please don’t tell anyone but…” conversations over the years. So I think both you and women you are responding to can both be right: you don’t hear their unhappiness, and the women you are responding to do, and it can be the same group of people.

I actually didn’t like being in that role and deliberately moved away from it: I ended up staying home myself for a period and then gravitating towards work that had a better male/female balance. But while I was there, I saw and learned a great deal about male unhappiness. It wasn’t inappropriate, and they certainly weren’t mean about their wives (they clearly loved them) but I saw a side of them that I’m pretty sure they didn’t show a lot of people.

This is actually a professional issue for women who work in male-dominated environments: the only woman gets put unconsciously in an an “office therapist” role. I was too young to realize it at the time, I just knew I didn’t like it. It’s only been years later that I’ve understood that this is a not uncommon work dynamic that nowadays women are warned about in professional conferences and such.

I’m just saying that people are complicated and I think men can simultaneously be proud and happy about having a SAHW and also very stressed and unhappy about it. It is very possible to hold all those feelings at the same time.

They were trying to get in your pants and figured putting down the SAHM wife to a career woman would win them points. For real. I’m not even a dude and can figure that one out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I am not one of the PPs but I would consider that you probably would not hear your male friends talking about their dissatisfaction even if they had it. I worked for years in heavily male-dominated environments and as one of the few women, men confided in me in a way they didn’t confide with others. I remember several “please don’t tell anyone but…” conversations over the years. So I think both you and women you are responding to can both be right: you don’t hear their unhappiness, and the women you are responding to do, and it can be the same group of people.

I actually didn’t like being in that role and deliberately moved away from it: I ended up staying home myself for a period and then gravitating towards work that had a better male/female balance. But while I was there, I saw and learned a great deal about male unhappiness. It wasn’t inappropriate, and they certainly weren’t mean about their wives (they clearly loved them) but I saw a side of them that I’m pretty sure they didn’t show a lot of people.

This is actually a professional issue for women who work in male-dominated environments: the only woman gets put unconsciously in an an “office therapist” role. I was too young to realize it at the time, I just knew I didn’t like it. It’s only been years later that I’ve understood that this is a not uncommon work dynamic that nowadays women are warned about in professional conferences and such.

I’m just saying that people are complicated and I think men can simultaneously be proud and happy about having a SAHW and also very stressed and unhappy about it. It is very possible to hold all those feelings at the same time.

They were trying to get in your pants and figured putting down the SAHM wife to a career woman would win them points. For real. I’m not even a dude and can figure that one out!

I’m the PP, and no, I don’t think so. But even if that were true, surely that itself is a pretty problematic fact. And they weren’t putting their wives down, not exactly. Just more talking about how stressed and unhappy they were being the sole provider and sometimes wondering about their lives if their SAHWs brought in more income. That seems like an odd pick-up line to me, but who knows. I was young and did not know enough to redirect the conversations. Either way, I think it remains true that I saw a side of them they probably didn’t show many people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I am not one of the PPs but I would consider that you probably would not hear your male friends talking about their dissatisfaction even if they had it. I worked for years in heavily male-dominated environments and as one of the few women, men confided in me in a way they didn’t confide with others. I remember several “please don’t tell anyone but…” conversations over the years. So I think both you and women you are responding to can both be right: you don’t hear their unhappiness, and the women you are responding to do, and it can be the same group of people.

I actually didn’t like being in that role and deliberately moved away from it: I ended up staying home myself for a period and then gravitating towards work that had a better male/female balance. But while I was there, I saw and learned a great deal about male unhappiness. It wasn’t inappropriate, and they certainly weren’t mean about their wives (they clearly loved them) but I saw a side of them that I’m pretty sure they didn’t show a lot of people.

This is actually a professional issue for women who work in male-dominated environments: the only woman gets put unconsciously in an an “office therapist” role. I was too young to realize it at the time, I just knew I didn’t like it. It’s only been years later that I’ve understood that this is a not uncommon work dynamic that nowadays women are warned about in professional conferences and such.

I’m just saying that people are complicated and I think men can simultaneously be proud and happy about having a SAHW and also very stressed and unhappy about it. It is very possible to hold all those feelings at the same time.

I definitely agree with your last paragraph but the original PP said they lose respect for their wives. I’m sure some do but that’s very different from being happy about the pros and bummed about the cons. I feel the same way about the very fact that my husband has a job that makes it much harder for me to work anything more than a hobby job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I am not one of the PPs but I would consider that you probably would not hear your male friends talking about their dissatisfaction even if they had it. I worked for years in heavily male-dominated environments and as one of the few women, men confided in me in a way they didn’t confide with others. I remember several “please don’t tell anyone but…” conversations over the years. So I think both you and women you are responding to can both be right: you don’t hear their unhappiness, and the women you are responding to do, and it can be the same group of people.

I actually didn’t like being in that role and deliberately moved away from it: I ended up staying home myself for a period and then gravitating towards work that had a better male/female balance. But while I was there, I saw and learned a great deal about male unhappiness. It wasn’t inappropriate, and they certainly weren’t mean about their wives (they clearly loved them) but I saw a side of them that I’m pretty sure they didn’t show a lot of people.

This is actually a professional issue for women who work in male-dominated environments: the only woman gets put unconsciously in an an “office therapist” role. I was too young to realize it at the time, I just knew I didn’t like it. It’s only been years later that I’ve understood that this is a not uncommon work dynamic that nowadays women are warned about in professional conferences and such.

I’m just saying that people are complicated and I think men can simultaneously be proud and happy about having a SAHW and also very stressed and unhappy about it. It is very possible to hold all those feelings at the same time.

I definitely agree with your last paragraph but the original PP said they lose respect for their wives. I’m sure some do but that’s very different from being happy about the pros and bummed about the cons. I feel the same way about the very fact that my husband has a job that makes it much harder for me to work anything more than a hobby job.

I’m the PP and I definitely remember sensing a lack of respect from some of them. Not really talking badly about their wives, just more not really talking about them as if they were independent adults. But like I said, it’s been awhile and I was young and I probably missed some nuances. Honestly it makes me kind of mad for those wives years later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.

I am not one of the PPs but I would consider that you probably would not hear your male friends talking about their dissatisfaction even if they had it. I worked for years in heavily male-dominated environments and as one of the few women, men confided in me in a way they didn’t confide with others. I remember several “please don’t tell anyone but…” conversations over the years. So I think both you and women you are responding to can both be right: you don’t hear their unhappiness, and the women you are responding to do, and it can be the same group of people.

I actually didn’t like being in that role and deliberately moved away from it: I ended up staying home myself for a period and then gravitating towards work that had a better male/female balance. But while I was there, I saw and learned a great deal about male unhappiness. It wasn’t inappropriate, and they certainly weren’t mean about their wives (they clearly loved them) but I saw a side of them that I’m pretty sure they didn’t show a lot of people.

This is actually a professional issue for women who work in male-dominated environments: the only woman gets put unconsciously in an an “office therapist” role. I was too young to realize it at the time, I just knew I didn’t like it. It’s only been years later that I’ve understood that this is a not uncommon work dynamic that nowadays women are warned about in professional conferences and such.

I’m just saying that people are complicated and I think men can simultaneously be proud and happy about having a SAHW and also very stressed and unhappy about it. It is very possible to hold all those feelings at the same time.

I definitely agree with your last paragraph but the original PP said they lose respect for their wives. I’m sure some do but that’s very different from being happy about the pros and bummed about the cons. I feel the same way about the very fact that my husband has a job that makes it much harder for me to work anything more than a hobby job.

I’m the PP and I definitely remember sensing a lack of respect from some of them. Not really talking badly about their wives, just more not really talking about them as if they were independent adults. But like I said, it’s been awhile and I was young and I probably missed some nuances. Honestly it makes me kind of mad for those wives years later.

NP here and I think the ones whose wives had kids later and leaned out of a good career (and often still kept a foot in the field) were talked about differently than the ones whose kids had wives earlier and whose careers never really launched and had kids early after a couple years of working in a job like admin assistant or teaching assistant. In the first case, the husband kind of knows the wife could step it up if absolutely needed and the wife has seen enough of the working world to truly understand how to be supportive. In the second case, these things aren't true.

[Anonymous]

when one person works a job and the other works at home the marriage dynamic is:

Work-outside-the-house spouse supports the work-at-home spouse by working their ass off at work.

Work-at-home spouse supports the work-outside-the-house spouse by working their ass off at home (i.e., cook, clean, logistics, kids, etc.)

This allows both to specialize and makes them more efficient in their specific tasks.

It is difficult and distracting to work my job AND juggle running the house at the same time.

The work-at-home spouse needs to remember that the person working the job is working to support their ability to stay home with the kids and manage the house.

Where people lose respect for stay-at-home people is when they are not part of the overall gameplan/team. They spend time at starbucks and shopping and complaining about the work-outside-home spouse rather than working on a joint financial/family plan.