US has no good options in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

Yes. I am from Central Europe. Ukrainians are our neighbors; we share a similar history and culture. And yes, they look and behave like us. We are neighbors. Of course I am more ready to help and do something about the situation. Makes sense.

Western European here. I agree. It's true that central and eastern Europeans have this reputation of being racist against Jews and people of color and non-Christians. Perhaps they have not had many opportunities to see them up up close in economically advantageous conditions (with exceptions). Western Europe has its own problems with Arabs, Muslims, Africans, Jews, etc...

Having said all this, and despite NOT BEING 100% WHITE MYSELF, I feel more kinship towards Ukrainians than to displaced and oppressed people elsewhere. Why? Because we are all European, and that counts for a lot.
We all remember the scars of WWII, we all remember the siege of Sarajevo, we all remember the Bosnian genocide. We feel physical repulsion at the idea of another massive land war on European soil.

This is what I’m talking about. Look PPs need to just be clear and say things with their chest. Don’t say “have this reputation” and “perhaps”.

Use honest terms. “Are” is more clear and accurate if you sub it for the above phrases.

It’s funny that Ukraine will get EU membership before Turkey for example even though Turkey is doing more than almost anyone to save Ukrainians with drones.

Why? It isn’t because of gdp/per capita (Turkey is a basketcase but richer even on that metric).

It is because of looks and Islam.

I don’t have a horse in this either way, I’m just curious why people can’t be clear and honest about these things.

What will be interesting is as the US becomes more brown and diverse, as a body politic, it’ll start to Very slowly change American foreign policy that was par for course in the post ww2 era.

I can tell you that average black and brown people (who are not in the dc space) are pretty tuned out to what’s happening in Ukraine.

PP you replied to. Stop being annoying. We are not going to say "Europeans are racist" just to comply with your worldview. Why? Because I'm a European and I'm not racist! The Central European who is posting here is surely not racist either, if they are posting from the DC area - they must be educated and have quite a bit of experience to have made it all the way to DC.

My Grandmother was terribly racist. We all know racist people. But it's stupid to say ALL Europeans are racist. Would you like it if we said ALL Americans are racist? It wouldn't be true, would it?

So stop it. And again, I want to emphasize here that I am of mixed ethnicity. Many people in Europe are not white. Just like here.



Turkey’s gonna join the eu then? I mean they’ve been in NATO for 70 years and are doing the most to help Ukrainians. But I bet you the average ukrainian will be treated better in Europe than the average Turk. Btw, it’s an example - I’m not Turkish or Islamic. I’m just stating what are facts.

😂

It’s ok. You can be politically incorrect. I live part time in Portugal. Europeans are allowed to be politically incorrect. Just keep that energy in this discourse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

And don't forget that most of the Ukrainian refugees entered Poland. The Poles HATE the Russians. DESPISE. LOATHE. RUSSIA. So the Poles are happy to do whatever they can to welcome Ukrainians escape the Russian aggression.

Poland has not been welcoming whatsoever to noncaucasian and/or Muslim refugees. Educate oneself on the refugee crisis between Belarus and Poland. I don’t know exactly where they’re coming from, but there is a constant pilgrimage of refugees coming into Belarus to get to Poland, the first country in the EU. So the two countries have been fighting over what to do with them. Poland has set up huge fences, sprays them chemicals and water, heavily arms their boarder, shines bright lights on them constantly, won’t let them in to seek asylum. Belarus doesn’t know what to do with them, claims they don’t want asylum or to stay in Belarus so they won’t leave the boarder, create huge makeshift refugee camps along the border in the woods. Poland says Belarus encourages the refugees to go to the Polish border and are forcing them to stay there to upset Poland, that they’re using the refugees as puppets. Videos of the sheer volume/numbers of migrants are incredible, thousands at a time.

They look like they may be coming from Syria, but I don’t know. Poland doesn’t want them. It’s a major conflict between them and Belarus.

So now look at what’s happening with Ukraine. It’s not surprising Poland would be hesitant to accept anyone that isn’t from the Ukraine or doesn’t look stereotypical Ukrainian, given just north in Belarus there are thousands of refugees trying to cross into Poland. I believe a fear/conspiracy has been these people may have crossed into the Ukraine and are now trying to get into Poland with Ukrainians.

So now you’ve got Poland allowing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to cross, in one week, but they wouldn’t let hardly any of the dark skinned, black haired, brown eyed people come in from Belarus, many of whom are also fleeing war. It is what it is, not my theories. But it’s still depressing.

Ummm. Did you not see that Belarus INVITED and FLEW many migrants in with the promise of getting them into the EU via Poland. Most wanted to get to Germany. They didn’t magically appear in Belarus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

High IQ people are underdeveloped in many other areas. They make the wrong, tunnel vision decisions, all the time, which is why they usually managed by slightly above average IQ people up the food chain.

So true in my work experiences — but this is DCUM-landia. This won’t register. See the school forums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I suspect he's so brutal in Ukraine because he's trying to provoke NATO and its allies into further action, such as defending air space over Ukraine. The worse this gets, the harder it becomes ethically not to get involved. His deliberate and brutal targeting of civilians is designed to provoke us further into what looks a lot like the beginning of a world war.

I don't think that was his original intention - he really thought Ukrainians would welcome him, and the government would present much weaker opposition. But ultimately you're correct: there are reports of mass casualities, and as they increase, it will get harder and harder to avoid military intervention from NATO. I hope we can avoid it, because that is WWIII guaranteed.

What must happen, I hope, is that the West makes the sacrifice to stop buying oil and gas from Russia. It is literally what's propping up the Putin regime. No other client can make up for NATO countries, which are Russia's biggest clients by far. For some European countries, it will be a HUGE sacrifice - their populations will have difficulty heating their homes next winter, let alone using their cars. Agriculture will be particularly hard hit. Luckily, we are moving into Spring right now, so the psychological timing for popular opinion may be just lukewarm enough that governments in Germany and other places heavily dependent on Russian energy may be pressured into it, if images of genocide are emotional enough.

And that would be stop the war in its tracks. Russia cannot survive without its sales of energy.

So what we must advocate for, all of us, is a system of energy support for countries who need it the most (Germany, etc) in this time of crisis. We need to share resources. We need to make concessions to OPEC countries to strike some kind of deal. Pain at the pump will be significant, but that is the price of toppling the Russian regime which has been oppressing its citizens for decades, and murdering its neighbors and others civilians in war zones around the world.

Please call your senators and congresspeople.

+ 100 Billion
Yes, yes, yes!!
The West seems to think they can impose sanctions on Russia without feeling any pain themselves!!
It's crazy and completely politically calculated.
Yes, all the pols will get voted out when inflation goes crazy after gas and oil prices go crazy after completely cutting off Russian sales of gas and oil
BUT, there is oil in the middle east, and Biden has to ask for it to fulfill Europe's need for the moment.
Also, ALL companies in the west must cease doing business with Russia immediately, like TODAY!
How many more Ukrainians are going to be slaughtered? Must we let all those Ukrainian kids with cancer die because we don't want to pay more for gas? Where is the compassion of the West?
Because we can't pay more at the pump or keep our houses colder, or just drive less, or take public transport, all these Ukrainians have to DIE???
Where is the compassion of the West?

Please stop your stupid "we need to pay more" agenda, you commie sock-puppet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

Yes. I am from Central Europe. Ukrainians are our neighbors; we share a similar history and culture. And yes, they look and behave like us. We are neighbors. Of course I am more ready to help and do something about the situation. Makes sense.

Western European here. I agree. It's true that central and eastern Europeans have this reputation of being racist against Jews and people of color and non-Christians. Perhaps they have not had many opportunities to see them up up close in economically advantageous conditions (with exceptions). Western Europe has its own problems with Arabs, Muslims, Africans, Jews, etc...

Having said all this, and despite NOT BEING 100% WHITE MYSELF, I feel more kinship towards Ukrainians than to displaced and oppressed people elsewhere. Why? Because we are all European, and that counts for a lot.
We all remember the scars of WWII, we all remember the siege of Sarajevo, we all remember the Bosnian genocide. We feel physical repulsion at the idea of another massive land war on European soil.

This is what I’m talking about. Look PPs need to just be clear and say things with their chest. Don’t say “have this reputation” and “perhaps”.

Use honest terms. “Are” is more clear and accurate if you sub it for the above phrases.

It’s funny that Ukraine will get EU membership before Turkey for example even though Turkey is doing more than almost anyone to save Ukrainians with drones.

Why? It isn’t because of gdp/per capita (Turkey is a basketcase but richer even on that metric).

It is because of looks and Islam.

I don’t have a horse in this either way, I’m just curious why people can’t be clear and honest about these things.

What will be interesting is as the US becomes more brown and diverse, as a body politic, it’ll start to Very slowly change American foreign policy that was par for course in the post ww2 era.

I can tell you that average black and brown people (who are not in the dc space) are pretty tuned out to what’s happening in Ukraine.

PP you replied to. Stop being annoying. We are not going to say "Europeans are racist" just to comply with your worldview. Why? Because I'm a European and I'm not racist! The Central European who is posting here is surely not racist either, if they are posting from the DC area - they must be educated and have quite a bit of experience to have made it all the way to DC.

My Grandmother was terribly racist. We all know racist people. But it's stupid to say ALL Europeans are racist. Would you like it if we said ALL Americans are racist? It wouldn't be true, would it?

So stop it. And again, I want to emphasize here that I am of mixed ethnicity. Many people in Europe are not white. Just like here.

Turkey’s gonna join the eu then? I mean they’ve been in NATO for 70 years and are doing the most to help Ukrainians. But I bet you the average ukrainian will be treated better in Europe than the average Turk. Btw, it’s an example - I’m not Turkish or Islamic. I’m just stating what are facts.

😂

It’s ok. You can be politically incorrect. I live part time in Portugal. Europeans are allowed to be politically incorrect. Just keep that energy in this discourse.



Nobody knows how these refugees will be treated. Likely a lot of them are well educated in the fields that would benefit European economy, and some probably already had ties with Europe and jobs there. And certainly there will be a flood of those competing for lower paying jobs with the Europeans, I also don't think Poland would be able to absorb all of them, many will likely be going to other countries of Europe and even into the USA. In terms of language Ukrainians would find easier time in Eastern Europe vs. Western Europe as it's not likely they mastered other European languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ Israel is a close ally of the US, yet has not supported the US over Ukraine. “I’m deeply disappointed that they have not supported the United States,” says former US Defense Secretary William Cohen. “They do have to make a decision here.”

- Christiane Amanpour

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1498733861492207624?s=21

Too bad this is a lie. Ignores that facts that Israeli foreign minister has spoken out against Russia over this, has voted to condemn Russia in the UN, offered to mediate talks, and sent something like 100 tons of humanitarian aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

Lol, when in doubt divert to insults. I notice that you didn't make any effort to counter.

Here's some facts. Tell me what's wrong.
1. Indians think this is a white people problem right now so they don't care. They also think it's contained to Europe.
2. Pakistan met with Putin on the day the invasion started.
3. China is building a massive port in Baluchistan.
4. Pakistan is basically allied with Russia and China at this point.
5. Turkish drones have decimated Russian military equipment.
6. Turkey has no problem exporting to Pakistan.
7. If Russia gets away with this invasion of territorial expansion then Pakistan and China will think about doing the same thing.

In short: The Russian military equipment India relies on has been found wanting. India's enemies are teaming up together and Russia's actions increase the chances that they will act.

Handwave these facts away. Deflect towards racialization. Facts are still facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Israel is a close ally of the US, yet has not supported the US over Ukraine. “I’m deeply disappointed that they have not supported the United States,” says former US Defense Secretary William Cohen. “They do have to make a decision here.”

- Christiane Amanpour

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1498733861492207624?s=21

Too bad this is a lie. Ignores that facts that Israeli foreign minister has spoken out against Russia over this, has voted to condemn Russia in the UN, offered to mediate talks, and sent something like 100 tons of humanitarian aid.

Israel is not part of the sanctions regime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

Also you're clearly not desi. No Indian person will ever claim that any other people have a higher IQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I suspect he's so brutal in Ukraine because he's trying to provoke NATO and its allies into further action, such as defending air space over Ukraine. The worse this gets, the harder it becomes ethically not to get involved. His deliberate and brutal targeting of civilians is designed to provoke us further into what looks a lot like the beginning of a world war.

I don't think that was his original intention - he really thought Ukrainians would welcome him, and the government would present much weaker opposition. But ultimately you're correct: there are reports of mass casualities, and as they increase, it will get harder and harder to avoid military intervention from NATO. I hope we can avoid it, because that is WWIII guaranteed.

What must happen, I hope, is that the West makes the sacrifice to stop buying oil and gas from Russia. It is literally what's propping up the Putin regime. No other client can make up for NATO countries, which are Russia's biggest clients by far. For some European countries, it will be a HUGE sacrifice - their populations will have difficulty heating their homes next winter, let alone using their cars. Agriculture will be particularly hard hit. Luckily, we are moving into Spring right now, so the psychological timing for popular opinion may be just lukewarm enough that governments in Germany and other places heavily dependent on Russian energy may be pressured into it, if images of genocide are emotional enough.

And that would be stop the war in its tracks. Russia cannot survive without its sales of energy.

So what we must advocate for, all of us, is a system of energy support for countries who need it the most (Germany, etc) in this time of crisis. We need to share resources. We need to make concessions to OPEC countries to strike some kind of deal. Pain at the pump will be significant, but that is the price of toppling the Russian regime which has been oppressing its citizens for decades, and murdering its neighbors and others civilians in war zones around the world.

Please call your senators and congresspeople.

+ 100 Billion
Yes, yes, yes!!
The West seems to think they can impose sanctions on Russia without feeling any pain themselves!!
It's crazy and completely politically calculated.
Yes, all the pols will get voted out when inflation goes crazy after gas and oil prices go crazy after completely cutting off Russian sales of gas and oil
BUT, there is oil in the middle east, and Biden has to ask for it to fulfill Europe's need for the moment.
Also, ALL companies in the west must cease doing business with Russia immediately, like TODAY!
How many more Ukrainians are going to be slaughtered? Must we let all those Ukrainian kids with cancer die because we don't want to pay more for gas? Where is the compassion of the West?
Because we can't pay more at the pump or keep our houses colder, or just drive less, or take public transport, all these Ukrainians have to DIE???
Where is the compassion of the West?

Please stop your stupid "we need to pay more" agenda, you commie sock-puppet.

The PP above you was responding to my post, and we are not the same person. Also, weird insult.

[Anonymous]

Well, after Ukraine has been branded by russia for the past 10 years, the US now joins the honorary title as per Lavrov.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10573123/Sergei-Lavrov-repeats-warning-WW3-nuclear-likens-NAZIS.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

Lol, when in doubt divert to insults. I notice that you didn't make any effort to counter.

Here's some facts. Tell me what's wrong.
1. Indians think this is a white people problem right now so they don't care. They also think it's contained to Europe.
2. Pakistan met with Putin on the day the invasion started.
3. China is building a massive port in Baluchistan.
4. Pakistan is basically allied with Russia and China at this point.
5. Turkish drones have decimated Russian military equipment.
6. Turkey has no problem exporting to Pakistan.
7. If Russia gets away with this invasion of territorial expansion then Pakistan and China will think about doing the same thing.

In short: The Russian military equipment India relies on has been found wanting. India's enemies are teaming up together and Russia's actions increase the chances that they will act.

Handwave these facts away. Deflect towards racialization. Facts are still facts.

1-3 is correct
4 - Pakistan has a relationship with the us as well. A much stronger one than it has with Russia. That doesn’t stop the us having a relationship with India. It’s about the strength of the relationship and Russia’s relationship with India is much stronger then the one it has with Pakistan.

The us hasn’t proven to Indian people yet that it is an “all weather” relationship. Put it this way, the gap between Russia-india and Russia-Pakistan relationship is way larger than the us-india and us-Pakistan relationship.

5/6 - Turkish drones have done well in third party battlefields right now. More data is needed on how they would do on homeland strikes when faced with way more adiz. Pakistan equipped drones in India-pal border regions is a differnt battle space than any they’ve faced before.

7. Border disputes will continue regardless. They were a huge issue well before Russia’s operations. Until the US can be trusted to be a 100% all weather friend, India must chart a middle course.

Also, russian equipment failures remain to be truly tested. Rather than euipment, it’s a will issue. Russian equipment worked fine in Syria. Russian soldiers and Russian logistics are just half assed.

India is taking the long view on this. I do want India to be allied more with the us but the us has to give India inducements.. Bloomberg had a good piece on this yesterday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Israel is a close ally of the US, yet has not supported the US over Ukraine. “I’m deeply disappointed that they have not supported the United States,” says former US Defense Secretary William Cohen. “They do have to make a decision here.”

- Christiane Amanpour

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1498733861492207624?s=21

Too bad this is a lie. Ignores that facts that Israeli foreign minister has spoken out against Russia over this, has voted to condemn Russia in the UN, offered to mediate talks, and sent something like 100 tons of humanitarian aid.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/03/03/why-isnt-israel-strongly-supporting-the-us-on-ukraine/

Sorry, israel is charting it’s own path on this.

Even Lindsey Graham, the most Jewish of gentiles, is mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ Israel is a close ally of the US, yet has not supported the US over Ukraine. “I’m deeply disappointed that they have not supported the United States,” says former US Defense Secretary William Cohen. “They do have to make a decision here.”

- Christiane Amanpour

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1498733861492207624?s=21

Too bad this is a lie. Ignores that facts that Israeli foreign minister has spoken out against Russia over this, has voted to condemn Russia in the UN, offered to mediate talks, and sent something like 100 tons of humanitarian aid.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/03/03/why-isnt-israel-strongly-supporting-the-us-on-ukraine/

Sorry, israel is charting it’s own path on this.

Even Lindsey Graham, the most Jewish of gentiles, is mad.

Why is Israel not willing to sell Ukraine the iron dome defensive missiles?
I read the article, I thought that was a people they would stand with Ukraine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

Lol, when in doubt divert to insults. I notice that you didn't make any effort to counter.

Here's some facts. Tell me what's wrong.
1. Indians think this is a white people problem right now so they don't care. They also think it's contained to Europe.
2. Pakistan met with Putin on the day the invasion started.
3. China is building a massive port in Baluchistan.
4. Pakistan is basically allied with Russia and China at this point.
5. Turkish drones have decimated Russian military equipment.
6. Turkey has no problem exporting to Pakistan.
7. If Russia gets away with this invasion of territorial expansion then Pakistan and China will think about doing the same thing.

In short: The Russian military equipment India relies on has been found wanting. India's enemies are teaming up together and Russia's actions increase the chances that they will act.

Handwave these facts away. Deflect towards racialization. Facts are still facts.

1-3 is correct
4 - Pakistan has a relationship with the us as well. A much stronger one than it has with Russia. That doesn’t stop the us having a relationship with India. It’s about the strength of the relationship and Russia’s relationship with India is much stronger then the one it has with Pakistan.

The us hasn’t proven to Indian people yet that it is an “all weather” relationship. Put it this way, the gap between Russia-india and Russia-Pakistan relationship is way larger than the us-india and us-Pakistan relationship.

5/6 - Turkish drones have done well in third party battlefields right now. More data is needed on how they would do on homeland strikes when faced with way more adiz. Pakistan equipped drones in India-pal border regions is a differnt battle space than any they’ve faced before.

7. Border disputes will continue regardless. They were a huge issue well before Russia’s operations. Until the US can be trusted to be a 100% all weather friend, India must chart a middle course.

Also, russian equipment failures remain to be truly tested. Rather than euipment, it’s a will issue. Russian equipment worked fine in Syria. Russian soldiers and Russian logistics are just half assed.

India is taking the long view on this. I do want India to be allied more with the us but the us has to give India inducements.. Bloomberg had a good piece on this yesterday.

+1. NP and another desi here. India is in a precarious position (geopolitically with neighbors like Pakistan and China). So it would make all the sense in the world to align themselves with the US. *However*, the US is a fair weather friend to the world's largest democracy. Sad to say, but it's true. Is it because they're not white? Not Judeo-Christian? Maybe. Probably. At any rate, they will *never* have the special status of Israel, though they deal with many of the same issues (surrounded by hostile neighbors, not being the same religion as most of its neighbors, etc). Also, my understanding is that India is pretty reliant on Russian oil these days, so the US/West would have to give them a deal to avoid using Russian oil. These types of restrictions causing price hikes ($7 gas, etc) will have a large impact on everyday Americans, but it will cripple most Indians.