US has no good options in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

“ Israel is a close ally of the US, yet has not supported the US over Ukraine. “I’m deeply disappointed that they have not supported the United States,” says former US Defense Secretary William Cohen. “They do have to make a decision here.”

- Christiane Amanpour

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1498733861492207624?s=21

[Anonymous]

In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

Yes. I am from Central Europe. Ukrainians are our neighbors; we share a similar history and culture. And yes, they look and behave like us. We are neighbors. Of course I am more ready to help and do something about the situation. Makes sense.

Western European here. I agree. It's true that central and eastern Europeans have this reputation of being racist against Jews and people of color and non-Christians. Perhaps they have not had many opportunities to see them up up close in economically advantageous conditions (with exceptions). Western Europe has its own problems with Arabs, Muslims, Africans, Jews, etc...

Having said all this, and despite NOT BEING 100% WHITE MYSELF, I feel more kinship towards Ukrainians than to displaced and oppressed people elsewhere. Why? Because we are all European, and that counts for a lot.
We all remember the scars of WWII, we all remember the siege of Sarajevo, we all remember the Bosnian genocide. We feel physical repulsion at the idea of another massive land war on European soil.

This is what I’m talking about. Look PPs need to just be clear and say things with their chest. Don’t say “have this reputation” and “perhaps”.

Use honest terms. “Are” is more clear and accurate if you sub it for the above phrases.

It’s funny that Ukraine will get EU membership before Turkey for example even though Turkey is doing more than almost anyone to save Ukrainians with drones.

Why? It isn’t because of gdp/per capita (Turkey is a basketcase but richer even on that metric).

It is because of looks and Islam.

I don’t have a horse in this either way, I’m just curious why people can’t be clear and honest about these things.

What will be interesting is as the US becomes more brown and diverse, as a body politic, it’ll start to Very slowly change American foreign policy that was par for course in the post ww2 era.

I can tell you that average black and brown people (who are not in the dc space) are pretty tuned out to what’s happening in Ukraine.

As a black person I can’t help but think this is true. The US did the exact same thing as Putin did back in 2003 with Iraq. The white, western world wasn’t outraged. Why? I can’t help but think that part of it was because Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are brown and Muslim.

Should the US financial system have been shut off from the world and should US athletes be banned from the olympics because of the invasion of Iraq?

The Mesopotamians are White.

No, the US did not do the same thing. Most importantly we did not claim Iraq as our own territory, deny the existence of Iraqis, or postulate a "final solution" to the iraq problem.

Besides, two wrongs dont make a right. So what's your point? Because it sounds like you're saying what Russia is doing to Ukraine is acceptable.

[Anonymous]

So that’s israel, Latin America, India, huge swaths of Africa that are not toeing the us/eu line.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

And don't forget that most of the Ukrainian refugees entered Poland. The Poles HATE the Russians. DESPISE. LOATHE. RUSSIA. So the Poles are happy to do whatever they can to welcome Ukrainians escape the Russian aggression.

Poland has not been welcoming whatsoever to noncaucasian and/or Muslim refugees. Educate oneself on the refugee crisis between Belarus and Poland. I don’t know exactly where they’re coming from, but there is a constant pilgrimage of refugees coming into Belarus to get to Poland, the first country in the EU. So the two countries have been fighting over what to do with them. Poland has set up huge fences, sprays them chemicals and water, heavily arms their boarder, shines bright lights on them constantly, won’t let them in to seek asylum. Belarus doesn’t know what to do with them, claims they don’t want asylum or to stay in Belarus so they won’t leave the boarder, create huge makeshift refugee camps along the border in the woods. Poland says Belarus encourages the refugees to go to the Polish border and are forcing them to stay there to upset Poland, that they’re using the refugees as puppets. Videos of the sheer volume/numbers of migrants are incredible, thousands at a time.

They look like they may be coming from Syria, but I don’t know. Poland doesn’t want them. It’s a major conflict between them and Belarus.

So now look at what’s happening with Ukraine. It’s not surprising Poland would be hesitant to accept anyone that isn’t from the Ukraine or doesn’t look stereotypical Ukrainian, given just north in Belarus there are thousands of refugees trying to cross into Poland. I believe a fear/conspiracy has been these people may have crossed into the Ukraine and are now trying to get into Poland with Ukrainians.

So now you’ve got Poland allowing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to cross, in one week, but they wouldn’t let hardly any of the dark skinned, black haired, brown eyed people come in from Belarus, many of whom are also fleeing war. It is what it is, not my theories. But it’s still depressing.

Plenty of Ukrainians are dark haired and brown eyed.. Are you familiar with Winnona Ryder and Mila Kunis? I would find it strange how they will distinguish lighter skinned middle eastern people from some of the Ukrainians. It's not going to be done by looks, they will be letting in Ukrainians coming in together as organized groups and checking papers, that's how it will be done, by checking papers, not by looks It's probably also true that many of the refugees trying to cross the border into Poland before this conflict were illegals and didn't have visas to enter Poland or documents to seek asylum as Poland didn't make an agreement to accept them as refugees. Since they agreed to accept Ukrainian refugees anyone with the papers from this country regardless of looks would be admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

Yes. I am from Central Europe. Ukrainians are our neighbors; we share a similar history and culture. And yes, they look and behave like us. We are neighbors. Of course I am more ready to help and do something about the situation. Makes sense.

Western European here. I agree. It's true that central and eastern Europeans have this reputation of being racist against Jews and people of color and non-Christians. Perhaps they have not had many opportunities to see them up up close in economically advantageous conditions (with exceptions). Western Europe has its own problems with Arabs, Muslims, Africans, Jews, etc...

Having said all this, and despite NOT BEING 100% WHITE MYSELF, I feel more kinship towards Ukrainians than to displaced and oppressed people elsewhere. Why? Because we are all European, and that counts for a lot.
We all remember the scars of WWII, we all remember the siege of Sarajevo, we all remember the Bosnian genocide. We feel physical repulsion at the idea of another massive land war on European soil.

This is what I’m talking about. Look PPs need to just be clear and say things with their chest. Don’t say “have this reputation” and “perhaps”.

Use honest terms. “Are” is more clear and accurate if you sub it for the above phrases.

It’s funny that Ukraine will get EU membership before Turkey for example even though Turkey is doing more than almost anyone to save Ukrainians with drones.

Why? It isn’t because of gdp/per capita (Turkey is a basketcase but richer even on that metric).

It is because of looks and Islam.

I don’t have a horse in this either way, I’m just curious why people can’t be clear and honest about these things.

What will be interesting is as the US becomes more brown and diverse, as a body politic, it’ll start to Very slowly change American foreign policy that was par for course in the post ww2 era.

I can tell you that average black and brown people (who are not in the dc space) are pretty tuned out to what’s happening in Ukraine.

As a black person I can’t help but think this is true. The US did the exact same thing as Putin did back in 2003 with Iraq. The white, western world wasn’t outraged. Why? I can’t help but think that part of it was because Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are brown and Muslim.

Should the US financial system have been shut off from the world and should US athletes be banned from the olympics because of the invasion of Iraq?

The Mesopotamians are White.

No, the US did not do the same thing. Most importantly we did not claim Iraq as our own territory, deny the existence of Iraqis, or postulate a "final solution" to the iraq problem.

Besides, two wrongs dont make a right. So what's your point? Because it sounds like you're saying what Russia is doing to Ukraine is acceptable.

Not pp you are directly responding to.

No, what russia is doing is unacceptable. I think nato should intervene and call putin’s bluff.

But that is because of Putin. Putin should’ve done a zero dark thirty style hit on Zelensky if he wanted policy change instead of opening a conventional war.

I don’t blame putin’s reasons - I totally blame him for the means he is using — unacceptable. Call the bluff - bomb the hell out of Belarus as a test.

See if he gets the message if Minsk is razed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

Yes. I am from Central Europe. Ukrainians are our neighbors; we share a similar history and culture. And yes, they look and behave like us. We are neighbors. Of course I am more ready to help and do something about the situation. Makes sense.

Western European here. I agree. It's true that central and eastern Europeans have this reputation of being racist against Jews and people of color and non-Christians. Perhaps they have not had many opportunities to see them up up close in economically advantageous conditions (with exceptions). Western Europe has its own problems with Arabs, Muslims, Africans, Jews, etc...

Having said all this, and despite NOT BEING 100% WHITE MYSELF, I feel more kinship towards Ukrainians than to displaced and oppressed people elsewhere. Why? Because we are all European, and that counts for a lot.
We all remember the scars of WWII, we all remember the siege of Sarajevo, we all remember the Bosnian genocide. We feel physical repulsion at the idea of another massive land war on European soil.

This is what I’m talking about. Look PPs need to just be clear and say things with their chest. Don’t say “have this reputation” and “perhaps”.

Use honest terms. “Are” is more clear and accurate if you sub it for the above phrases.

It’s funny that Ukraine will get EU membership before Turkey for example even though Turkey is doing more than almost anyone to save Ukrainians with drones.

Why? It isn’t because of gdp/per capita (Turkey is a basketcase but richer even on that metric).

It is because of looks and Islam.

I don’t have a horse in this either way, I’m just curious why people can’t be clear and honest about these things.

What will be interesting is as the US becomes more brown and diverse, as a body politic, it’ll start to Very slowly change American foreign policy that was par for course in the post ww2 era.

I can tell you that average black and brown people (who are not in the dc space) are pretty tuned out to what’s happening in Ukraine.

As a black person I can’t help but think this is true. The US did the exact same thing as Putin did back in 2003 with Iraq. The white, western world wasn’t outraged. Why? I can’t help but think that part of it was because Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are brown and Muslim.

Should the US financial system have been shut off from the world and should US athletes be banned from the olympics because of the invasion of Iraq?

The Mesopotamians are White.

No, the US did not do the same thing. Most importantly we did not claim Iraq as our own territory, deny the existence of Iraqis, or postulate a "final solution" to the iraq problem.

Besides, two wrongs dont make a right. So what's your point? Because it sounds like you're saying what Russia is doing to Ukraine is acceptable.

Not pp you are directly responding to.

No, what russia is doing is unacceptable. I think nato should intervene and call putin’s bluff.

But that is because of Putin. Putin should’ve done a zero dark thirty style hit on Zelensky if he wanted policy change instead of opening a conventional war.

I don’t blame putin’s reasons - I totally blame him for the means he is using — unacceptable. Call the bluff - bomb the hell out of Belarus as a test.

See if he gets the message if Minsk is razed.



NP here: I 100% agree. The Russia-led security union will fall apart immediately. Russia will not come to Belarus's rescue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So that’s israel, Latin America, India, huge swaths of Africa that are not toeing the us/eu line.

Interesting.

Very interesting.

Sounds like economically undeveloped countries with a legacy of authoritarian leaders, corruption and violence. Good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

High IQ people are underdeveloped in many other areas. They make the wrong, tunnel vision decisions, all the time, which is why they usually managed by slightly above average IQ people up the food chain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

Yes. I am from Central Europe. Ukrainians are our neighbors; we share a similar history and culture. And yes, they look and behave like us. We are neighbors. Of course I am more ready to help and do something about the situation. Makes sense.

Western European here. I agree. It's true that central and eastern Europeans have this reputation of being racist against Jews and people of color and non-Christians. Perhaps they have not had many opportunities to see them up up close in economically advantageous conditions (with exceptions). Western Europe has its own problems with Arabs, Muslims, Africans, Jews, etc...

Having said all this, and despite NOT BEING 100% WHITE MYSELF, I feel more kinship towards Ukrainians than to displaced and oppressed people elsewhere. Why? Because we are all European, and that counts for a lot.
We all remember the scars of WWII, we all remember the siege of Sarajevo, we all remember the Bosnian genocide. We feel physical repulsion at the idea of another massive land war on European soil.

This is what I’m talking about. Look PPs need to just be clear and say things with their chest. Don’t say “have this reputation” and “perhaps”.

Use honest terms. “Are” is more clear and accurate if you sub it for the above phrases.

It’s funny that Ukraine will get EU membership before Turkey for example even though Turkey is doing more than almost anyone to save Ukrainians with drones.

Why? It isn’t because of gdp/per capita (Turkey is a basketcase but richer even on that metric).

It is because of looks and Islam.

I don’t have a horse in this either way, I’m just curious why people can’t be clear and honest about these things.

What will be interesting is as the US becomes more brown and diverse, as a body politic, it’ll start to Very slowly change American foreign policy that was par for course in the post ww2 era.

I can tell you that average black and brown people (who are not in the dc space) are pretty tuned out to what’s happening in Ukraine.

As a black person I can’t help but think this is true. The US did the exact same thing as Putin did back in 2003 with Iraq. The white, western world wasn’t outraged. Why? I can’t help but think that part of it was because Ukrainians are white and Iraqis are brown and Muslim.

Should the US financial system have been shut off from the world and should US athletes be banned from the olympics because of the invasion of Iraq?

The Mesopotamians are White.

No, the US did not do the same thing. Most importantly we did not claim Iraq as our own territory, deny the existence of Iraqis, or postulate a "final solution" to the iraq problem.

Besides, two wrongs dont make a right. So what's your point? Because it sounds like you're saying what Russia is doing to Ukraine is acceptable.

We don't share a land border with Iraq. Nobody here is saying that what Russia is doing is acceptable But politics involving large nuclear superpowers are complicated for a good reason. A real war between USA and Russia would be the extermination event and will change the world. Ukrainian internal politics is a very complicated matter already because this wasn't a unified cohesive country after 2014. There was some civil war situation already in the Eastern Ukraine and many thousands of military including innocent civilians AND children had died as a result over the years. This makes Ukraine more similar to Balkan situation where we didn't get involved much. Russia obviously took advantage of this vulnerability and used it to attack, but this doesn't mean that kicking Russia out would solve all Ukrainian internal problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia's disaster of an invasion has the opposite effect I think - it makes it much harder for China to invade Taiwan. Look at the vehemently negative world reaction towards Russia that is going to obliterate their economy. It has sped up Germany's diversification away from Russian energy up to 2035 (down from 2050). China went to great lengths during the winter Olympics this year to propagandize the opening ceremony where they tried to show that they were a peaceful country and a great world unifier. Invading Taiwan would ruing the soft image projection Xi is trying to promulgate, and would stoke an anti-Chinese backlash across the world just like what Russia has gotten. That's exactly the opposite of what Xi and the CCP want. The only way they'll take over Taiwan is if they start moving in mainland Chinese and install a pro-Chinese govt to change the culture of many years, just like what they're doing to Hong Kong.

Russia’s invasion has not gone as planned but any military plan ends as soon as action starts. Putin planned to conquer Ukraine in 48 hours. That’s not happening. But now Putin is raining down artillery on Ukrainian cities. Sanctions won’t stop him anymore than they’ve stopped Iran and North Korea.

Tens of thousands of ethnic Russian women and children died in Chechnya, population 1.3M people. Putin has no remorse or care about his own people. For a preview of where this goes look to the Balkans and Milosevic.

Chechnya’s destruction appears to be his game-plan.

But this time, it’s different.

He is slaughtering civilians just a few miles from EU countries; NATO countries.

And this time, he can not control the massive numbers of western journalists witnessing it all.

Another factor: Europeans relate to the Ukrainian people. They look and speak like the part of the EU we used to call Eastern Europe. Europe won’t sand for this, and we have many weapons of economic destruction to deploy against Russia and Belarus.

In contrast, when the Moslem Chechens were slaughtered, the Moslem and Arab world failed to do much to stop Putin.

I don't know if you listen to The Daily podcast, but today they talked about EU actions. Apparently Zelensky's speech to the EU really changed minds about their levels of support, dramatically. Anyway, it was a really interesting episode today. Some of their episodes in general are hit or miss, but I'd recommend this one.

People are trying so hard to dance around the fact that Ukrainians aren’t brown/black and/or Islamic.

1 million refugees relatively moved safely in a week is unheard of before.

Let’s be clear what the parsimonious reason is why it easily happened but never before

Yes. I am from Central Europe. Ukrainians are our neighbors; we share a similar history and culture. And yes, they look and behave like us. We are neighbors. Of course I am more ready to help and do something about the situation. Makes sense.

Western European here. I agree. It's true that central and eastern Europeans have this reputation of being racist against Jews and people of color and non-Christians. Perhaps they have not had many opportunities to see them up up close in economically advantageous conditions (with exceptions). Western Europe has its own problems with Arabs, Muslims, Africans, Jews, etc...

Having said all this, and despite NOT BEING 100% WHITE MYSELF, I feel more kinship towards Ukrainians than to displaced and oppressed people elsewhere. Why? Because we are all European, and that counts for a lot.
We all remember the scars of WWII, we all remember the siege of Sarajevo, we all remember the Bosnian genocide. We feel physical repulsion at the idea of another massive land war on European soil.

This is what I’m talking about. Look PPs need to just be clear and say things with their chest. Don’t say “have this reputation” and “perhaps”.

Use honest terms. “Are” is more clear and accurate if you sub it for the above phrases.

It’s funny that Ukraine will get EU membership before Turkey for example even though Turkey is doing more than almost anyone to save Ukrainians with drones.

Why? It isn’t because of gdp/per capita (Turkey is a basketcase but richer even on that metric).

It is because of looks and Islam.

I don’t have a horse in this either way, I’m just curious why people can’t be clear and honest about these things.

What will be interesting is as the US becomes more brown and diverse, as a body politic, it’ll start to Very slowly change American foreign policy that was par for course in the post ww2 era.

I can tell you that average black and brown people (who are not in the dc space) are pretty tuned out to what’s happening in Ukraine.




PP you replied to. Stop being annoying. We are not going to say "Europeans are racist" just to comply with your worldview. Why? Because I'm a European and I'm not racist! The Central European who is posting here is surely not racist either, if they are posting from the DC area - they must be educated and have quite a bit of experience to have made it all the way to DC.

My Grandmother was terribly racist. We all know racist people. But it's stupid to say ALL Europeans are racist. Would you like it if we said ALL Americans are racist? It wouldn't be true, would it?

So stop it. And again, I want to emphasize here that I am of mixed ethnicity. Many people in Europe are not white. Just like here.

[Anonymous]

Putin has a deranged worldview. He was, obviously, lying about this being about recognizing the separatist regions in Eastern Ukraine. He wants a new world order. A partial Google translate of his victory speech that was leaked:

The offensive of Russia and the new world

A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia's military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era - and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, internal Russian. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system - but this is worth talking about separately a little later.

Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war, because now brothers, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.

Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia - for two key reasons. And the issue of national security, that is, the creation of anti-Russia from Ukraine and an outpost for the West to put pressure on us, is only the second most important among them.

The first would always be the complex of a divided people, the complex of national humiliation - when the Russian house first lost part of its foundation (Kiev), and then was forced to come to terms with the existence of two states, not one, but two peoples. That is, either to abandon their history, agreeing with the insane versions that "only Ukraine is the real Russia," or to gnash one's teeth helplessly, remembering the times when "we lost Ukraine." Returning Ukraine, that is, turning it back to Russia, would be more and more difficult with every decade - recoding, de-Russification of Russians and inciting Ukrainian Little Russians against Russians would gain momentum.

Putin is quite mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, while modi (bjp) and congress hate each other, if congress was in power, there wouldn’t be a difference in posture right now.

Modi isn’t driving the posture in this issue.

There is extremely broad based support for neutrality in India except for the very small…like 5% of people who are ameri/anglo-philes.

That's because they dont understand how this impacts them yet. One day they'll realize that Russia's actions hurt their interests vis a vis China and Pakistan. Hopefully they'll realize it before it's too late.

I love how white people or Indian-Americans who are 🥥 presume to have greater strategic insight than educated people who actually live in country.

FYI, israel has a similar posture and it is the highest iq most strategically keen country in the world.

Interestingly, Israel has a huge population of Ukrainian Jews who left the country in the earlier waves.