Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.



This plus 100. Biglaw mom of two kids, oldest 10, DH also working somewhat demanding hours:

If I could provide a few thoughts:

- OP, I tell every single new mom in Biglaw: give it time. Don't make rash decision about your career in the first year. As each year goes by, I am amazed at what more I can do. You learn and adapt and get better at it. It doesn't happen right away, but I promise you, if you stick at it, you can do so much more than you can begin to imagine right now.

- There is lots of good advice on here. I think the key points are: 1) you need to find some help system that works for you. What that will be depends on your family and the particular moment. It evolves. Right now, my family relies on daycare for youngest, au pair, helpful grandparents around, cleaning ladies and landscapers. 2) you have to give up some things in your life but then make sure to carve out time for other things you need. I've largely given up on my social life but make sure to exercise and leave my weekends almost 100% open for family time. I also work from home 2 days per week but when I am busy I will work late and bank up a cushion of hours so I can be present other times with my kids. For example, some Friday nights I work super late so I can have a free weekend. 3) you have to be super disciplined about your time. For example, I rarely go to social lunches anymore.

- As much BigLaw bashing on here, there are lots of great things about the job. OP you may find that you agree--or not--but please give it time. You need time to figure out if you can master this.

Good luck.


Shorter version: become a staff and hire people to clean your toilets.


^ staff counsel
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Move to a lower cost of living city.

Ideas:
Cincinnati
Omaha
Tucson
Minneapolis
Des Moines
Fargo


Okay, you got me: some things are worse than biglaw. -OP


Because it would be doubly embarrassing to be struggling so much in a flyover city?
Anonymous
I didn’t give up my big law career because of my family but because other than my family and big law I had no other life. I worked long big laws hours and my home life was well organized and my weekends were family focused. But I had no time for friends, other family, exercising, a hobby, reading. Everything was so organized that there was no spontaneity or fun. I finally realized that I was on autopilot and that my relationship with my husband and children was on autopilot so I left a joined a much smaller firm which required a pretty painful pay cut. But my life is so much better! We now have a social life, I’m home for dinner many nights, I exercise, our weekends are far more relaxed, I’m Reading again and my relationship with my husband and children is much better.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.


Do you work? (Just curious)


Yes but not in law. I asked him overall to consider all women lawyers in all levels over many years time and tell me what he thought. His reply matched that of an older but more well researched article in NYT about women lawyers. He said/ it said: men and women in law about equal in number as associates. The number of women drop off as they go upwards in the law firm steps. He was unable (his experience) to name a single senior woman partner who had children. Of the senior women partners that he knew he felt that these women were much, much more intelligent in law than the average male partner and also that they were faster/ more efficient. One persons opinion. I laughed because it’s a cliche. But cliches always have some truth.


Law is a very feminine profession. Lots of organization, emotional labor, and taking the supporting role to your client. A lot of men deal with the inherent emasculinization in sad, small, petty ways.


Yeah, they become passive aggressive careerists.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.



Guessing it’s your practice area. Trademark law or something like that?


No. Curious how/why you assumed that . . .


low stress, low travel, cushy gig.


I said low travel. I'm not sure where you are getting low stress or cushy.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Move to a lower cost of living city.

Ideas:
Cincinnati
Omaha
Tucson
Minneapolis
Des Moines
Fargo


Okay, you got me: some things are worse than biglaw. -OP


Ya know what? I felt bad for you, and now I do not.

FWIW, I left big law in DC for one of the cities above, and it’s wonderful. We have a nanny, and a gorgeous house in an upper class neighborhood. Our combined household income is $180k and DH and I both work 40
Hours a week or less.



I am with OP. I did that. I hated my life for 8 years. Back in DC. Getting a divorce.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all of the advice/supportive comments. I'm still working through them.

Want to note one thing - I have no desire to make partner. Zero. I want to pay back my loans and learn as much as I can before going to the next thing.


keep your eye on the prize lady. do it.


This is real light at the end of the tunnel! I agree that this is by far the hardest time to be juggling everything, but you're making serious progress on your loan and that's no small thing! I agree with everyone saying you should get a nanny or maybe an evening helper depending on your and your DH's schedules. Just outsource to get through this last slog.


+ 1

The good news is your baby won’t remember this time period any way. So honestly, it’s better to work long hours now than when they’re a bit older (pre-k +) and really want to spend time with you.

Just envision your future now...

You’ve gotten rid of your shackles ... err student loans.

You have a baller big law resume to shop around (in house, smaller firm, DOJ)?? The world is your working mom oyster.

You are DONE pumping (yay!!). Kid is sleeping (mostly). Kid stays up later so you can really enjoy family time in the evenings.

It will get so.much.better.

Lord, the justification. Her baby won't remember it consciously but if you think never having parents around and/or having stressed parents has zero effect on your child, you're projecting your hopes about your own situation. That's not reality. OP's DH needs to step up or this can't continue. I vote for him stepping it up.


OP. I'm ALL FOR husbands doing their fair share, but I'm not understanding the few comments in this thread telling him to step it up. I don't see where he's lacking. Yesterday I decided to take the advice on this thread and work late one night. I did drop off so he could get to work a little earlier to do pick up. He picked up, fed the kid leftovers from a meal he cooked her the day before, gave her a bath, put her to bed, and when I got home around 9:30 had dinner waiting for me. I ate, we talked for a bit, and then I did a little more work while he cleaned the kitchen. What do you want him to do?

I guess this could be every night, and I'm pretty sure he'd do that, but as noted earlier I was trying to do the pickups so I could get some time in before bedtime. On those days, I don't see her any less than anyone doing a 9-5.

But I am starting the think missing bed time once or twice a week to stay late is more manageable. I did about the same amount of work but got a couple more hours sleep. I don't enjoy missing bedtime, but I don't see how that's going to scar my kid for life.

I clearly don't love this setup and want to leave, but I don't get blaming it on my husband.


I'm one of the PPs who said your husband needs to step up. I SAH; DH is a big law partner. I've worked, then worked part-time, then worked from home, then SAH full time, so we've been through it all. When I decided to SAH full-time my sister was horrified and I remember her clearly saying to me that spouses need to contribute 50/50 on the job front and at home. This was easy for her to say, however, because she and her DH have the exact same career which they both enjoy, and they each make the same amount of money. What complicates the matter is when one partner is making much more money, has a more demanding career, and/or is more passionate about their career than the other. In our case (which is not yours), DH made orders of magnitude more money, spent a lot more time working, and found his career far more fulfilling and enjoyable than I found mine. We still believe we are contributing to our family 50/50, but I contribute more in time (including time not spent with the kids, like time managing our budget or maintaining the house or other boring tasks) and he contributes more in money. Both are valuable.

I'm certainly not "blaming" your husband. It is an awesome situation when two partners can equally contribute at home and equally bring in the money, and you can't really expect a spouse to do more than 50%. But I have seen first hand that there are many men who genuinely enjoy big law, and they are able to enjoy it because they aren't doing anywhere close to 50% (or even 20%) of the childcare or housework or (above all) the mental work of having a family. These men manage to have a strong relationship with their kids, come home for dinner/bedtime most nights, are equally involved with the kids' activities. But they don't bear the "mental load" that the women in big law typically do. So often the woman - whether she works a demanding job or not - is in charge of hiring the nanny, managing the au pair. She keeps track of the kids schedules, she keeps track of the grocery lists, even if they then order online or give the list to a housekeeper. Even when you outsource a lot, there's still a mental component that women almost always do.

That's the difference between those who are happy (mostly men) in big law and those who aren't. My DH (who btw loves his job, but says he'd leave in a heartbeat if I were no longer able or interested in doing what I do at home) shows up and is present with our family and our kids (often more mentally present than I am, to be honest), but he literally never thinks about paying a bill or buying toilet paper or what we're having for dinner. He never, ever spends mental energy on planning a vacation (though we discuss it on our weekly dates!) or how our investments are doing or whether a child should sign up for soccer. He went grocery shopping the other day and he realized it's been years since he's been to the grocery store unless it was to stop in and buy something for fun. He doesn't handle car repairs, or fixing our dishwasher, or yard work. He doesn't even know who we hire to mow our lawn or how much it costs. He doesn't know when I schedule our babysitter to come, and he doesn't know whether she's coming so I can go to the doctor or so I can take personal time. He is super present with the kids and knows what they like and don't like and is great at spending focused time with them. When I put family events on his calendar like soccer games or teacher conferences, he blocks it off and can show up without difficulty 95% of the time. When an issue comes up with the kids, we discuss it, and we come up with parenting decisions together. But he does not handle ANY of the mental work of having a home and a family. And this gives him the mental space to enjoy his job.

Anyway, it sounds like your spouse is solidly contributing his 50% to the family and home, which is great. In fact, it seems like he's probably contributing much more than 50%. But to be even remotely happy in big law, you need a spouse who does EVEN MORE than that at home, whether in terms of actual childcare and housework, OR in terms of being in charge of hiring the nanny / au pair so that you DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. The fact that you are on here trying to figure out what to do indicates that the responsibility hasn't been shifted to your spouse, and it's that shift in responsibility that allows people (mostly men) to be happy in demanding careers like big law.

I'm not saying what you or your DH should do, because I get that this kind of set up only works when both partners want it; the person working has to be okay letting go of being the primary caregiver, and the person who is the default parent has to be okay with doing a lot of thankless work for the home and family. But if you want to know how other people manage to be happy working in big law, this is how.


OP. I appreciate this, but I do think it misses the mark. My husband does pick up a huge portion of the mental load. He does the shopping, schedules/attends doctors appointments, preps bottles, schedules our monthly deep cleaner, etc. I do some stuff around the house - laundry, because I enjoy it (no, really), occasional straightening up - but I have no problem with that. And I think I would feel resentful of him trying to manage my life any more than he does. It's really, really not a home problem. I don't want him to do ALL of the work or every bed time or prepare all of the baby's meals. My problem is not being able to carve out any time for peace from work. To be perfectly honest, my husband does A LOT and my baby is generally very easy, so this is more of a general problem with biglaw - though I'm feeling it now more than before because it's more important to me now to have uninterrupted time with my kid. And, in the past, when I had some time off on the weekends I could veg out a little. Now, between baby and work, there is zero free time. I really don't see anything my husband can do to change that.

That said, this is not forever. I think that perspective has helped a lot.


Twelve weeks of paid parental leave in the federal government if you ever have another kid! They’ll even throw in some blue pens that look like they should work but never do, and a federal calendar that sows you all the leave you’ll accrue!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.



This plus 100. Biglaw mom of two kids, oldest 10, DH also working somewhat demanding hours:

If I could provide a few thoughts:

- OP, I tell every single new mom in Biglaw: give it time. Don't make rash decision about your career in the first year. As each year goes by, I am amazed at what more I can do. You learn and adapt and get better at it. It doesn't happen right away, but I promise you, if you stick at it, you can do so much more than you can begin to imagine right now.

- There is lots of good advice on here. I think the key points are: 1) you need to find some help system that works for you. What that will be depends on your family and the particular moment. It evolves. Right now, my family relies on daycare for youngest, au pair, helpful grandparents around, cleaning ladies and landscapers. 2) you have to give up some things in your life but then make sure to carve out time for other things you need. I've largely given up on my social life but make sure to exercise and leave my weekends almost 100% open for family time. I also work from home 2 days per week but when I am busy I will work late and bank up a cushion of hours so I can be present other times with my kids. For example, some Friday nights I work super late so I can have a free weekend. 3) you have to be super disciplined about your time. For example, I rarely go to social lunches anymore.

- As much BigLaw bashing on here, there are lots of great things about the job. OP you may find that you agree--or not--but please give it time. You need time to figure out if you can master this.

Good luck.


Shorter version: become a staff and hire people to clean your toilets.


^ staff counsel


It doesn't sound like the PP is a staff counsel. I'm assuming the people posting here are associates/counsel/partners.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all of the advice/supportive comments. I'm still working through them.

Want to note one thing - I have no desire to make partner. Zero. I want to pay back my loans and learn as much as I can before going to the next thing.


keep your eye on the prize lady. do it.


This is real light at the end of the tunnel! I agree that this is by far the hardest time to be juggling everything, but you're making serious progress on your loan and that's no small thing! I agree with everyone saying you should get a nanny or maybe an evening helper depending on your and your DH's schedules. Just outsource to get through this last slog.


+ 1

The good news is your baby won’t remember this time period any way. So honestly, it’s better to work long hours now than when they’re a bit older (pre-k +) and really want to spend time with you.

Just envision your future now...

You’ve gotten rid of your shackles ... err student loans.

You have a baller big law resume to shop around (in house, smaller firm, DOJ)?? The world is your working mom oyster.

You are DONE pumping (yay!!). Kid is sleeping (mostly). Kid stays up later so you can really enjoy family time in the evenings.

It will get so.much.better.

Lord, the justification. Her baby won't remember it consciously but if you think never having parents around and/or having stressed parents has zero effect on your child, you're projecting your hopes about your own situation. That's not reality. OP's DH needs to step up or this can't continue. I vote for him stepping it up.


OP. I'm ALL FOR husbands doing their fair share, but I'm not understanding the few comments in this thread telling him to step it up. I don't see where he's lacking. Yesterday I decided to take the advice on this thread and work late one night. I did drop off so he could get to work a little earlier to do pick up. He picked up, fed the kid leftovers from a meal he cooked her the day before, gave her a bath, put her to bed, and when I got home around 9:30 had dinner waiting for me. I ate, we talked for a bit, and then I did a little more work while he cleaned the kitchen. What do you want him to do?

I guess this could be every night, and I'm pretty sure he'd do that, but as noted earlier I was trying to do the pickups so I could get some time in before bedtime. On those days, I don't see her any less than anyone doing a 9-5.

But I am starting the think missing bed time once or twice a week to stay late is more manageable. I did about the same amount of work but got a couple more hours sleep. I don't enjoy missing bedtime, but I don't see how that's going to scar my kid for life.

I clearly don't love this setup and want to leave, but I don't get blaming it on my husband.


I'm one of the PPs who said your husband needs to step up. I SAH; DH is a big law partner. I've worked, then worked part-time, then worked from home, then SAH full time, so we've been through it all. When I decided to SAH full-time my sister was horrified and I remember her clearly saying to me that spouses need to contribute 50/50 on the job front and at home. This was easy for her to say, however, because she and her DH have the exact same career which they both enjoy, and they each make the same amount of money. What complicates the matter is when one partner is making much more money, has a more demanding career, and/or is more passionate about their career than the other. In our case (which is not yours), DH made orders of magnitude more money, spent a lot more time working, and found his career far more fulfilling and enjoyable than I found mine. We still believe we are contributing to our family 50/50, but I contribute more in time (including time not spent with the kids, like time managing our budget or maintaining the house or other boring tasks) and he contributes more in money. Both are valuable.

I'm certainly not "blaming" your husband. It is an awesome situation when two partners can equally contribute at home and equally bring in the money, and you can't really expect a spouse to do more than 50%. But I have seen first hand that there are many men who genuinely enjoy big law, and they are able to enjoy it because they aren't doing anywhere close to 50% (or even 20%) of the childcare or housework or (above all) the mental work of having a family. These men manage to have a strong relationship with their kids, come home for dinner/bedtime most nights, are equally involved with the kids' activities. But they don't bear the "mental load" that the women in big law typically do. So often the woman - whether she works a demanding job or not - is in charge of hiring the nanny, managing the au pair. She keeps track of the kids schedules, she keeps track of the grocery lists, even if they then order online or give the list to a housekeeper. Even when you outsource a lot, there's still a mental component that women almost always do.

That's the difference between those who are happy (mostly men) in big law and those who aren't. My DH (who btw loves his job, but says he'd leave in a heartbeat if I were no longer able or interested in doing what I do at home) shows up and is present with our family and our kids (often more mentally present than I am, to be honest), but he literally never thinks about paying a bill or buying toilet paper or what we're having for dinner. He never, ever spends mental energy on planning a vacation (though we discuss it on our weekly dates!) or how our investments are doing or whether a child should sign up for soccer. He went grocery shopping the other day and he realized it's been years since he's been to the grocery store unless it was to stop in and buy something for fun. He doesn't handle car repairs, or fixing our dishwasher, or yard work. He doesn't even know who we hire to mow our lawn or how much it costs. He doesn't know when I schedule our babysitter to come, and he doesn't know whether she's coming so I can go to the doctor or so I can take personal time. He is super present with the kids and knows what they like and don't like and is great at spending focused time with them. When I put family events on his calendar like soccer games or teacher conferences, he blocks it off and can show up without difficulty 95% of the time. When an issue comes up with the kids, we discuss it, and we come up with parenting decisions together. But he does not handle ANY of the mental work of having a home and a family. And this gives him the mental space to enjoy his job.

Anyway, it sounds like your spouse is solidly contributing his 50% to the family and home, which is great. In fact, it seems like he's probably contributing much more than 50%. But to be even remotely happy in big law, you need a spouse who does EVEN MORE than that at home, whether in terms of actual childcare and housework, OR in terms of being in charge of hiring the nanny / au pair so that you DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. The fact that you are on here trying to figure out what to do indicates that the responsibility hasn't been shifted to your spouse, and it's that shift in responsibility that allows people (mostly men) to be happy in demanding careers like big law.

I'm not saying what you or your DH should do, because I get that this kind of set up only works when both partners want it; the person working has to be okay letting go of being the primary caregiver, and the person who is the default parent has to be okay with doing a lot of thankless work for the home and family. But if you want to know how other people manage to be happy working in big law, this is how.


OP. I appreciate this, but I do think it misses the mark. My husband does pick up a huge portion of the mental load. He does the shopping, schedules/attends doctors appointments, preps bottles, schedules our monthly deep cleaner, etc. I do some stuff around the house - laundry, because I enjoy it (no, really), occasional straightening up - but I have no problem with that. And I think I would feel resentful of him trying to manage my life any more than he does. It's really, really not a home problem. I don't want him to do ALL of the work or every bed time or prepare all of the baby's meals. My problem is not being able to carve out any time for peace from work. To be perfectly honest, my husband does A LOT and my baby is generally very easy, so this is more of a general problem with biglaw - though I'm feeling it now more than before because it's more important to me now to have uninterrupted time with my kid. And, in the past, when I had some time off on the weekends I could veg out a little. Now, between baby and work, there is zero free time. I really don't see anything my husband can do to change that.

That said, this is not forever. I think that perspective has helped a lot.


Twelve weeks of paid parental leave in the federal government if you ever have another kid! They’ll even throw in some blue pens that look like they should work but never do, and a federal calendar that sows you all the leave you’ll accrue!


^ shows. Excuse the typo. There will be lots of those in a government job. i
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all of the advice/supportive comments. I'm still working through them.

Want to note one thing - I have no desire to make partner. Zero. I want to pay back my loans and learn as much as I can before going to the next thing.


keep your eye on the prize lady. do it.


This is real light at the end of the tunnel! I agree that this is by far the hardest time to be juggling everything, but you're making serious progress on your loan and that's no small thing! I agree with everyone saying you should get a nanny or maybe an evening helper depending on your and your DH's schedules. Just outsource to get through this last slog.


+ 1

The good news is your baby won’t remember this time period any way. So honestly, it’s better to work long hours now than when they’re a bit older (pre-k +) and really want to spend time with you.

Just envision your future now...

You’ve gotten rid of your shackles ... err student loans.

You have a baller big law resume to shop around (in house, smaller firm, DOJ)?? The world is your working mom oyster.

You are DONE pumping (yay!!). Kid is sleeping (mostly). Kid stays up later so you can really enjoy family time in the evenings.

It will get so.much.better.

Lord, the justification. Her baby won't remember it consciously but if you think never having parents around and/or having stressed parents has zero effect on your child, you're projecting your hopes about your own situation. That's not reality. OP's DH needs to step up or this can't continue. I vote for him stepping it up.


OP. I'm ALL FOR husbands doing their fair share, but I'm not understanding the few comments in this thread telling him to step it up. I don't see where he's lacking. Yesterday I decided to take the advice on this thread and work late one night. I did drop off so he could get to work a little earlier to do pick up. He picked up, fed the kid leftovers from a meal he cooked her the day before, gave her a bath, put her to bed, and when I got home around 9:30 had dinner waiting for me. I ate, we talked for a bit, and then I did a little more work while he cleaned the kitchen. What do you want him to do?

I guess this could be every night, and I'm pretty sure he'd do that, but as noted earlier I was trying to do the pickups so I could get some time in before bedtime. On those days, I don't see her any less than anyone doing a 9-5.

But I am starting the think missing bed time once or twice a week to stay late is more manageable. I did about the same amount of work but got a couple more hours sleep. I don't enjoy missing bedtime, but I don't see how that's going to scar my kid for life.

I clearly don't love this setup and want to leave, but I don't get blaming it on my husband.


I'm one of the PPs who said your husband needs to step up. I SAH; DH is a big law partner. I've worked, then worked part-time, then worked from home, then SAH full time, so we've been through it all. When I decided to SAH full-time my sister was horrified and I remember her clearly saying to me that spouses need to contribute 50/50 on the job front and at home. This was easy for her to say, however, because she and her DH have the exact same career which they both enjoy, and they each make the same amount of money. What complicates the matter is when one partner is making much more money, has a more demanding career, and/or is more passionate about their career than the other. In our case (which is not yours), DH made orders of magnitude more money, spent a lot more time working, and found his career far more fulfilling and enjoyable than I found mine. We still believe we are contributing to our family 50/50, but I contribute more in time (including time not spent with the kids, like time managing our budget or maintaining the house or other boring tasks) and he contributes more in money. Both are valuable.

I'm certainly not "blaming" your husband. It is an awesome situation when two partners can equally contribute at home and equally bring in the money, and you can't really expect a spouse to do more than 50%. But I have seen first hand that there are many men who genuinely enjoy big law, and they are able to enjoy it because they aren't doing anywhere close to 50% (or even 20%) of the childcare or housework or (above all) the mental work of having a family. These men manage to have a strong relationship with their kids, come home for dinner/bedtime most nights, are equally involved with the kids' activities. But they don't bear the "mental load" that the women in big law typically do. So often the woman - whether she works a demanding job or not - is in charge of hiring the nanny, managing the au pair. She keeps track of the kids schedules, she keeps track of the grocery lists, even if they then order online or give the list to a housekeeper. Even when you outsource a lot, there's still a mental component that women almost always do.

That's the difference between those who are happy (mostly men) in big law and those who aren't. My DH (who btw loves his job, but says he'd leave in a heartbeat if I were no longer able or interested in doing what I do at home) shows up and is present with our family and our kids (often more mentally present than I am, to be honest), but he literally never thinks about paying a bill or buying toilet paper or what we're having for dinner. He never, ever spends mental energy on planning a vacation (though we discuss it on our weekly dates!) or how our investments are doing or whether a child should sign up for soccer. He went grocery shopping the other day and he realized it's been years since he's been to the grocery store unless it was to stop in and buy something for fun. He doesn't handle car repairs, or fixing our dishwasher, or yard work. He doesn't even know who we hire to mow our lawn or how much it costs. He doesn't know when I schedule our babysitter to come, and he doesn't know whether she's coming so I can go to the doctor or so I can take personal time. He is super present with the kids and knows what they like and don't like and is great at spending focused time with them. When I put family events on his calendar like soccer games or teacher conferences, he blocks it off and can show up without difficulty 95% of the time. When an issue comes up with the kids, we discuss it, and we come up with parenting decisions together. But he does not handle ANY of the mental work of having a home and a family. And this gives him the mental space to enjoy his job.

Anyway, it sounds like your spouse is solidly contributing his 50% to the family and home, which is great. In fact, it seems like he's probably contributing much more than 50%. But to be even remotely happy in big law, you need a spouse who does EVEN MORE than that at home, whether in terms of actual childcare and housework, OR in terms of being in charge of hiring the nanny / au pair so that you DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. The fact that you are on here trying to figure out what to do indicates that the responsibility hasn't been shifted to your spouse, and it's that shift in responsibility that allows people (mostly men) to be happy in demanding careers like big law.

I'm not saying what you or your DH should do, because I get that this kind of set up only works when both partners want it; the person working has to be okay letting go of being the primary caregiver, and the person who is the default parent has to be okay with doing a lot of thankless work for the home and family. But if you want to know how other people manage to be happy working in big law, this is how.


This is your fault. You’re enabling him.

I don’t even know where to begin. Stop buying toilet paper. Tell him there are certain things he is charge of. Don’t do anything he’s in charge of. When he asks what’s for dinner respond with, “not sure. What are you planning?” Don’t repair broken appliances. Don’t arrange someone to mow your lawn. Seriously stop doing all of this crap. Pretend you’re your husband for a few weeks and see what happens. He is taking advantage of you.

Sorry but women are partially to blame for getting into a situation where you do everything and all of the mental labor.

The only mental labor I do more of than my husband is - clothing for kids, vacations and babysitters. I’m considering dropping the second since vacations with kids are terrible.


What are you talking about??? She's not complaining. It works for them, and well it seems.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.



Guessing it’s your practice area. Trademark law or something like that?


No. Curious how/why you assumed that . . .


low stress, low travel, cushy gig.


I said low travel. I'm not sure where you are getting low stress or cushy.


What can I say...it kind of sounds that way. But i’ll take your word for it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Move to a lower cost of living city.

Ideas:
Cincinnati
Omaha
Tucson
Minneapolis
Des Moines
Fargo


Okay, you got me: some things are worse than biglaw. -OP


Ya know what? I felt bad for you, and now I do not.

FWIW, I left big law in DC for one of the cities above, and it’s wonderful. We have a nanny, and a gorgeous house in an upper class neighborhood. Our combined household income is $180k and DH and I both work 40
Hours a week or less.



I am with OP. I did that. I hated my life for 8 years. Back in DC. Getting a divorce.


That sounds peachy. You must really like DC.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.



This plus 100. Biglaw mom of two kids, oldest 10, DH also working somewhat demanding hours:

If I could provide a few thoughts:

- OP, I tell every single new mom in Biglaw: give it time. Don't make rash decision about your career in the first year. As each year goes by, I am amazed at what more I can do. You learn and adapt and get better at it. It doesn't happen right away, but I promise you, if you stick at it, you can do so much more than you can begin to imagine right now.

- There is lots of good advice on here. I think the key points are: 1) you need to find some help system that works for you. What that will be depends on your family and the particular moment. It evolves. Right now, my family relies on daycare for youngest, au pair, helpful grandparents around, cleaning ladies and landscapers. 2) you have to give up some things in your life but then make sure to carve out time for other things you need. I've largely given up on my social life but make sure to exercise and leave my weekends almost 100% open for family time. I also work from home 2 days per week but when I am busy I will work late and bank up a cushion of hours so I can be present other times with my kids. For example, some Friday nights I work super late so I can have a free weekend. 3) you have to be super disciplined about your time. For example, I rarely go to social lunches anymore.

- As much BigLaw bashing on here, there are lots of great things about the job. OP you may find that you agree--or not--but please give it time. You need time to figure out if you can master this.

Good luck.


Shorter version: become a staff and hire people to clean your toilets.


^ staff counsel


It doesn't sound like the PP is a staff counsel. I'm assuming the people posting here are associates/counsel/partners.


Counsel, staff counsel, senior counsel — better?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Every single DC biglaw form has moms as senior partners. PP must mean her husband is in midlaw.


I was a partner in a (very) top DC Biglaw firm. Yes, we and other top firms had senior partner women with kids. But a very large percentage of women partners in our firm (compared to the population in general) did not. I can't tell you the exact percentage, but it's shocking. You are sugarcoating reality.
Anonymous
Never forget that the law is a jealous mistress. Or for an associate, a jealous male partner with a potbelly and a hair transplant that look ok, but not unnoticeable.
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