Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move to a lower cost of living city.

Ideas:
Cincinnati
Omaha
Tucson
Minneapolis
Des Moines
Fargo

Okay, you got me: some things are worse than biglaw. -OP

Wow, OP. You had my sympathy until now. If you really feel this way, then yea -- your suffering is on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had two babies in big law because I was determined to squeeze to maternity leaves out. But I knew after the first I couldn’t carry on like that. I started working my network and let clients know I was interested in in-house opportunities. I got an email during my second maternity leave and started the interview process. I went back for one week and gave notice.

Male partners see this so much and it reflects poorly on every female associate behind you.
But glad it worked out for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every single DC biglaw form has moms as senior partners. PP must mean her husband is in midlaw.

I was a partner in a (very) top DC Biglaw firm. Yes, we and other top firms had senior partner women with kids. But a very large percentage of women partners in our firm (compared to the population in general) did not. I can't tell you the exact percentage, but it's shocking. You are sugarcoating reality.

Very top? Not the very, very top? Or even the tippity top?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had two babies in big law because I was determined to squeeze to maternity leaves out. But I knew after the first I couldn’t carry on like that. I started working my network and let clients know I was interested in in-house opportunities. I got an email during my second maternity leave and started the interview process. I went back for one week and gave notice.

Male partners see this so much and it reflects poorly on every female associate behind you.
But glad it worked out for you.

Not a damn thing male associates can do about it. Next female associate up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.

Guessing it’s your practice area. Trademark law or something like that?

No. Curious how/why you assumed that . . .

low stress, low travel, cushy gig.

I said low travel. I'm not sure where you are getting low stress or cushy.

What can I say...it kind of sounds that way. But i’ll take your word for it.

You, and it seems many others on this board, have a pretty warped view of Biglaw then. Yes, it is hard, but we are not literally chained to our desks. Even by Biglaw standards, what I described above isn't cushy. I'll also admit that I have it better than some in Biglaw. I'd say my situation is about average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.

Guessing it’s your practice area. Trademark law or something like that?

No. Curious how/why you assumed that . . .

low stress, low travel, cushy gig.

I said low travel. I'm not sure where you are getting low stress or cushy.

What can I say...it kind of sounds that way. But i’ll take your word for it.

You, and it seems many others on this board, have a pretty warped view of Biglaw then. Yes, it is hard, but we are not literally chained to our desks. Even by Biglaw standards, what I described above isn't cushy. I'll also admit that I have it better than some in Biglaw. I'd say my situation is about average.

Obviously, as you have time to write all this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move to a lower cost of living city.

Ideas:
Cincinnati
Omaha
Tucson
Minneapolis
Des Moines
Fargo

Okay, you got me: some things are worse than biglaw. -OP

Wow, OP. You had my sympathy until now. If you really feel this way, then yea -- your suffering is on you.

Right?? Like what’s so horrible about Minneapolis? Or Omaha? There are other nice places besides DC, places where you can-gasp-afford a home, pay off loans, take a vacation, have a career, and still see your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had two babies in big law because I was determined to squeeze to maternity leaves out. But I knew after the first I couldn’t carry on like that. I started working my network and let clients know I was interested in in-house opportunities. I got an email during my second maternity leave and started the interview process. I went back for one week and gave notice.

Male partners see this so much and it reflects poorly on every female associate behind you.
But glad it worked out for you.

Not a damn thing male associates can do about it. Next female associate up!

What are you talking about? Not a single mention was made of male associates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Move to a lower cost of living city.

Ideas:
Cincinnati
Omaha
Tucson
Minneapolis
Des Moines
Fargo

Okay, you got me: some things are worse than biglaw. -OP

Wow, OP. You had my sympathy until now. If you really feel this way, then yea -- your suffering is on you.

Right?? Like what’s so horrible about Minneapolis? Or Omaha? There are other nice places besides DC, places where you can-gasp-afford a home, pay off loans, take a vacation, have a career, and still see your children.

And fly back to DC for the museums and “great parks” whenever you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t give up my big law career because of my family but because other than my family and big law I had no other life. I worked long big laws hours and my home life was well organized and my weekends were family focused. But I had no time for friends, other family, exercising, a hobby, reading. Everything was so organized that there was no spontaneity or fun. I finally realized that I was on autopilot and that my relationship with my husband and children was on autopilot so I left a joined a much smaller firm which required a pretty painful pay cut. But my life is so much better! We now have a social life, I’m home for dinner many nights, I exercise, our weekends are far more relaxed, I’m Reading again and my relationship with my husband and children is much better.

+100. When I read the post from the mom a page or two ago when she said she gave up her entire social life for Biglaw I felt sorry for her. That's a pretty big sacrifice, which she will discover when she's an empty nester and doesn't have kids to fill up what little personal time she has. I was in Biglaw for 27 years, at one of the top firms in DC, and it is absolutely soul-sucking. Anyone who thinks they're happy in situation is either deluding themselves or isn't normal. It's no way to live. It isn't living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.

This plus 100. Biglaw mom of two kids, oldest 10, DH also working somewhat demanding hours:

If I could provide a few thoughts:

- OP, I tell every single new mom in Biglaw: give it time. Don't make rash decision about your career in the first year. As each year goes by, I am amazed at what more I can do. You learn and adapt and get better at it. It doesn't happen right away, but I promise you, if you stick at it, you can do so much more than you can begin to imagine right now.

- There is lots of good advice on here. I think the key points are: 1) you need to find some help system that works for you. What that will be depends on your family and the particular moment. It evolves. Right now, my family relies on daycare for youngest, au pair, helpful grandparents around, cleaning ladies and landscapers. 2) you have to give up some things in your life but then make sure to carve out time for other things you need. I've largely given up on my social life but make sure to exercise and leave my weekends almost 100% open for family time. I also work from home 2 days per week but when I am busy I will work late and bank up a cushion of hours so I can be present other times with my kids. For example, some Friday nights I work super late so I can have a free weekend. 3) you have to be super disciplined about your time. For example, I rarely go to social lunches anymore.

- As much BigLaw bashing on here, there are lots of great things about the job. OP you may find that you agree--or not--but please give it time. You need time to figure out if you can master this.

Good luck.

Shorter version: become a staff and hire people to clean your toilets.

^ staff counsel

It doesn't sound like the PP is a staff counsel. I'm assuming the people posting here are associates/counsel/partners.

Counsel, staff counsel, senior counsel — better?

They mean very different things, something you should know if you are in or associated with Biglaw.

A staff counsel/attorney is usually someone on a non-partnership track, sometimes not much more than a doc reviewer.

Counsel is usually a intermediate position between associate and partner. Sometimes it is a stepping stone between the positions, other times not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had two babies in big law because I was determined to squeeze to maternity leaves out. But I knew after the first I couldn’t carry on like that. I started working my network and let clients know I was interested in in-house opportunities. I got an email during my second maternity leave and started the interview process. I went back for one week and gave notice.

Male partners see this so much and it reflects poorly on every female associate behind you.
But glad it worked out for you.

Not a damn thing male associates can do about it. Next female associate up!

What are you talking about? Not a single mention was made of male associates.

Male partners are well aware of the reality of many female associates jetting early. But they have to replace them with other female associates. Honestly, regardless of gender, 98 percent of these lawyers are fungible. Magna Cum Laude Katie from T14 and Magna Cum Laude Connor from T14 will be the same .... And why is that? Because law is easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t give up my big law career because of my family but because other than my family and big law I had no other life. I worked long big laws hours and my home life was well organized and my weekends were family focused. But I had no time for friends, other family, exercising, a hobby, reading. Everything was so organized that there was no spontaneity or fun. I finally realized that I was on autopilot and that my relationship with my husband and children was on autopilot so I left a joined a much smaller firm which required a pretty painful pay cut. But my life is so much better! We now have a social life, I’m home for dinner many nights, I exercise, our weekends are far more relaxed, I’m Reading again and my relationship with my husband and children is much better.

+100. When I read the post from the mom a page or two ago when she said she gave up her entire social life for Biglaw I felt sorry for her. That's a pretty big sacrifice, which she will discover when she's an empty nester and doesn't have kids to fill up what little personal time she has. I was in Biglaw for 27 years, at one of the top firms in DC, and it is absolutely soul-sucking. Anyone who thinks they're happy in situation is either deluding themselves or isn't normal. It's no way to live. It isn't living.

Hi. We probably know each other. We’ve certainly sat on panels together spouting about our robust practice areas and opportunities for women in law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.

Guessing it’s your practice area. Trademark law or something like that?

No. Curious how/why you assumed that . . .

low stress, low travel, cushy gig.

I said low travel. I'm not sure where you are getting low stress or cushy.

What can I say...it kind of sounds that way. But i’ll take your word for it.

You, and it seems many others on this board, have a pretty warped view of Biglaw then. Yes, it is hard, but we are not literally chained to our desks. Even by Biglaw standards, what I described above isn't cushy. I'll also admit that I have it better than some in Biglaw. I'd say my situation is about average.

Not literally, no -- but work is always on a Biglaw lawyer's mind. You're on this board right now, but you're feeling guilty for being here and not billing hours.

-- Biglaw lawyer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm of course not saying that it is easy or that it doesn't entail sacrifices, but I think many people on this board are making it sound harder/more impossible than it is. That people would immediately tell OP (or others in her shoes) to quit is disconcerting because with that mindset women will never be able to achieve an equal place in the office.

I have two kids 7 and 4. The younger is in daycare; the older does aftercare at school. DH, who has a FT but fairly flexible job, does almost all drop offs/pickups. He does most of the cooking and stuff around the house, although we have someone clean once a week and we have come to accept that the house will be a little messy. He can almost always cover the (thankfully relatively rare) times the kids are sick or have some other scheduling issue that is out of the ordinary. But, I am usually able to block off important things like school plays and I've almost never missed something like that.

I make it home for dinner, or at least bedtime, more nights than not. On the days that I stay late, I usually stay very late. That makes it easier to get home other nights. I'll also obviously log on some times from home after the kids go to sleep. I also don't have to travel much, which helps a lot, but I also know not all practice areas have that benefit. I'm generally able to keep my weekends free and devote it almost exclusively to family activities.

It isn't easy, but it also isn't impossible or a bad life. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the benefits my work provides. I don't know that I will do it forever, but doing it as long as I have has given us tremendous financial freedom going forward and it also has opened up plenty of other doors once I decide it is time do something else.

It isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't just assume that kids has to mean the end of a Biglaw career.

This plus 100. Biglaw mom of two kids, oldest 10, DH also working somewhat demanding hours:

If I could provide a few thoughts:

- OP, I tell every single new mom in Biglaw: give it time. Don't make rash decision about your career in the first year. As each year goes by, I am amazed at what more I can do. You learn and adapt and get better at it. It doesn't happen right away, but I promise you, if you stick at it, you can do so much more than you can begin to imagine right now.

- There is lots of good advice on here. I think the key points are: 1) you need to find some help system that works for you. What that will be depends on your family and the particular moment. It evolves. Right now, my family relies on daycare for youngest, au pair, helpful grandparents around, cleaning ladies and landscapers. 2) you have to give up some things in your life but then make sure to carve out time for other things you need. I've largely given up on my social life but make sure to exercise and leave my weekends almost 100% open for family time. I also work from home 2 days per week but when I am busy I will work late and bank up a cushion of hours so I can be present other times with my kids. For example, some Friday nights I work super late so I can have a free weekend. 3) you have to be super disciplined about your time. For example, I rarely go to social lunches anymore.

- As much BigLaw bashing on here, there are lots of great things about the job. OP you may find that you agree--or not--but please give it time. You need time to figure out if you can master this.

Good luck.

Shorter version: become a staff and hire people to clean your toilets.

^ staff counsel

It doesn't sound like the PP is a staff counsel. I'm assuming the people posting here are associates/counsel/partners.

Counsel, staff counsel, senior counsel — better?

They mean very different things, something you should know if you are in or associated with Biglaw.

A staff counsel/attorney is usually someone on a non-partnership track, sometimes not much more than a doc reviewer.

Counsel is usually a intermediate position between associate and partner. Sometimes it is a stepping stone between the positions, other times not.

m

The usage varies by firm. Let us say if counsel or senior counsel. No need to be thick.