DOJ argues that migrant children should not receive toothbrushes or soap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So at remote border outposts overwhelmed by large volume drop offs we want the same standard of care as at long term facilities? Meanwhile rural Americans dont see a doctor, at all, for four years. Meanwhile our current deficit (that American children will pay) is 207 billion dollars. This years government budget gap rose to 42 percent (what comes in with taxes/goes out in expenditures). We are hosting our visitors on borrowed money - is it like monopoly money? Just trying to connect all the dots in this crisis.

Blaming our country’s failings of poor people on other poor people.
If only we could get rid of these illegal poor people then all the good things will shower down upon you legal poor people.

Resources are finite. If we are providing for illegal poor people, legal poor people are getting shafted.

You're evading the point. When the government takes custody of a person, then the government assumes the responsibility to treat them humanely. This isn't about some kind of government benefit being provided to "illegal poor persons," but rather deplorable detention conditions.

For one night? In a facility that's overwhelmed? That IS humane. Sorry.

Stop lying. They’ve been there for weeks - as noted in this breaking Times story. Now many of them have finally been moved.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/24/us/border-migrant-children-detention-soap.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the problem with this "it's only one night" BS is that these kids are NOT being held only one night.

Also, did people miss the part about the lice combs being used by MULTIPLE kids? That is NOT OK.

The specific facility without toothbrushes and soap is 24 hour or less processing center.

My kids used the same lice comb. You have to clean it between uses. Have you read that they're moving from kid to kid w/o sanitizing the combs in boiling water?

If you treated your kids like this someone would call CPS. But you know that and are just trolling.

Why would I troll? I've called CPS on a few occasions. I know what abuse is- physical, emotional, and sexual.

But you believe what you want. I really don't care.

I'm still asking what you want them to do. If there isn't enough space, for example, where do they sleep? And if they're in close quarters, they will continue to pass along lice and illnesses. Sleeping on a cot won't stop the lice, which takes DAYS to remove. Sleeping on a cot won't stop the spread of illnesses. Sleeping in close quarters won't prevent any sexual misconduct from occurring either.

I am sure these BP folks are frustrated and tired, and thus, taking some cruel measures. Of course that's wrong, but this job - similar to some military experiences - comes with its own PTSD. BP also have families - many of them - which means they themselves have to protect their health.

So it's easy to read a story in The New Yorker, for example, and then make a generalization about all detention camp conditions and all BP. I know, however, with 100% certainty that you would not last a day in that job. I don't care how compassionate you THINK you are, but it's easy to become hardened b/c of unbearable and unmanageable situations.

Um, cruelty is never ok. Especially to kids. It doesn't matter if someone has been cruel to you beforehand, that doesn't make it ok to take it out on others. Especially kids. If you feel like you have to, then you need to step away from the job. I don't care how sympathetic to BP you THINK you are, lets see how you'd handle it if they were supervising YOUR kids. I doubt you'd be so willing to give a pass to their cruelty. At least, I hope you wouldn't.

Then you pay more money to either hire more BP (b/c there are simply not enough) or find other for profit centers that are more efficient and humane.

And while you're at it, stop the abuse in foster care, too. But that's too close to home, I bet.

It's easy to pick a cause when it doesn't directly affect you b/c it's a thousand miles away.

No on is advocating for inhumane treatment. But the hypocrisy is maddening. These kids are entering with trauma, illness and lice (least of our worries), and if too many are coming in, a few BPs with limited resources cannot do a damn thing about it. So preach it, hon! But your words also don't mean a damn thing.

Umm, YOU are advocating for inhumane treatment when you say "Oh, those poor BP guards. They have a tough job, so it's ok if they abuse children". They shouldn't be apprehending these children if they can't house them without abusing them.

I am realistic in how I view situations. You're the one who's putting words into my mouth, which is not surprising to me.

I NEVER SAID it was fine to abuse children. As I've noted upthread, I have had far too many "conversations" with CPS in my lifetime. However, I'd like to see the ratio of BP to children.

and this "apprehending these children if they can't house them w/o abusing them?" WHAT?

What would you like them to do with these children who cross? Many don't come with their parents. And even if they did stay with their parents, how does that solve the problem of overcrowded conditions? lice and illnesses being spread? Do you really think the BP are THAT abusive?

one broad stroke of the brush - They're all monsters!

Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So at remote border outposts overwhelmed by large volume drop offs we want the same standard of care as at long term facilities? Meanwhile rural Americans dont see a doctor, at all, for four years. Meanwhile our current deficit (that American children will pay) is 207 billion dollars. This years government budget gap rose to 42 percent (what comes in with taxes/goes out in expenditures). We are hosting our visitors on borrowed money - is it like monopoly money? Just trying to connect all the dots in this crisis.

Blaming our country’s failings of poor people on other poor people.
If only we could get rid of these illegal poor people then all the good things will shower down upon you legal poor people.

Resources are finite. If we are providing for illegal poor people, legal poor people are getting shafted.

You're evading the point. When the government takes custody of a person, then the government assumes the responsibility to treat them humanely. This isn't about some kind of government benefit being provided to "illegal poor persons," but rather deplorable detention conditions.

For one night? In a facility that's overwhelmed? That IS humane. Sorry.

Stop lying. They’ve been there for weeks - as noted in this breaking Times story. Now many of them have finally been moved.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/24/us/border-migrant-children-detention-soap.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

+1 For those who are literacy challenged.

Following a public outcry, hundreds of migrant children have been transferred out of a filthy Border Patrol station in Texas where they were detained for weeks without access to soap, clean clothes or adequate food, the authorities confirmed on Monday.

Some of the children were transferred into a shelter system maintained by the Department of Health and Human Services, while others were sent to a temporary tent facility in El Paso, according to Elizabeth Lopez-Sandoval, a spokeswoman for Congresswoman Veronica Escobar, who began looking into the overcrowded facility in Clint, Tex., last week after reports about the conditions there.

The move came days after a group of lawyers was given access to the station in Clint and said they saw children as young as 8 years old caring for infants, toddlers with no diapers, and children who said they were waking up at night because they were hungry. After they arrived on June 17 and observed the conditions, the lawyers immediately began lobbying for the children to be released.

The Border Patrol had been routing children to Clint because the agency was facing an unusually large influx of border crossers and had insufficient space to house them during the normal 72-hour processing period at the border. The infants there had either been separated from adult family members with whom they had crossed the border or were the children of teenage mothers who were also detained there. Some of the minors had been detained there for nearly a month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the problem with this "it's only one night" BS is that these kids are NOT being held only one night.

Also, did people miss the part about the lice combs being used by MULTIPLE kids? That is NOT OK.

The specific facility without toothbrushes and soap is 24 hour or less processing center.

My kids used the same lice comb. You have to clean it between uses. Have you read that they're moving from kid to kid w/o sanitizing the combs in boiling water?

If you treated your kids like this someone would call CPS. But you know that and are just trolling.

Why would I troll? I've called CPS on a few occasions. I know what abuse is- physical, emotional, and sexual.

But you believe what you want. I really don't care.

I'm still asking what you want them to do. If there isn't enough space, for example, where do they sleep? And if they're in close quarters, they will continue to pass along lice and illnesses. Sleeping on a cot won't stop the lice, which takes DAYS to remove. Sleeping on a cot won't stop the spread of illnesses. Sleeping in close quarters won't prevent any sexual misconduct from occurring either.

I am sure these BP folks are frustrated and tired, and thus, taking some cruel measures. Of course that's wrong, but this job - similar to some military experiences - comes with its own PTSD. BP also have families - many of them - which means they themselves have to protect their health.

So it's easy to read a story in The New Yorker, for example, and then make a generalization about all detention camp conditions and all BP. I know, however, with 100% certainty that you would not last a day in that job. I don't care how compassionate you THINK you are, but it's easy to become hardened b/c of unbearable and unmanageable situations.

Um, cruelty is never ok. Especially to kids. It doesn't matter if someone has been cruel to you beforehand, that doesn't make it ok to take it out on others. Especially kids. If you feel like you have to, then you need to step away from the job. I don't care how sympathetic to BP you THINK you are, lets see how you'd handle it if they were supervising YOUR kids. I doubt you'd be so willing to give a pass to their cruelty. At least, I hope you wouldn't.

Then you pay more money to either hire more BP (b/c there are simply not enough) or find other for profit centers that are more efficient and humane.

And while you're at it, stop the abuse in foster care, too. But that's too close to home, I bet.

It's easy to pick a cause when it doesn't directly affect you b/c it's a thousand miles away.

No on is advocating for inhumane treatment. But the hypocrisy is maddening. These kids are entering with trauma, illness and lice (least of our worries), and if too many are coming in, a few BPs with limited resources cannot do a damn thing about it. So preach it, hon! But your words also don't mean a damn thing.

Umm, YOU are advocating for inhumane treatment when you say "Oh, those poor BP guards. They have a tough job, so it's ok if they abuse children". They shouldn't be apprehending these children if they can't house them without abusing them.

I am realistic in how I view situations. You're the one who's putting words into my mouth, which is not surprising to me.

I NEVER SAID it was fine to abuse children. As I've noted upthread, I have had far too many "conversations" with CPS in my lifetime. However, I'd like to see the ratio of BP to children.

and this "apprehending these children if they can't house them w/o abusing them?" WHAT?

What would you like them to do with these children who cross? Many don't come with their parents. And even if they did stay with their parents, how does that solve the problem of overcrowded conditions? lice and illnesses being spread? Do you really think the BP are THAT abusive?

one broad stroke of the brush - They're all monsters!

Give me a break.

DP. Here's a novel idea: if you're working at one of these facilities, how about the first glimpse you get of a crisis brewing involving children, you raise the alarm. If the overlords in Washington don't respond immediately, you put out a general call to the public for donations and help. So that at the very least you get adequate supplies.

But according to this article, border patrol will not accept donations and turns people away who show up at the camps with them: https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/24/texas-border-facility-donations-turned-away/

[Anonymous]

@Kaivan Shroff
To put denying $10,000 of soap and toothpaste to detained migrant children into context....over $100,000,000 of US taxpayer money has gone towards Trump's golf trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:@Kaivan Shroff
To put denying $10,000 of soap and toothpaste to detained migrant children into context....over $100,000,000 of US taxpayer money has gone towards Trump's golf trips.

Ouch. That reach had to have pulled a muscle.

[Anonymous]

Open borders isn't working out so well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So at remote border outposts overwhelmed by large volume drop offs we want the same standard of care as at long term facilities? Meanwhile rural Americans dont see a doctor, at all, for four years. Meanwhile our current deficit (that American children will pay) is 207 billion dollars. This years government budget gap rose to 42 percent (what comes in with taxes/goes out in expenditures). We are hosting our visitors on borrowed money - is it like monopoly money? Just trying to connect all the dots in this crisis.

Blaming our country’s failings of poor people on other poor people.
If only we could get rid of these illegal poor people then all the good things will shower down upon you legal poor people.

Resources are finite. If we are providing for illegal poor people, legal poor people are getting shafted.

You're evading the point. When the government takes custody of a person, then the government assumes the responsibility to treat them humanely. This isn't about some kind of government benefit being provided to "illegal poor persons," but rather deplorable detention conditions.

For one night? In a facility that's overwhelmed? That IS humane. Sorry.

Stop lying. They’ve been there for weeks - as noted in this breaking Times story. Now many of them have finally been moved.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/24/us/border-migrant-children-detention-soap.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

+1 For those who are literacy challenged.

Following a public outcry, hundreds of migrant children have been transferred out of a filthy Border Patrol station in Texas where they were detained for weeks without access to soap, clean clothes or adequate food, the authorities confirmed on Monday.

Some of the children were transferred into a shelter system maintained by the Department of Health and Human Services, while others were sent to a temporary tent facility in El Paso, according to Elizabeth Lopez-Sandoval, a spokeswoman for Congresswoman Veronica Escobar, who began looking into the overcrowded facility in Clint, Tex., last week after reports about the conditions there.

The move came days after a group of lawyers was given access to the station in Clint and said they saw children as young as 8 years old caring for infants, toddlers with no diapers, and children who said they were waking up at night because they were hungry. After they arrived on June 17 and observed the conditions, the lawyers immediately began lobbying for the children to be released.

The Border Patrol had been routing children to Clint because the agency was facing an unusually large influx of border crossers and had insufficient space to house them during the normal 72-hour processing period at the border. The infants there had either been separated from adult family members with whom they had crossed the border or were the children of teenage mothers who were also detained there. Some of the minors had been detained there for nearly a month.

They've had these some of these kids in these DEPLORABLE conditions for more than a month. These Government workers should be ashamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@Kaivan Shroff
To put denying $10,000 of soap and toothpaste to detained migrant children into context....over $100,000,000 of US taxpayer money has gone towards Trump's golf trips.

Ouch. That reach had to have pulled a muscle.

I suppose the truth hurts. One could also compare the $100,000,000 in extra Secret Service costs for Melania to stay in NYC so the President's child wouldn't have to switch schools mid-year. But yes, let's complain about the cost of soap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@Kaivan Shroff
To put denying $10,000 of soap and toothpaste to detained migrant children into context....over $100,000,000 of US taxpayer money has gone towards Trump's golf trips.

Ouch. That reach had to have pulled a muscle.

I suppose the truth hurts. One could also compare the $100,000,000 in extra Secret Service costs for Melania to stay in NYC so the President's child wouldn't have to switch schools mid-year. But yes, let's complain about the cost of soap.

Weird. If Democrats gave a crap they would have appropriated enough and planned ahead. You did read that a member of Congress was responsible for getting the ball rolling on getting these kids into more ratio appropriate and better conditions. So, you see, screaming at the very people who have been sounding the alarm about this crisis will only make you hoarse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@Kaivan Shroff
To put denying $10,000 of soap and toothpaste to detained migrant children into context....over $100,000,000 of US taxpayer money has gone towards Trump's golf trips.

Ouch. That reach had to have pulled a muscle.

I suppose the truth hurts. One could also compare the $100,000,000 in extra Secret Service costs for Melania to stay in NYC so the President's child wouldn't have to switch schools mid-year. But yes, let's complain about the cost of soap.

Weird. If Democrats gave a crap they would have appropriated enough and planned ahead. You did read that a member of Congress was responsible for getting the ball rolling on getting these kids into more ratio appropriate and better conditions. So, you see, screaming at the very people who have been sounding the alarm about this crisis will only make you hoarse.

Screaming at them is what gets them to start acting on it.

[Anonymous]

And as has been noted in the articles, many of these kids have family in the US willing to take them, so there IS a solution here. But then we couldn’t be cruel to the little brown kids, and where’s the fun in that?!

Cruelty is a feature of this administration, not a bug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@Kaivan Shroff
To put denying $10,000 of soap and toothpaste to detained migrant children into context....over $100,000,000 of US taxpayer money has gone towards Trump's golf trips.

Ouch. That reach had to have pulled a muscle.

I suppose the truth hurts. One could also compare the $100,000,000 in extra Secret Service costs for Melania to stay in NYC so the President's child wouldn't have to switch schools mid-year. But yes, let's complain about the cost of soap.

Weird. If Democrats gave a crap they would have appropriated enough and planned ahead. You did read that a member of Congress was responsible for getting the ball rolling on getting these kids into more ratio appropriate and better conditions. So, you see, screaming at the very people who have been sounding the alarm about this crisis will only make you hoarse.

Screaming at them is what gets them to start acting on it.

Bring it up with a Member of Congress. A Member of Congress helped get results. I guarantee a constituent or lobbying interest contacted them, not screaming, and effectuated change.

Keep yelling at all of us who saw this coming is a waste of time. Do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@Kaivan Shroff
To put denying $10,000 of soap and toothpaste to detained migrant children into context....over $100,000,000 of US taxpayer money has gone towards Trump's golf trips.

Ouch. That reach had to have pulled a muscle.

I suppose the truth hurts. One could also compare the $100,000,000 in extra Secret Service costs for Melania to stay in NYC so the President's child wouldn't have to switch schools mid-year. But yes, let's complain about the cost of soap.

Weird. If Democrats gave a crap they would have appropriated enough and planned ahead. You did read that a member of Congress was responsible for getting the ball rolling on getting these kids into more ratio appropriate and better conditions. So, you see, screaming at the very people who have been sounding the alarm about this crisis will only make you hoarse.

Screaming at them is what gets them to start acting on it.

Bring it up with a Member of Congress. A Member of Congress helped get results. I guarantee a constituent or lobbying interest contacted them, not screaming, and effectuated change.

Keep yelling at all of us who saw this coming is a waste of time. Do better.

I'm curious why you take the posts on this thread to be personally yelling at you.

[Anonymous]

Lawyers who went to talk to the children give their eyewitness report:

Children described to us that they’ve been there for three weeks or longer. And so, immediately from that population that we were trying to triage, they were filthy dirty, there was mucus on their shirts, the shirts were dirty. We saw breast milk on the shirts. There was food on the shirts, and the pants as well. They told us that they were hungry. They told us that some of them had not showered or had not showered until the day or two days before we arrived. Many of them described that they only brushed their teeth once. This facility knew last week that we were coming. The government knew three weeks ago that we were coming.

So, in any event, the children told us that nobody’s taking care of them, so that basically the older children are trying to take care of the younger children. The guards are asking the younger children or the older children, “Who wants to take care of this little boy? Who wants to take of this little girl?” and they’ll bring in a two-year-old, a three-year-old, a four-year-old. And then the littlest kids are expected to be taken care of by the older kids, but then some of the oldest children lose interest in it, and little children get handed off to other children. And sometimes we hear about the littlest children being alone by themselves on the floor.


Almost every child that we interviewed had a parent or relative in the United States. Many of them had parents in the United States and were coming here to be with their parents. Some of the children that we interviewed had been separated from their parents. Most of them were separated from other adult relatives. Almost all the children came across with an adult family member and were separated from them by the Border Patrol. Some of them were separated from their parents themselves; other times it was a grandmother or aunt or an older sibling. We don’t know where the parents are being kept.

There are some other stories that we’ve heard from the children, such as that one of the guards has an older child, who’s seventeen, serve as the unofficial guard inside the room. So he tells the kids what to do, and he tries to keep the room neat and straighten up the mattresses and everything. Now, the guards reward him with extra food, and when a seven-year-old saw that this older boy was getting extra food by being helpful, he asked if he could help clean up the room and keep it neat so that he, too, could get extra food. And the seventeen-year-old chastised him for this, and then when an older sibling tried to stand up for his little brother, the guard intervened and reprimanded both the little boy and his older brother.

Even the little things—when they are transporting the babies, transporting the toddlers and the preschoolers, they are not putting them in infant seats or booster seats, and they are driving along Texas highways, all of which require children to be properly placed in the vehicle.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/inside-a-texas-building-where-the-government-is-holding-immigrant-children?fbclid=IwAR22eMsT0l9RWGdM2P0OGK45fvc_NjJpn3Gmkfxa26o-hPvV6s62Mpss-nY