Making time for kids? Study says quality trumps quantity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

They can't. These are mutually exclusive goals.

Depends if the young children are getting cared for by someone who is competent, loving and stable. It's usually impossible to get stability if it's not a parent or other family member.

Enough with the mother vs. father!
It doesn't much matter.

Thank you for this completely unsupported opinion.

Which opinion don't you like?

That you are de facto a bad mom if your kids are cared for during work hours by someone other than a parent or other family member. That's what you said, right? Good mom = stable environment, and stable environment = parent or family member. Ridiculous.

I know tons of kids who grew up going to day cares. Most are doing great. Some are not. I also know tons of people who grew up with SAHMs. Most are doing great, some are not. There is absolutely no difference. And also, many of the day care kids had much more "stable" home lives than some of the kids with SAHMs.

Please reread what I wrote.

If the caregiver is
COMPETENT
LOVING
STABLE
it's fine.

Hence, "The Hell of American Daycare."

No such research documenting the hell of the American SAHM.
And no, I am not a SAHM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the deal. The very existence of SAHMs makes working moms guilty. The very existence of working moms makes SAHMs guilty. Many commenters here have simply summarized their current situations, and then someone has come along and said "stop making me feel guilty." No one makes you feel anything. Your feelings originate in your own brain.

Yeah, I don't see a lot of WOHMs telling SAHMs they're doing it wrong. This "debate" seems to be WOHMs saying "Really, we're fine" and SAHMs saying "NO YOU'RE NOT!"

You've got to be joking. Read the entire thread, or read the Mommy Wars thread. Plenty of WOHMs trying to tell SAHMs that what they do is "pointless". And those are the most pathetic posts of all because the people writing them really do consider taking care of their own kids a "pointless" task.

I think when WOHMs say "we're fine" you're hearing "what you do is pointless". You seem really invested in believing that other people's kids are damaged. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

[Anonymous]

*anti-SAHM*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Perhaps let your children know that dual career parents must first
have in place solid childcare options, and the ability to afford it.

Most parents simply can't afford to both be chasing careers,
AND afford the most expensive period of child care
during the ever critical foundation years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Would you also teach your son the value of SAH as an option? I'm serious, because it seems all the attention is on what we are going to teach our daughters.

[Anonymous]

All our children should learn that little ones require
competent, loving, and stable care.

One of the most effective ways of teaching,
is to model it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

Sorry, but you are wrong. I'm the nanny and most of the children I care for, are neglected by their parents. Just sharing my observations here.

Btw, of the handful of nannies I've known, all but one were complete idiots who I would never leave my children with. I would not, however, purport to generalize my limited anecdotes to all nannies, because that would make me an idiot.

But somehow your nanny is just wonderful, a veritable Mary Poppins, right? I'm always amazed at parents who actually believe their nannies adore their children. It's simply a job to them, and one they don't get paid nearly enough to do. Same goes for daycare workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All our children should learn that little ones require
competent, loving, and stable care.

One of the most effective ways of teaching,
is to model it.

Are you trying to write haikus?

One of the most appropriate ways of using commas,
Is not like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

Sorry, but you are wrong. I'm the nanny and most of the children I care for, are neglected by their parents. Just sharing my observations here.

Btw, of the handful of nannies I've known, all but one were complete idiots who I would never leave my children with. I would not, however, purport to generalize my limited anecdotes to all nannies, because that would make me an idiot.

But somehow your nanny is just wonderful, a veritable Mary Poppins, right? I'm always amazed at parents who actually believe their nannies adore their children. It's simply a job to them, and one they don't get paid nearly enough to do. Same goes for daycare workers.

I'm not that poster, but you genuinely don't believe it is possible for nannies or daycare teachers to care about the kids? How sad for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

Sorry, but you are wrong. I'm the nanny and most of the children I care for, are neglected by their parents. Just sharing my observations here.

Btw, of the handful of nannies I've known, all but one were complete idiots who I would never leave my children with. I would not, however, purport to generalize my limited anecdotes to all nannies, because that would make me an idiot.

But somehow your nanny is just wonderful, a veritable Mary Poppins, right? I'm always amazed at parents who actually believe their nannies adore their children. It's simply a job to them, and one they don't get paid nearly enough to do. Same goes for daycare workers.

That's not true. My aunt owns a daycare in Virginia and she loves her children. Perhaps you do not enjoy children. But there are people who are naturally very maternal and really do like being around kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Pp here. The WOHMs I know IRL are generally not the judgmental types who seem to populate DCUM. My response was to the previous PP who seems to believe SAHMs will tell their daughters they simply can't work and raise children at the same time. I would never tell my kids this. However, I do think children (both sons and daughters) need to be aware of what is sacrificed when both parents are working full time and how having a SAHP can add add incredible value to the entire family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.