Daughter gets hit on at work - solutions?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We need to know more. First, how old is the kid? Second, how exactly is she being "hit on" besides being asked for her number? Third, how old are the guys who are doing the hitting on/number asking? Finally, how often is this happening?

Depending on these answers, the range of responses could be anywhere from "this is disgusting, she needs to quit NOW" to "she's not cut out to be a server and needs to quit now."

Women shouldn't need to quit, they should be able to feel safe doing their job.

Depends on the answers to my questions. If we're talking about a 16 year old who can't handle another 16 year old asking for her number while she's a server not feeling "safe," then she's the problem. She needs to find another job where she can feel "safe."

I have an irrational fear of heights. That doesn't mean that the operators of a toll bridge with the collection booth on top are obligated to make me feel "safe" up there. It just means I have to work somewhere else.

Please stop hitting on girls/women just trying to do their job. Your questions are irrelevant.

I have daughters. I'm not saying this SHOULD happen. I think it's gross. But that doesn't necessarily make it harassment per se. I think context matters here just like everywhere else.

We're a tipping culture. You may not like it, but it is what it is. If you can't provide service with a smile and allow some gentle banter, then your tips are going to suffer and the job might not be for you. Yes, on occasion you're going to have to deal with some idiot who's socially awkward who misinterprets things and does something stupid like ask for your number. That, in itself, is not harassment. It just isn't. At least not in every instance and under all circumstances. If you can't help but get flustered over any kind of flirting by any customer when you're a server, to the point that it effects how you work (as OP says it is for her daughter), well, then maybe it's just not the job for you. If more than that is going on consistently, then yes there's a problem.

That's why I said we need context. If you can't understand such a thing as nuance or context, then there's no dealing with you. No one, least of all me, is saying that a young woman server has to put up with any bullshit that an idiot customer dishes out.

Except it does. Simple as that. Your denial of reality or trying to change the definition of a word because you dont like it just simply doesnt matter.

Then I guess every woman who has ever dated any man she's met at work is an unknowing victim of sexual harassment.

Are you truly this simple? This incapable of nuance?

Meeting a man at work isn't a problem. Having your compensation determined by a man who wants to get in your pants IS.

POWER IMBALANCE. If there's a power imbalance, it's harassment. If you're the customer and she's working for your tip, and your satisfaction with her performance has anything to do with her reaction to your inappropriate come-ons, rather than with the efficiency of the food delivery and the frequency of the refills, you are harassing her.

I didn't know that whenever a man asks a woman for her phone number it automatically means he wants to "get into your pants." Sorry. My bad.

Yeah, what about the many, many guys who just want to hold hands? Or drink one milkshake together out of two straws? That's what most men's goal is when asking for a woman's number, right?

Do you feel that way about your husband and your son?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would rehearse scenarios with her and practice come backs, and what to do if things escalate. I would also ask her to tell her boss these things are happening so they and other waiters can watch out for her. But definitely rehearse with her so that she feels more comfortable standing up for herself.

Spill hot soup on them. Apologize profusely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would rehearse scenarios with her and practice come backs, and what to do if things escalate. I would also ask her to tell her boss these things are happening so they and other waiters can watch out for her. But definitely rehearse with her so that she feels more comfortable standing up for herself.

Spill hot soup on them. Apologize profusely.

Some guys would tip extra for that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ok, so I’m the poster who another poster is screaming at claiming that I’m a pervert and monster. I’ve calmly been surfing the web to gather rational thoughts on this and basically have gathered this:

From a legal standpoint, it is without question not harassment for a customer to politely ask a server on a one time basis for her phone number. If the customer persists following a “no”, however, it absolutely is harassment.

But, harassment or not, it’s still not considered appropriate even to ask for the phone number on a one time basis. It’s awkward and puts the server in a bad position. Instead, as I now see was just suggested above, the recommendation is for the customer to leave his phone number at the table with an invitation for the server to contact him if she is interested.

This all makes a lot of sense to me.

This is just not true. It IS harassment. If you want to share your sources, please do. Other people have posted the actual definition and it wholly encompasses OPs daughters situation as such.

I’ll put it to you this way:

If a customer were to ask OP‘s daughter one time for her phone number while she was waiting on him, and she were to decline and complain to her boss about it, and her boss were to tell her that he was going to do nothing about it, take a guess how far OP’s daughter would get if she were to sue her boss for tolerating sexual harassment in her workplace? I’ll give you a hint: not very.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is such a weird thread.

Asking for someone’s number is not harassment. A bit low class to do it to a server when you are a customer but not harassment.

There is no need to wear a wedding ring, apologize or offer any explanation. A simple polite no should suffice.

No need to dramatize a non dramatic situation.

Yeah agree, I don’t see what the big deal is. I’m a woman and waited tables from age 15-21.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We need to know more. First, how old is the kid? Second, how exactly is she being "hit on" besides being asked for her number? Third, how old are the guys who are doing the hitting on/number asking? Finally, how often is this happening?

Depending on these answers, the range of responses could be anywhere from "this is disgusting, she needs to quit NOW" to "she's not cut out to be a server and needs to quit now."

Women shouldn't need to quit, they should be able to feel safe doing their job.

Depends on the answers to my questions. If we're talking about a 16 year old who can't handle another 16 year old asking for her number while she's a server not feeling "safe," then she's the problem. She needs to find another job where she can feel "safe."

I have an irrational fear of heights. That doesn't mean that the operators of a toll bridge with the collection booth on top are obligated to make me feel "safe" up there. It just means I have to work somewhere else.

Please stop hitting on girls/women just trying to do their job. Your questions are irrelevant.

I have daughters. I'm not saying this SHOULD happen. I think it's gross. But that doesn't necessarily make it harassment per se. I think context matters here just like everywhere else.

We're a tipping culture. You may not like it, but it is what it is. If you can't provide service with a smile and allow some gentle banter, then your tips are going to suffer and the job might not be for you. Yes, on occasion you're going to have to deal with some idiot who's socially awkward who misinterprets things and does something stupid like ask for your number. That, in itself, is not harassment. It just isn't. At least not in every instance and under all circumstances. If you can't help but get flustered over any kind of flirting by any customer when you're a server, to the point that it effects how you work (as OP says it is for her daughter), well, then maybe it's just not the job for you. If more than that is going on consistently, then yes there's a problem.

That's why I said we need context. If you can't understand such a thing as nuance or context, then there's no dealing with you. No one, least of all me, is saying that a young woman server has to put up with any bullshit that an idiot customer dishes out.

Except it does. Simple as that. Your denial of reality or trying to change the definition of a word because you dont like it just simply doesnt matter.

Then I guess every woman who has ever dated any man she's met at work is an unknowing victim of sexual harassment.

Are you truly this simple? This incapable of nuance?

Meeting a man at work isn't a problem. Having your compensation determined by a man who wants to get in your pants IS.

POWER IMBALANCE. If there's a power imbalance, it's harassment. If you're the customer and she's working for your tip, and your satisfaction with her performance has anything to do with her reaction to your inappropriate come-ons, rather than with the efficiency of the food delivery and the frequency of the refills, you are harassing her.

I didn't know that whenever a man asks a woman for her phone number it automatically means he wants to "get into your pants." Sorry. My bad.

Yeah, what about the many, many guys who just want to hold hands? Or drink one milkshake together out of two straws? That's what most men's goal is when asking for a woman's number, right?

Do you feel that way about your husband and your son?

DP. I do.
When I met my husband, he was 25, and he was definitely interested in sex with me. I was sexually active at that point in my life, and I wouldn’t have wanted to date any man who didn’t want sex.
My son is 16, and he is probably realistically more looking to have a milkshake with two straws. But he also isn’t hitting on waitresses. He likes one of my 15 year old daughter’s friends, and he will probably ask her to homecoming this fall.

It’s a bizarre thing as a 17 year old girl to go from dating boys who nervously ask you to homecoming to having adult men tell you that they are sexually attracted.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know if OP is still reading this, but I had a conversation with my mom about this when I was 18. She was pretty blunt with me and told me that men watch a lot of porn and think that all 18 year old girls are looking to have sex with men they just met and that if I wasn’t interested I needed to be pretty blunt about it. Knowing that they thought that and that I wasn’t misinterpreting anything or being rude made things a lot easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We need to know more. First, how old is the kid? Second, how exactly is she being "hit on" besides being asked for her number? Third, how old are the guys who are doing the hitting on/number asking? Finally, how often is this happening?

Depending on these answers, the range of responses could be anywhere from "this is disgusting, she needs to quit NOW" to "she's not cut out to be a server and needs to quit now."

Women shouldn't need to quit, they should be able to feel safe doing their job.

Depends on the answers to my questions. If we're talking about a 16 year old who can't handle another 16 year old asking for her number while she's a server not feeling "safe," then she's the problem. She needs to find another job where she can feel "safe."

I have an irrational fear of heights. That doesn't mean that the operators of a toll bridge with the collection booth on top are obligated to make me feel "safe" up there. It just means I have to work somewhere else.

Please stop hitting on girls/women just trying to do their job. Your questions are irrelevant.

I have daughters. I'm not saying this SHOULD happen. I think it's gross. But that doesn't necessarily make it harassment per se. I think context matters here just like everywhere else.

We're a tipping culture. You may not like it, but it is what it is. If you can't provide service with a smile and allow some gentle banter, then your tips are going to suffer and the job might not be for you. Yes, on occasion you're going to have to deal with some idiot who's socially awkward who misinterprets things and does something stupid like ask for your number. That, in itself, is not harassment. It just isn't. At least not in every instance and under all circumstances. If you can't help but get flustered over any kind of flirting by any customer when you're a server, to the point that it effects how you work (as OP says it is for her daughter), well, then maybe it's just not the job for you. If more than that is going on consistently, then yes there's a problem.

That's why I said we need context. If you can't understand such a thing as nuance or context, then there's no dealing with you. No one, least of all me, is saying that a young woman server has to put up with any bullshit that an idiot customer dishes out.

Except it does. Simple as that. Your denial of reality or trying to change the definition of a word because you dont like it just simply doesnt matter.

Then I guess every woman who has ever dated any man she's met at work is an unknowing victim of sexual harassment.

Are you truly this simple? This incapable of nuance?

Meeting a man at work isn't a problem. Having your compensation determined by a man who wants to get in your pants IS.

POWER IMBALANCE. If there's a power imbalance, it's harassment. If you're the customer and she's working for your tip, and your satisfaction with her performance has anything to do with her reaction to your inappropriate come-ons, rather than with the efficiency of the food delivery and the frequency of the refills, you are harassing her.

I didn't know that whenever a man asks a woman for her phone number it automatically means he wants to "get into your pants." Sorry. My bad.

Yeah, what about the many, many guys who just want to hold hands? Or drink one milkshake together out of two straws? That's what most men's goal is when asking for a woman's number, right?

Do you feel that way about your husband and your son?

DP. I do.
When I met my husband, he was 25, and he was definitely interested in sex with me. I was sexually active at that point in my life, and I wouldn’t have wanted to date any man who didn’t want sex.
My son is 16, and he is probably realistically more looking to have a milkshake with two straws. But he also isn’t hitting on waitresses. He likes one of my 15 year old daughter’s friends, and he will probably ask her to homecoming this fall.

It’s a bizarre thing as a 17 year old girl to go from dating boys who nervously ask you to homecoming to having adult men tell you that they are sexually attracted.

Your 16 year-old son wants sex. Trust me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know if OP is still reading this, but I had a conversation with my mom about this when I was 18. She was pretty blunt with me and told me that men watch a lot of porn and think that all 18 year old girls are looking to have sex with men they just met and that if I wasn’t interested I needed to be pretty blunt about it. Knowing that they thought that and that I wasn’t misinterpreting anything or being rude made things a lot easier.

Your mother has issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was also sensitive and felt yucky about unwanted male attention. If these guys are just asking for her number and not creepy I think with time she can learn to say flattered but taken/not looking. For inappropriate remarks she should report to the manager and see if they will reassign another waitress to the table

I never say "I'm taken" nor do I advise girls to say that. It encourages men to only respect other mens' property. Men need to learn sometimes a woman (girl) would rather be a single cat lady because men are just THAT shitty, and if they want women to date they need to raise their personal bar.

Yes a quick white lie deflection should be a f you to all men

[Anonymous]

Make her gain 20lbs. She will be left alone.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No one has explained why lifeguard and babysitter are better than waitress for a teen.

Waitresses are fully clothed, in public, and not responsible for anyone's life or safety.

Please explain

I got hit on all of the time as a lifeguard at a condominium pool. I remember how uncomfortable it was, and I feel for OP’s daughter. At 17 all of my experience with men was with teenage boys. And maybe there were some teenage boys who were sexually assertive with girls, but I wasn’t in those circles. The boys I knew were the kind that you know for months or years and then you go out on group dates where you kiss at the ice skating rink.
And then, all of a sudden, I was being hit on by grown adult men who were commenting on my body and obviously wanted to have sex with me.
It was definitely unnerving.

Yep. God it is disgusting to be 17-18 and come to the realization that men your dads age want to have sex with you.

I was lucky (?) but have heard many, many tales of tipsy dads getting handsy in the car when driving the teen babysitter home.

This is apocryphal. I think you’re confusing your p*rn history.

I think you have never been a shy 17 or 18 year old girl in the age of “barely legal” porn being consumed by every man in your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is waiting tables this summer, and gets hit on/ asked for her number. It makes her really uncomfortable. And she says it wrecks her focus and she doesn't feel like she does as good a job after one of these incidents. Of course I've told her it gets better with practice (ugh) and that this is just part of being in the world, but I still hate it for her.

I was a waitress at her age too, and remember lots of inappropriate men but I was pretty bold at that age and it didn't ruin my day the way it does hers. She and I have very different personalities. I once dumped a pitcher of ice water on a guy who patted my butt. She would shrivel up and die if someone did that to her.

I'd love some ideas on how she can respond to them, and for reframing these interactions for her.

Tell her to politely say "no thanks" or ignore as appropriate. If it gets out of hand, she needs to talk with her boss. It can be difficult, but she will need to learn how to handle herself. Turn someone down politely, then be blunt, then escalate as needed.

If anyone touches her, becomes verbally inappropriate, or doesn't take a direct "no" for an answer- that's the time to escalate. Once your DD becomes more confident and learns how to effectively deal with these situations, it will stop ruining her day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:She needs to tell her boss it's happening and ask them how to handle it. It's not up to her mother.

So mom should say "not my problem, handle it yourself"

Do I have that right?

No. Mom should tell her to talk to her boss about it and do what they say. Are you obtuse or do you just want to argue with me?

Crazy response.
1) Mom cares and wants to help dd figure this out.
2) I’m not seeing where the customers are disrespectful. It would be nice to not get hit on but these aren’t colleagues. Not sure what manager should do if people ask for a number but are not bothering her if she says no or if she doesn’t flirt back.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You can’t have a societal norm and expectation that men have to make the first move, show interest first and make the connection and then also get mad when they do. If men only showed interest in women who have already explicitly invited that interest there would be a lot of single women in the world. Outside of online dating, it is almost always men asking for numbers and making a move.

But the waitress is not someone who is searching for a romantic partner—she's someone trying to find out if you want pancakes. It's not appropriate to ask your boss for a date, the police officer who just pulled you over or the garbage man while he hoists your bin. Let waitresses find out if you want pancakes without hassling them. If you see someone, in an appropriate environment, like a party, bar or other social event, then you can ask them—whether it's your teacher, the cop who pulled you over, the garbageman or your waitress from the pancake house.

How does one know that a woman is searching for a romantic partner? That would be great if there was a clear indicator that says, hit on me.

I don’t think it’s appropriate necessarily but I am sure there are plenty of meet cute stories of customers and waitresses and happily ever after. One of my cousins married a flight attendant he hit on during a flight (working and no indicator of interest), my friend married a guy who was the tow truck driver who came after she crashed her car. Again he was at work. I also know other couples who met when one was at work or where there were no clear neon lights of single and looking to mingle.

Here's a hint: if your target is captive to you because of their work, it's a bad idea.

The waitress was assigned to your table. She's not trying to eff everyone who is seated in her section. If she is, she can let you know. Don't make her job harder.

If your friend was happy hitting on the tow truck driver, that was her choice—if he had pursued her, it would've been a different story.

What do you mean it’s her choice? The tow truck driver was just assigned to her, doing his job and she started harassing him! Disgusting behavior.

I’m going to guess that they had a conversation while he was towing her car, and they made a connection.

Nope! He gave her his card to find out where her car was towed to. She was picked up from the accident scene by family. She called him the next day about her car, she thanked him for trying to calm her down, told him she was glad it was a cute guy who came to her rescue, and she asked him if he wanted to meet up.

Lesson: it’s endearing when women hit on men (even at work) and it’s TOXIC HARASSMENT men when hit on women.

Hopefully men start paying attention. Women don’t want to be hit on the same way men want to be hit on.

If men that hit on women end up hooking up with more women than men that do not, nothing will change. The only way for it to change is for women to specifically hook up with the respectful types more than the players. I’m married and have no dog in this hunt anymore, I’m just observing.

Blah blah blah