Is there a "post-truth" majority in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

"I'm a Democrat" - who spews a constant stream of frothy bile and hatred at Democrats, and who peddles MAGA talking points, every chance you get. And you certainly are no defender of science or truth, given you have not been able to make your case in any fact-based way supported by science, and in fact have repeatedly been slapped down by citations posted by others.

You're wasting your time here. Nobody here believes you and we are nowhere near as impressed with you as you are with yourself.

Actually you’ve lost on every scientific point you’ve attempted to engage on, and you don’t even understand that. It’s actually kind of funny.

You are threatened by people like me, who won’t blindly believe everything the Democrats say because a Democrat said it, so you lash out with fury.

The Democrats are losing voters. This is incontrovertible at this point. And what are they doing in response? Acting like you: insisting on rigid orthodoxy of thought, purging the Party of dissent, embracing suppression of speech with an alacrity that would make Xi proud. It’s exactly the opposite of what should happen, but Party power now resides with people like you now, who cannot countenance an independent thought and who will never tolerate science or truth that contradicts the word of a Democratic politician.

You’re going to get Trump elected, you know.

Tell me, what exactly did you win on? I haven't been on for the entirety of this thread but the things I engaged on were:

1. "Masks don't work" citing the Cochrane study. Except they do work, there are many independent real-world studies from around the world that prove this, and there's a reason that surgeons wear them - because they work. Not a win for your side.

2. "Mask mandates don't work" - claimed, with zero evidence cited to support it. And again, there are numerous studies from around the world which included mask mandates which showed effectiveness. Not a win for your side.

3. "Yabut toddlers can't properly put on or keep on a mask" - sure but thankfully most people aren't toddlers and the toddlers generally have grown-ups to help them with that. You maybe get 0.3 of a point on that one.

4. "Yabut surgeons have to get properly fitted for N95 masks" - untrue. Most surgeons wear the same N95/KN95 commercial ear-loop masks that the rest of us wore during the pandemic. There's no special "fitting" for those. You're thinking about respirators, which is a totally different thing. Not a win for your side.

You didn't win much of anything on any of the discussion that I was part of. What's pretty funny is that you got your ass kicked and can't own up to it, you're evidenly stuck in the denial and delusion stages of grief. And no, hon - I'm not in the least threatened by you, given I kicked your ass.

LOL. You didn’t even understand the argument, let alone hold it. I think it’s hysterical that what you wrote above is what you think this conversation has been about. Man. You are so dim.

Cool story bro. Everyone here understands perfectly that you lost the debate. Repeatedly. And your lack of any cogent response other than a dippy "man ur dim" only further makes the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

Whoah whoah whoah you are really far off the deep end here, into the realm of irrational.

What here are we supposedly "slavishly believing, just because a Democrat said it?" I believe that masks work. Not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I believe the vaccines work, not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I could care less what a Democrat (or Republican) says about the pandemic, unless they happen to be an expert in vaccines, respiratory disease, epidemiology or other relevant fields

What "power" have I gained in the Democratic party? I am not a Democratic official, I am just a regular citizen. One who in fact was for over 2 decades a registered Republican. And you are "disturbed" by "my power" in the party. Really bizarre comment.

And where do you get off claiming I am "wholly unable to question" the party? You don't know me. You don't know a damn thing about me. I do in fact question the party. While I welcome and value immigration, I do think we need to do more to secure the border and to fix our broken system. You could ask Charles Allen about the people who have been hounding him to improve the crime situation in DC. I'm one of them. Please stop making completely unfounded, over-the-top comments presuming I'm some brainless follower proclaiming the sky to be neon pink when you are dead wrong. Again, how utterly bizarre of you.

For someone who's touting being an independent, critical thinker you appear to be nothing of the sort. You have convinced yourself based on a complete lack of understanding and complete misunderstanding of people around you. You have convinced yourself with everything BUT facts and rationality.

Well said. We aren't blind cultish followers. We don't go everywhere wearing Biden hats, we don't have our lawns filled with Biden flags, we don't turn a blind eye if a Democrat is caught in a crime or corruption scandal, we don't flock to Biden rallies as if it were a revivalist preacher's tent, we don't blindly repeat everything Biden says as if it were gospel, let alone "neon pink skies" - the pp claiming all of this comes across as completely unhinged and leaves me wondering whether they actually do in fact personally know any actual Democrats because there's not a single person in my circle of Democrats who is like that. The whole thing comes off as delusional MAGA projection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

"I'm a Democrat" - who spews a constant stream of frothy bile and hatred at Democrats, and who peddles MAGA talking points, every chance you get. And you certainly are no defender of science or truth, given you have not been able to make your case in any fact-based way supported by science, and in fact have repeatedly been slapped down by citations posted by others.

You're wasting your time here. Nobody here believes you and we are nowhere near as impressed with you as you are with yourself.

Actually you’ve lost on every scientific point you’ve attempted to engage on, and you don’t even understand that. It’s actually kind of funny.

You are threatened by people like me, who won’t blindly believe everything the Democrats say because a Democrat said it, so you lash out with fury.

The Democrats are losing voters. This is incontrovertible at this point. And what are they doing in response? Acting like you: insisting on rigid orthodoxy of thought, purging the Party of dissent, embracing suppression of speech with an alacrity that would make Xi proud. It’s exactly the opposite of what should happen, but Party power now resides with people like you now, who cannot countenance an independent thought and who will never tolerate science or truth that contradicts the word of a Democratic politician.

You’re going to get Trump elected, you know.

Tell me, what exactly did you win on? I haven't been on for the entirety of this thread but the things I engaged on were:

1. "Masks don't work" citing the Cochrane study. Except they do work, there are many independent real-world studies from around the world that prove this, and there's a reason that surgeons wear them - because they work. Not a win for your side.

2. "Mask mandates don't work" - claimed, with zero evidence cited to support it. And again, there are numerous studies from around the world which included mask mandates which showed effectiveness. Not a win for your side.

3. "Yabut toddlers can't properly put on or keep on a mask" - sure but thankfully most people aren't toddlers and the toddlers generally have grown-ups to help them with that. You maybe get 0.3 of a point on that one.

4. "Yabut surgeons have to get properly fitted for N95 masks" - untrue. Most surgeons wear the same N95/KN95 commercial ear-loop masks that the rest of us wore during the pandemic. There's no special "fitting" for those. You're thinking about respirators, which is a totally different thing. Not a win for your side.

You didn't win much of anything on any of the discussion that I was part of. What's pretty funny is that you got your ass kicked and can't own up to it, you're evidenly stuck in the denial and delusion stages of grief. And no, hon - I'm not in the least threatened by you, given I kicked your ass.

That pretty much exactly sums up the last 10 or so pages of debate, thank you. Likewise, the only attempt at science I saw was reference to the Cochrane study to try and discredit masks, which the "I won on science" poster now says they didn't post. Truly bizarre to claim "I won on science" without even posting any science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

"I'm a Democrat" - who spews a constant stream of frothy bile and hatred at Democrats, and who peddles MAGA talking points, every chance you get. And you certainly are no defender of science or truth, given you have not been able to make your case in any fact-based way supported by science, and in fact have repeatedly been slapped down by citations posted by others.

You're wasting your time here. Nobody here believes you and we are nowhere near as impressed with you as you are with yourself.

Actually you’ve lost on every scientific point you’ve attempted to engage on, and you don’t even understand that. It’s actually kind of funny.

You are threatened by people like me, who won’t blindly believe everything the Democrats say because a Democrat said it, so you lash out with fury.

The Democrats are losing voters. This is incontrovertible at this point. And what are they doing in response? Acting like you: insisting on rigid orthodoxy of thought, purging the Party of dissent, embracing suppression of speech with an alacrity that would make Xi proud. It’s exactly the opposite of what should happen, but Party power now resides with people like you now, who cannot countenance an independent thought and who will never tolerate science or truth that contradicts the word of a Democratic politician.

You’re going to get Trump elected, you know.

Tell me, what exactly did you win on? I haven't been on for the entirety of this thread but the things I engaged on were:

1. "Masks don't work" citing the Cochrane study. Except they do work, there are many independent real-world studies from around the world that prove this, and there's a reason that surgeons wear them - because they work. Not a win for your side.

2. "Mask mandates don't work" - claimed, with zero evidence cited to support it. And again, there are numerous studies from around the world which included mask mandates which showed effectiveness. Not a win for your side.

3. "Yabut toddlers can't properly put on or keep on a mask" - sure but thankfully most people aren't toddlers and the toddlers generally have grown-ups to help them with that. You maybe get 0.3 of a point on that one.

4. "Yabut surgeons have to get properly fitted for N95 masks" - untrue. Most surgeons wear the same N95/KN95 commercial ear-loop masks that the rest of us wore during the pandemic. There's no special "fitting" for those. You're thinking about respirators, which is a totally different thing. Not a win for your side.

You didn't win much of anything on any of the discussion that I was part of. What's pretty funny is that you got your ass kicked and can't own up to it, you're evidenly stuck in the denial and delusion stages of grief. And no, hon - I'm not in the least threatened by you, given I kicked your ass.

LOL. You didn’t even understand the argument, let alone hold it. I think it’s hysterical that what you wrote above is what you think this conversation has been about. Man. You are so dim.

Look out man, we got us a stable genius here playing 5-d chess whose arguments on science are so complicated they don't even involve citing any actual science. They are so complex that actual scientists are too dim to understand them /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

Whoah whoah whoah you are really far off the deep end here, into the realm of irrational.

What here are we supposedly "slavishly believing, just because a Democrat said it?" I believe that masks work. Not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I believe the vaccines work, not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I could care less what a Democrat (or Republican) says about the pandemic, unless they happen to be an expert in vaccines, respiratory disease, epidemiology or other relevant fields

What "power" have I gained in the Democratic party? I am not a Democratic official, I am just a regular citizen. One who in fact was for over 2 decades a registered Republican. And you are "disturbed" by "my power" in the party. Really bizarre comment.

And where do you get off claiming I am "wholly unable to question" the party? You don't know me. You don't know a damn thing about me. I do in fact question the party. While I welcome and value immigration, I do think we need to do more to secure the border and to fix our broken system. You could ask Charles Allen about the people who have been hounding him to improve the crime situation in DC. I'm one of them. Please stop making completely unfounded, over-the-top comments presuming I'm some brainless follower proclaiming the sky to be neon pink when you are dead wrong. Again, how utterly bizarre of you.

For someone who's touting being an independent, critical thinker you appear to be nothing of the sort. You have convinced yourself based on a complete lack of understanding and complete misunderstanding of people around you. You have convinced yourself with everything BUT facts and rationality.

Well said. We aren't blind cultish followers. We don't go everywhere wearing Biden hats, we don't have our lawns filled with Biden flags, we don't turn a blind eye if a Democrat is caught in a crime or corruption scandal, we don't flock to Biden rallies as if it were a revivalist preacher's tent, we don't blindly repeat everything Biden says as if it were gospel, let alone "neon pink skies" - the pp claiming all of this comes across as completely unhinged and leaves me wondering whether they actually do in fact personally know any actual Democrats because there's not a single person in my circle of Democrats who is like that. The whole thing comes off as delusional MAGA projection.

There are reasonable republicans who don't do that stuff. Unfortunately, they allow the magahats to be their voice. That's how they are post-truth. The reasonable republicans aren't willing to openly disagree with the magahat wing of their party. Even when they know it to be lies.

I'm still waiting for a republican to explain whether they believe Biden allows open borders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

Whoah whoah whoah you are really far off the deep end here, into the realm of irrational.

What here are we supposedly "slavishly believing, just because a Democrat said it?" I believe that masks work. Not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I believe the vaccines work, not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I could care less what a Democrat (or Republican) says about the pandemic, unless they happen to be an expert in vaccines, respiratory disease, epidemiology or other relevant fields

What "power" have I gained in the Democratic party? I am not a Democratic official, I am just a regular citizen. One who in fact was for over 2 decades a registered Republican. And you are "disturbed" by "my power" in the party. Really bizarre comment.

And where do you get off claiming I am "wholly unable to question" the party? You don't know me. You don't know a damn thing about me. I do in fact question the party. While I welcome and value immigration, I do think we need to do more to secure the border and to fix our broken system. You could ask Charles Allen about the people who have been hounding him to improve the crime situation in DC. I'm one of them. Please stop making completely unfounded, over-the-top comments presuming I'm some brainless follower proclaiming the sky to be neon pink when you are dead wrong. Again, how utterly bizarre of you.

For someone who's touting being an independent, critical thinker you appear to be nothing of the sort. You have convinced yourself based on a complete lack of understanding and complete misunderstanding of people around you. You have convinced yourself with everything BUT facts and rationality.

Well said. We aren't blind cultish followers. We don't go everywhere wearing Biden hats, we don't have our lawns filled with Biden flags, we don't turn a blind eye if a Democrat is caught in a crime or corruption scandal, we don't flock to Biden rallies as if it were a revivalist preacher's tent, we don't blindly repeat everything Biden says as if it were gospel, let alone "neon pink skies" - the pp claiming all of this comes across as completely unhinged and leaves me wondering whether they actually do in fact personally know any actual Democrats because there's not a single person in my circle of Democrats who is like that. The whole thing comes off as delusional MAGA projection.

There are reasonable republicans who don't do that stuff. Unfortunately, they allow the magahats to be their voice. That's how they are post-truth. The reasonable republicans aren't willing to openly disagree with the magahat wing of their party. Even when they know it to be lies.

I'm still waiting for a republican to explain whether they believe Biden allows open borders.

+1 Words actually have meanings. To me, open borders means no walls or gates, nobody being stopped as they enter, no cargo being inspected and so on, everyone immediately granted citizenship and so on.

And I also want to know why reasonable Republicans still let the climate change deniers, the anti-vaxxers and others speak for them despite the science not being on their side.

[Anonymous]

It's a lack of critical thinking and questioning that allows people to be misled. For example "vaccines cause myocarditis!" - science says the reality is that covid itself is significantly more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccines are. Or, "windmills kill birds" - when the reality is that vastly more birds get killed by being caught by cats, by crashing into buildings, and other things, including fossil fuel industry and climate change than by windmills. For some reason, because a REPUBLICAN said it, they believe it, over what the science actually says about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

Whoah whoah whoah you are really far off the deep end here, into the realm of irrational.

What here are we supposedly "slavishly believing, just because a Democrat said it?" I believe that masks work. Not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I believe the vaccines work, not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I could care less what a Democrat (or Republican) says about the pandemic, unless they happen to be an expert in vaccines, respiratory disease, epidemiology or other relevant fields

What "power" have I gained in the Democratic party? I am not a Democratic official, I am just a regular citizen. One who in fact was for over 2 decades a registered Republican. And you are "disturbed" by "my power" in the party. Really bizarre comment.

And where do you get off claiming I am "wholly unable to question" the party? You don't know me. You don't know a damn thing about me. I do in fact question the party. While I welcome and value immigration, I do think we need to do more to secure the border and to fix our broken system. You could ask Charles Allen about the people who have been hounding him to improve the crime situation in DC. I'm one of them. Please stop making completely unfounded, over-the-top comments presuming I'm some brainless follower proclaiming the sky to be neon pink when you are dead wrong. Again, how utterly bizarre of you.

For someone who's touting being an independent, critical thinker you appear to be nothing of the sort. You have convinced yourself based on a complete lack of understanding and complete misunderstanding of people around you. You have convinced yourself with everything BUT facts and rationality.

Well said. We aren't blind cultish followers. We don't go everywhere wearing Biden hats, we don't have our lawns filled with Biden flags, we don't turn a blind eye if a Democrat is caught in a crime or corruption scandal, we don't flock to Biden rallies as if it were a revivalist preacher's tent, we don't blindly repeat everything Biden says as if it were gospel, let alone "neon pink skies" - the pp claiming all of this comes across as completely unhinged and leaves me wondering whether they actually do in fact personally know any actual Democrats because there's not a single person in my circle of Democrats who is like that. The whole thing comes off as delusional MAGA projection.

There are reasonable republicans who don't do that stuff. Unfortunately, they allow the magahats to be their voice. That's how they are post-truth. The reasonable republicans aren't willing to openly disagree with the magahat wing of their party. Even when they know it to be lies.

I'm still waiting for a republican to explain whether they believe Biden allows open borders.

+1 Words actually have meanings. To me, open borders means no walls or gates, nobody being stopped as they enter, no cargo being inspected and so on, everyone immediately granted citizenship and so on.

And I also want to know why reasonable Republicans still let the climate change deniers, the anti-vaxxers and others speak for them despite the science not being on their side.

I agree with you on vax, but climate change debates are much more complicated than whether or not it's happening. There's also the question of the cost of dealing with it and whether we can get people, even liberals, to change their behavior. My AC has already been on this season, for example.

[Anonymous]

Now are there anti-math democrats, because they don't believe that endless money creation devalues the dollar and causes inflation?

Does money really grow on trees?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though.

Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

DP... for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror. For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause. And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality. You've proven that to us, repeatedly.

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it.

Whoah whoah whoah you are really far off the deep end here, into the realm of irrational.

What here are we supposedly "slavishly believing, just because a Democrat said it?" I believe that masks work. Not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I believe the vaccines work, not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works. I could care less what a Democrat (or Republican) says about the pandemic, unless they happen to be an expert in vaccines, respiratory disease, epidemiology or other relevant fields

What "power" have I gained in the Democratic party? I am not a Democratic official, I am just a regular citizen. One who in fact was for over 2 decades a registered Republican. And you are "disturbed" by "my power" in the party. Really bizarre comment.

And where do you get off claiming I am "wholly unable to question" the party? You don't know me. You don't know a damn thing about me. I do in fact question the party. While I welcome and value immigration, I do think we need to do more to secure the border and to fix our broken system. You could ask Charles Allen about the people who have been hounding him to improve the crime situation in DC. I'm one of them. Please stop making completely unfounded, over-the-top comments presuming I'm some brainless follower proclaiming the sky to be neon pink when you are dead wrong. Again, how utterly bizarre of you.

For someone who's touting being an independent, critical thinker you appear to be nothing of the sort. You have convinced yourself based on a complete lack of understanding and complete misunderstanding of people around you. You have convinced yourself with everything BUT facts and rationality.

Well said. We aren't blind cultish followers. We don't go everywhere wearing Biden hats, we don't have our lawns filled with Biden flags, we don't turn a blind eye if a Democrat is caught in a crime or corruption scandal, we don't flock to Biden rallies as if it were a revivalist preacher's tent, we don't blindly repeat everything Biden says as if it were gospel, let alone "neon pink skies" - the pp claiming all of this comes across as completely unhinged and leaves me wondering whether they actually do in fact personally know any actual Democrats because there's not a single person in my circle of Democrats who is like that. The whole thing comes off as delusional MAGA projection.

There are reasonable republicans who don't do that stuff. Unfortunately, they allow the magahats to be their voice. That's how they are post-truth. The reasonable republicans aren't willing to openly disagree with the magahat wing of their party. Even when they know it to be lies.

I'm still waiting for a republican to explain whether they believe Biden allows open borders.

+1 Words actually have meanings. To me, open borders means no walls or gates, nobody being stopped as they enter, no cargo being inspected and so on, everyone immediately granted citizenship and so on.

And I also want to know why reasonable Republicans still let the climate change deniers, the anti-vaxxers and others speak for them despite the science not being on their side.

I agree with you on vax, but climate change debates are much more complicated than whether or not it's happening. There's also the question of the cost of dealing with it and whether we can get people, even liberals, to change their behavior. My AC has already been on this season, for example.

The cost question is an macroeconomics question, not a science question - I've seen a number of studies and papers showing that regardless of how much industry and officials complain about the cost, the cost of not dealing with it is significantly greater than the cost of dealing with it. https://www.nber.org/papers/w32450

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now are there anti-math democrats, because they don't believe that endless money creation devalues the dollar and causes inflation?

Does money really grow on trees?

Who in this thread posted anything about "endless money creation?" Nobody that I've seen. I guess the strategy is that when you don't actually have an argument, you fabricate a strawman of your own.

Democrats do not support endless money creation for the sake of endless money creation.

But they do support expansionary monetary policy as needed to keep up with other real-world expansionary factors such as growing GDP, population growth, increase in the numbers of businesses and industries, need for critical infrastructure, and so on.

If you had been paying attention, you would have seen that the Biden administration and Federal Reserve have been coordinating to try and drive pandemic-related inflation back down and as a result, our inflation rates are now lower than those of most other countries. Biden administration drove inflation down from 9.1% at the tail end of the pandemic to 3.4% as of the latest report, lower than most other countries and the lowest of any G7 nations. Meanwhile you may have forgotten that it was the Trump administration that pumped the economy full of inflation-driving "stimmy checks" which were phased out by Biden. You may have also forgotten that it was the Trump administration that threw money around with the fraud-riddled PPP loans, which were significantly reformed by Biden to rein in the rampant fraud.

So, not only is it a strawman, it's a fail in every other way. And don't even bother coming back at us with a lame retort like "man you didn't even understand the question and you're dim"

[Anonymous]

It’s funny cause I was reading an article today in WaPo that asserted the data showed X but actually no, it is Y, because of some people’s personal opinions and beliefs. I think whether we’re in a post truth majority depends on what actual information you prefer to accept as truth. And what you prefer to ignore. This is a problem of people from all stripes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny cause I was reading an article today in WaPo that asserted the data showed X but actually no, it is Y, because of some people’s personal opinions and beliefs. I think whether we’re in a post truth majority depends on what actual information you prefer to accept as truth. And what you prefer to ignore. This is a problem of people from all stripes.

Are you referring to the recent article that showed that a large percentage of Americans believe we are in a recession (because Republicans have suggested we are) despite the actual data showing that we are not? I think a lot of people lack the basic literacy or curiosity to actually look at the data as opposed to just believing whatever their "trusted" but wrong sources are telling them. That's the whole problem - opinion versus facts. For some Americans those lines have become completely blurred. Same with how a large percentage of Republicans believe the election was "rigged" and "stolen" from Trump and that there was "massive fraud" despite the Trumpian claims repeatedly being debunked and despite all of the numerous investigations and trials and hearings repeatedly failing to prove this, and showing instead that Trump simply lost the election. They want to believe Trump because they trust him - even though he's wrong, while ignoring and refusing to accept the mountains of evidence showing he's wrong. Perfect examples of the post-truth era we are living in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now are there anti-math democrats, because they don't believe that endless money creation devalues the dollar and causes inflation?

Does money really grow on trees?

Right wing rule #12: "When you lose the debate on one subject like science, divert attention by trying to shift the debate to some other subject like economics!"
(and proceed to immediately lose on that one, too :lol
Truly hilarious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a lack of critical thinking and questioning that allows people to be misled. For example "vaccines cause myocarditis!" - science says the reality is that covid itself is significantly more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccines are. Or, "windmills kill birds" - when the reality is that vastly more birds get killed by being caught by cats, by crashing into buildings, and other things, including fossil fuel industry and climate change than by windmills. For some reason, because a REPUBLICAN said it, they believe it, over what the science actually says about it.

Like any rational Democrat, I will double mask and never leave my basement. So, I don't need to get myocarditis from COVID or the vaccine.