Reply to Is there a "post-truth" majority in the US?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]We've had 15 pages of republicans berating democrats for believing things about covid that have been proven to be wrong in hindsight.

Now I'd like a republican to address why they keep saying Biden has open borders even though he expelled a record number of migrants in 2022 while he had title 42 available. And continues high numbers of returns and removals without title 42. I get that many of you would like more, but that's not open borders. Are you post-truth on that?[/quote]

Both can be true. Biden’s policies can be accurately described as open border while he also simultaneously expels record number of migrants (because record numbers are coming due to those policies).

I’m not a Republican, though. [/quote]Love the irony! But no it can't.

You've really distilled post-truth to it's core with this nonsense disguised as paradox. Kudos on contributing to the downfall of society.[/quote]

Sometimes I wish I could be as simple-minded as you and the other PPs who believe that the Democrats are always on the side of truth and science and right. It would certainly be easier to go through life believing anything my side said was unquestionably always true and right, just because they said it. Never having to entertain a critical thought, never questioning leaders, just always trusting: it is appealing in a way. I’m a little jealous of the simplicity that must bring to your life.

[i]But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.[/i][/quote]

DP...  for simple mindedness, take a long hard look in the mirror.  For not one single one of your flaky MAGA talking points about masks and the pandemic has even held up to even the lightest of scrutiny on this forum, along with lacking sufficient evidence to support your cause.  And then you have the audacity to feign righteousness and invoke Orwell when the reality is that it's you who is mired in self-delusion and toxic propaganda, lacking a solid footing on facts and reality.  You've proven that to us, repeatedly.[/quote]

I have never voted for Trump and will never vote for Trump. I’m a registered Democrat, just not one that slavishly believes every single thing the Democrats say simply because a Democrat said it. It has been very disturbing to me to watch people like you gain power in the Democratic Party, people who are wholly unable to question anything said by their leaders, who lash out at any science that contradicts the mandated beliefs of the Party. If Biden’s campaign manager told you that you needed to believe that the sky is now neon pink, you’d immediately stand outside and talk about how pretty the neon pink sky is, and how everyone believes the sky is neon pink, and the science shows the sky is neon pink. You’d criticize anyone who talked about how the sky is not neon pink, you’d dismiss any evidence contrary to your new belief, because the Democratic Party told you the sky is neon pink and now you believe that.

I used to believe that the Democrats were the party of science, but people like you, with your party-over-science at all costs ethos, have convinced me otherwise. You are as bad as the MAGA. You can’t think critically, you will never, ever question what you are told, you will never once ask a hard question. You will simply believe everything, because a Democrat said it. [/quote]

Whoah whoah whoah you are really far off the deep end here, into the realm of irrational.

What here are we supposedly "slavishly believing, just because a Democrat said it?"  I believe that masks work.  Not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works.  I believe the vaccines work, not because a Democrat said it, but because the science says it works.  I could care less what a Democrat (or Republican) says about the pandemic, unless they happen to be an expert in vaccines, respiratory disease, epidemiology or other relevant fields

What "power" have I gained in the Democratic party?  I am not a Democratic official, I am just a regular citizen.  One who in fact was for over 2 decades a registered Republican.  And you are "disturbed" by "my power" in the party.  Really bizarre comment.

And where do you get off claiming I am "wholly unable to question" the party?  You don't know me.  You don't know a damn thing about me.  I do in fact question the party.  While I welcome and value immigration, I do think we need to do more to secure the border and to fix our broken system.  You could ask Charles Allen about the people who have been hounding him to improve the crime situation in DC.  I'm one of them.  Please stop making completely unfounded, over-the-top comments presuming I'm some brainless follower proclaiming the sky to be neon pink when you are dead wrong.  Again, how utterly bizarre of you.

For someone who's touting being an independent, critical thinker you appear to be nothing of the sort.  You have convinced yourself based on a complete lack of understanding and complete misunderstanding of people around you.  You have convinced yourself with everything BUT facts and rationality.  [/quote]

Well said.  We aren't blind cultish followers.  We don't go everywhere wearing Biden hats, we don't have our lawns filled with Biden flags, we don't turn a blind eye if a Democrat is caught in a crime or corruption scandal, we don't flock to Biden rallies as if it were a revivalist preacher's tent, we don't blindly repeat everything Biden says as if it were gospel, let alone "neon pink skies" - the pp claiming all of this comes across as completely unhinged and leaves me wondering whether they actually do in fact personally know any actual Democrats because there's not a single person in my circle of Democrats who is like that.  The whole thing comes off as delusional MAGA projection.[/quote]There are reasonable republicans who don't do that stuff. Unfortunately, they allow the magahats to be their voice. That's how they are post-truth. The reasonable republicans aren't willing to openly disagree with the magahat wing of their party. Even when they know it to be lies.

I'm still waiting for a republican to explain whether they believe Biden allows open borders.[/quote]

+1  Words actually have meanings.  To me, open borders means no walls or gates, nobody being stopped as they enter, no cargo being inspected and so on, everyone immediately granted citizenship and so on.

And I also want to know why reasonable Republicans still let the climate change deniers, the anti-vaxxers and others speak for them despite the science not being on their side.  [/quote]I agree with you on vax, but climate change debates are much more complicated than whether or not it's happening. There's also the question of the cost of dealing with it and whether we can get people, even liberals, to change their behavior. My AC has already been on this season, for example.[/quote]

The cost question is an macroeconomics question, not a science question - I've seen a number of studies and papers showing that regardless of how much industry and officials complain about the cost, the cost of not dealing with it is significantly greater than the cost of dealing with it.  https://www.nber.org/papers/w32450[/quote]

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