Leaving a narcissist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

90% of time neglect and ignore kids, then explode
Push and pull dynamic with them.
Kids are starved for attention so then become pawns.
He’d buy them whatever they wanted, dole out screens, candy, cake if he was “with it.”
Never parenting, no discipline
Parentified the children - they’d have to clean up after him. He’d have them make all parenting decisions. Decide what to do.

Can add this to my list too - he even wrote in his court materials how daughter was a "good girl" because she "even makes him his coffee" and cleans up the kitchen wiping down the counters and remembering what groceries they need. He also wrote about taking them to an activity he knew she didn’t like, "but that she pretended to like it to make [him] happy and show an interest in something he liked, she is such a good girl". She was 9.

He also praised "maturity" to serve his interests and compliments were more like orders "I'm so proud of you, you always take care of your little brother" making her the mother/responsible parent.

That’s gross.

Family courts in America really go for this? Poor kids. They have no rights.

What’s gross is people having children with someone they should not and then complaining about it later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

No it is not "normal for a dad"

You are not being overly dramatic, it is abuse.

OP, I have worked in many battered women's homes. It only gets worse, even if he never laid a hand on you or your kids.. Emotional abuse is definitely a thing.

While you are thinking about leaving do these two things.
1. Make copies of all your financial records. Hide them in a safe spot. People used to use safety deposit boxes if not available, rent a locker somewhere.
2. Get a bunch of Visa cards at the Grocery store, CVS, target, Walmart, even Lowes or Home Depot sells them. Like $25 or $50 ones and hide them as well.

This way if you have to leave in a hurry you have money and information for your lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did. But I warn you abuse often escalates after leaving as it did in my case. Coparenting with someone with NPD is awful. Sometimes I feel I traded one prison for another.

Sadly this is well said. I see you and feel you, OP. I’m on year eight of post separation abuse and he’s still filing motions- even knowing that the motions wouldn’t go to court while the kids are still minors.
Its exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

90% of time neglect and ignore kids, then explode
Push and pull dynamic with them.
Kids are starved for attention so then become pawns.
He’d buy them whatever they wanted, dole out screens, candy, cake if he was “with it.”
Never parenting, no discipline
Parentified the children - they’d have to clean up after him. He’d have them make all parenting decisions. Decide what to do.

Can add this to my list too - he even wrote in his court materials how daughter was a "good girl" because she "even makes him his coffee" and cleans up the kitchen wiping down the counters and remembering what groceries they need. He also wrote about taking them to an activity he knew she didn’t like, "but that she pretended to like it to make [him] happy and show an interest in something he liked, she is such a good girl". She was 9.

He also praised "maturity" to serve his interests and compliments were more like orders "I'm so proud of you, you always take care of your little brother" making her the mother/responsible parent.

That’s gross.

Family courts in America really go for this? Poor kids. They have no rights.

What’s gross is people having children with someone they should not and then complaining about it later.

Lucky for you 40% of children have a “father” who never showed up at all, even for child support. He just hit and forget it. Skipped town. Had many children with many women. Skipped town.

So what’s left is the other 60% of childrens fathers who aren’t in jail or running off but aren’t doing so hot as fathers or life partners either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

90% of time neglect and ignore kids, then explode
Push and pull dynamic with them.
Kids are starved for attention so then become pawns.
He’d buy them whatever they wanted, dole out screens, candy, cake if he was “with it.”
Never parenting, no discipline
Parentified the children - they’d have to clean up after him. He’d have them make all parenting decisions. Decide what to do.

Can add this to my list too - he even wrote in his court materials how daughter was a "good girl" because she "even makes him his coffee" and cleans up the kitchen wiping down the counters and remembering what groceries they need. He also wrote about taking them to an activity he knew she didn’t like, "but that she pretended to like it to make [him] happy and show an interest in something he liked, she is such a good girl". She was 9.

He also praised "maturity" to serve his interests and compliments were more like orders "I'm so proud of you, you always take care of your little brother" making her the mother/responsible parent.

That’s gross.

Family courts in America really go for this? Poor kids. They have no rights.

True.
Delinquent father’s rights >>>> child’s rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

90% of time neglect and ignore kids, then explode
Push and pull dynamic with them.
Kids are starved for attention so then become pawns.
He’d buy them whatever they wanted, dole out screens, candy, cake if he was “with it.”
Never parenting, no discipline
Parentified the children - they’d have to clean up after him. He’d have them make all parenting decisions. Decide what to do.

Can add this to my list too - he even wrote in his court materials how daughter was a "good girl" because she "even makes him his coffee" and cleans up the kitchen wiping down the counters and remembering what groceries they need. He also wrote about taking them to an activity he knew she didn’t like, "but that she pretended to like it to make [him] happy and show an interest in something he liked, she is such a good girl". She was 9.

He also praised "maturity" to serve his interests and compliments were more like orders "I'm so proud of you, you always take care of your little brother" making her the mother/responsible parent.

That’s gross.

Family courts in America really go for this? Poor kids. They have no rights.

Kids do not have rights. NP. Going through divorce now and in an emotional moment I asked my attorney “don’t my kids have any rights?”. And he replied, “technically, under the constitution, no.”

It was a devastating but sobering moment. And it stopped me from having further delusions about what family court could and could not do for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any examples of men leaving their wives who have BPD? I know a friend who is with a wife who is a narcissist with a wicked temper and bullies people. The world revolves around her.

My brother is going through this right now and it's a nightmare. Their youngest child is five so it will be a long road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did. But I warn you abuse often escalates after leaving as it did in my case. Coparenting with someone with NPD is awful. Sometimes I feel I traded one prison for another.

Np. This!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He filed for divorce when he found a better narcissistic supply. And then went to war against me. It has been relentless and insane and expensive. Everyone in my life who says "but that doesn't make sense....why is he behaving like this if he's supposedly in love with someone else?"....doesn't understand clinical NPD. My STBX is doing whatever TF he can to try to control me. It really doesn't matter who files first - leaving a narcissistic relationship is incredibly challenging even if they are the ones who want it.

Someone on this board recommended the book Splitting which was incredibly helpful. It gave me a clear picture of how my divorce has played out and is still playing out. The only surprise is no surprise. He has alienated the adult kids from me, which is also text book.

With tons of therapy I have 1. looked at what it was in me that chose to be with someone like him (raised by a narcissist - I can see now that my ex is an insanely extreme version of my parent. I was primed to be comfortable with that kind of uncomfortable behavior - it was familiar and I learned how to manage it as a child....) 2. I have a playbook for his behavior and it's literally all in this book so nothing surprises me (believe me I still get plenty angry but I've done a lot of work on acknowledging the anger and letting go). 3. I have made peace with the parental alienation - it's not a winnable battle. Eventually they will probably realize what happened. For now I keep lines of communication open, still send cards and gifts, and focus on staying strong to get through this.

My ex wants to try to destroy me. I know it's Mel Robbins-ish and she's polarizing (but I love her) and I say "let him try. he won't."

I miss having my kids in my life but I can't control that. My life away from my ex is still 100000000 times better.

Educate yourself on what you will be up against and don't expect him to change or be reasonable in any way shape or form. That's more powerful than you can imagine because your ex still believes the narrative that you are not aware of how you were manipulated and controlled. Use it to your advantage. GOOD LUCK! There is light at the end of the tunnel.

I’m so sorry. Sending you a hug

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone leave a narcissist/BPD/ someone with anger issues and even though it was hard and you loved them and had kids with them, you are better off now?
My marriage just isn’t getting any better and my DH isn’t willing to do any work on himself or us to help it. I feel like I deserve better. He is a man with a lot of past trauma and while I feel for that; I can’t be his punching bag anymore.

You sure it isn't you?

Most of the time, the person running away from the marriage is the damaged one who needs work and a reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone leave a narcissist/BPD/ someone with anger issues and even though it was hard and you loved them and had kids with them, you are better off now?
My marriage just isn’t getting any better and my DH isn’t willing to do any work on himself or us to help it. I feel like I deserve better. He is a man with a lot of past trauma and while I feel for that; I can’t be his punching bag anymore.

You sure it isn't you?

Most of the time, the person running away from the marriage is the damaged one who needs work and a reality check.

You sound like an abusive narcissist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone leave a narcissist/BPD/ someone with anger issues and even though it was hard and you loved them and had kids with them, you are better off now?
My marriage just isn’t getting any better and my DH isn’t willing to do any work on himself or us to help it. I feel like I deserve better. He is a man with a lot of past trauma and while I feel for that; I can’t be his punching bag anymore.

You sure it isn't you?

Most of the time, the person running away from the marriage is the damaged one who needs work and a reality check.

You sound like an abusive narcissist.

Does that make you a victim enabler?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

I posted at 8:57. My therapist was very helpful about this. Anger and yelling yes, but more than that. Shaming and unnatural consequences. Unpredictability - she said that everyone gets mad at their kids, but what i am mad about it predictable. When they do x, my kids know that will make me mad, and when I get mad, my kids know what will happen.

With their dad, there was no predictably. The reactions were mood and need to abuse based and could be nothing or severe and terrifying anger. He would look at them in ways designed to intimidate them.

Other things he did common to npd abusers:
- interfered with my relationship with the kids by trying to destroy the bond we had, if I was with them coming into the room arms glaring, constant criticism of my mothering
- threatened kids with instability (he'll quit his job if they don't do x)
- severe punishment
- ridiculing them and laughing at them for things like misusing a word
- interference with the development of their own unique value system
- age inappropriate disclosure
- neglect of parenting responsibility (would take them to the park but not feed them regular meals, only feeding foods that made it really hard for them to regulate their emotions)
- destroying the sibling relationship (he always had to be in the center, they couldn't choose to play just with each other), pitting them against each other
- denying that the kids needed supports (son needed ed psych and ex refused)
- was happy and gleeful about unusual things like kids "learning their lesson" losing a valuable item
- unusual religious practices
- dangerous driving with them in the vehicle "because he's mad and blowing off steam"
- more but thats what comes to mind right now

Understand that abusers adjust what they do to abuse on a person by person basis.

I am so sorry for you and your kids. He sounds psychotic.

[Anonymous]

Do the types of things listed here make any difference in court as it relates to custody? Has anyone made a successful argument? Or used them as leverage in mediation perhaps?

I am in a similar situation and my lawyer has advised that barring physical abuse or significant neglect, custody will likely still be split 50-50.

[Anonymous]

PP Even as it relates to physical abuse, I was told it needs to be severe, not shoving or grabbing, for it to make any difference.