Leaving a narcissist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

90% of time neglect and ignore kids, then explode
Push and pull dynamic with them.
Kids are starved for attention so then become pawns.
He’d buy them whatever they wanted, dole out screens, candy, cake if he was “with it.”
Never parenting, no discipline
Parentified the children - they’d have to clean up after him. He’d have them make all parenting decisions. Decide what to do.

Can add this to my list too - he even wrote in his court materials how daughter was a "good girl" because she "even makes him his coffee" and cleans up the kitchen wiping down the counters and remembering what groceries they need. He also wrote about taking them to an activity he knew she didn’t like, "but that she pretended to like it to make [him] happy and show an interest in something he liked, she is such a good girl". She was 9.

He also praised "maturity" to serve his interests and compliments were more like orders "I'm so proud of you, you always take care of your little brother" making her the mother/responsible parent.

That’s gross.

Family courts in America really go for this? Poor kids. They have no rights.

Kids do not have rights. NP. Going through divorce now and in an emotional moment I asked my attorney “don’t my kids have any rights?”. And he replied, “technically, under the constitution, no.”

It was a devastating but sobering moment. And it stopped me from having further delusions about what family court could and could not do for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any examples of men leaving their wives who have BPD? I know a friend who is with a wife who is a narcissist with a wicked temper and bullies people. The world revolves around her.

My brother is going through this right now and it's a nightmare. Their youngest child is five so it will be a long road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did. But I warn you abuse often escalates after leaving as it did in my case. Coparenting with someone with NPD is awful. Sometimes I feel I traded one prison for another.

Np. This!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He filed for divorce when he found a better narcissistic supply. And then went to war against me. It has been relentless and insane and expensive. Everyone in my life who says "but that doesn't make sense....why is he behaving like this if he's supposedly in love with someone else?"....doesn't understand clinical NPD. My STBX is doing whatever TF he can to try to control me. It really doesn't matter who files first - leaving a narcissistic relationship is incredibly challenging even if they are the ones who want it.

Someone on this board recommended the book Splitting which was incredibly helpful. It gave me a clear picture of how my divorce has played out and is still playing out. The only surprise is no surprise. He has alienated the adult kids from me, which is also text book.

With tons of therapy I have 1. looked at what it was in me that chose to be with someone like him (raised by a narcissist - I can see now that my ex is an insanely extreme version of my parent. I was primed to be comfortable with that kind of uncomfortable behavior - it was familiar and I learned how to manage it as a child....) 2. I have a playbook for his behavior and it's literally all in this book so nothing surprises me (believe me I still get plenty angry but I've done a lot of work on acknowledging the anger and letting go). 3. I have made peace with the parental alienation - it's not a winnable battle. Eventually they will probably realize what happened. For now I keep lines of communication open, still send cards and gifts, and focus on staying strong to get through this.

My ex wants to try to destroy me. I know it's Mel Robbins-ish and she's polarizing (but I love her) and I say "let him try. he won't."

I miss having my kids in my life but I can't control that. My life away from my ex is still 100000000 times better.

Educate yourself on what you will be up against and don't expect him to change or be reasonable in any way shape or form. That's more powerful than you can imagine because your ex still believes the narrative that you are not aware of how you were manipulated and controlled. Use it to your advantage. GOOD LUCK! There is light at the end of the tunnel.

I’m so sorry. Sending you a hug

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone leave a narcissist/BPD/ someone with anger issues and even though it was hard and you loved them and had kids with them, you are better off now?
My marriage just isn’t getting any better and my DH isn’t willing to do any work on himself or us to help it. I feel like I deserve better. He is a man with a lot of past trauma and while I feel for that; I can’t be his punching bag anymore.

You sure it isn't you?

Most of the time, the person running away from the marriage is the damaged one who needs work and a reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone leave a narcissist/BPD/ someone with anger issues and even though it was hard and you loved them and had kids with them, you are better off now?
My marriage just isn’t getting any better and my DH isn’t willing to do any work on himself or us to help it. I feel like I deserve better. He is a man with a lot of past trauma and while I feel for that; I can’t be his punching bag anymore.

You sure it isn't you?

Most of the time, the person running away from the marriage is the damaged one who needs work and a reality check.

You sound like an abusive narcissist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone leave a narcissist/BPD/ someone with anger issues and even though it was hard and you loved them and had kids with them, you are better off now?
My marriage just isn’t getting any better and my DH isn’t willing to do any work on himself or us to help it. I feel like I deserve better. He is a man with a lot of past trauma and while I feel for that; I can’t be his punching bag anymore.

You sure it isn't you?

Most of the time, the person running away from the marriage is the damaged one who needs work and a reality check.

You sound like an abusive narcissist.

Does that make you a victim enabler?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - can anyone talk about what is abuse to kids? Is just anger and yelling abuse or is that normal for a DH/dad? I feel like I have normalized things over the past many many years so I am unsure if I’m being dramatic or if it’s abuse.

I posted at 8:57. My therapist was very helpful about this. Anger and yelling yes, but more than that. Shaming and unnatural consequences. Unpredictability - she said that everyone gets mad at their kids, but what i am mad about it predictable. When they do x, my kids know that will make me mad, and when I get mad, my kids know what will happen.

With their dad, there was no predictably. The reactions were mood and need to abuse based and could be nothing or severe and terrifying anger. He would look at them in ways designed to intimidate them.

Other things he did common to npd abusers:
- interfered with my relationship with the kids by trying to destroy the bond we had, if I was with them coming into the room arms glaring, constant criticism of my mothering
- threatened kids with instability (he'll quit his job if they don't do x)
- severe punishment
- ridiculing them and laughing at them for things like misusing a word
- interference with the development of their own unique value system
- age inappropriate disclosure
- neglect of parenting responsibility (would take them to the park but not feed them regular meals, only feeding foods that made it really hard for them to regulate their emotions)
- destroying the sibling relationship (he always had to be in the center, they couldn't choose to play just with each other), pitting them against each other
- denying that the kids needed supports (son needed ed psych and ex refused)
- was happy and gleeful about unusual things like kids "learning their lesson" losing a valuable item
- unusual religious practices
- dangerous driving with them in the vehicle "because he's mad and blowing off steam"
- more but thats what comes to mind right now

Understand that abusers adjust what they do to abuse on a person by person basis.

I am so sorry for you and your kids. He sounds psychotic.

[Anonymous]

Do the types of things listed here make any difference in court as it relates to custody? Has anyone made a successful argument? Or used them as leverage in mediation perhaps?

I am in a similar situation and my lawyer has advised that barring physical abuse or significant neglect, custody will likely still be split 50-50.

[Anonymous]

PP Even as it relates to physical abuse, I was told it needs to be severe, not shoving or grabbing, for it to make any difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP Even as it relates to physical abuse, I was told it needs to be severe, not shoving or grabbing, for it to make any difference.

NP and my attorney (not DMV) shared that even in the case of a someone he represented who beat his wide in front of their children, he eventually got 50/50 because they went to court and the judge said that he didn’t beat the children so it was ok.

The only hope is to do a parenting evaluation, and pay for it out of pocket with a private evaluator, not a state provided one. My narcissist got his attorney to do one because he is hoping it will make me look bad. He isn’t yet aware that it will include extensive mental health testing for him. At most that will buy us a graduated custody plan and maybe 6-12 months of therapy and medical intervention for him (he has other things going for which he is not compliant with treatment which could also endanger the kids).

My final hope is that this drags out for so long that he loses interest in whatever he’s trying to prove and doesn’t ultimately want 50/50, or it goes long enough that my youngest is the age when our state begins to consider kids’ input.

[Anonymous]

PS from PP above: get everyone in therapy if they aren’t. Kids really need help but you also need records of the impact he’s had on them, whether you leave in a month, 6 months, two years, etc. Mine youngest does not go weekly so extracurriculars are not too impacted and they were reluctant, but has says it makes a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP Even as it relates to physical abuse, I was told it needs to be severe, not shoving or grabbing, for it to make any difference.

NP and my attorney (not DMV) shared that even in the case of a someone he represented who beat his wide in front of their children, he eventually got 50/50 because they went to court and the judge said that he didn’t beat the children so it was ok.

The only hope is to do a parenting evaluation, and pay for it out of pocket with a private evaluator, not a state provided one. My narcissist got his attorney to do one because he is hoping it will make me look bad. He isn’t yet aware that it will include extensive mental health testing for him. At most that will buy us a graduated custody plan and maybe 6-12 months of therapy and medical intervention for him (he has other things going for which he is not compliant with treatment which could also endanger the kids).

My final hope is that this drags out for so long that he loses interest in whatever he’s trying to prove and doesn’t ultimately want 50/50, or it goes long enough that my youngest is the age when our state begins to consider kids’ input.

These parenting evaluations- called custody evaluations or ‘forensics’ usually end up being extremely disappointing to the normal parent and often backfire. These psychologists fleece people, and often write sloppy reports that are extremely hard to challenge. These evaluations are not recommended by pro child groups, and they can end up costing tens of thousands of dollars, and extend the litigation so more legal fees are paid too. Please do not recommend these to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP Even as it relates to physical abuse, I was told it needs to be severe, not shoving or grabbing, for it to make any difference.

NP and my attorney (not DMV) shared that even in the case of a someone he represented who beat his wide in front of their children, he eventually got 50/50 because they went to court and the judge said that he didn’t beat the children so it was ok.

The only hope is to do a parenting evaluation, and pay for it out of pocket with a private evaluator, not a state provided one. My narcissist got his attorney to do one because he is hoping it will make me look bad. He isn’t yet aware that it will include extensive mental health testing for him. At most that will buy us a graduated custody plan and maybe 6-12 months of therapy and medical intervention for him (he has other things going for which he is not compliant with treatment which could also endanger the kids).

My final hope is that this drags out for so long that he loses interest in whatever he’s trying to prove and doesn’t ultimately want 50/50, or it goes long enough that my youngest is the age when our state begins to consider kids’ input.

These parenting evaluations- called custody evaluations or ‘forensics’ usually end up being extremely disappointing to the normal parent and often backfire. These psychologists fleece people, and often write sloppy reports that are extremely hard to challenge. These evaluations are not recommended by pro child groups, and they can end up costing tens of thousands of dollars, and extend the litigation so more legal fees are paid too. Please do not recommend these to others.

I’m the one who brought up parenting evaluations. In my case, my attorney and I selected the parenting evaluator and my STBX paid for it. This is not typical. His attorney suggested evaluators know for things such as favoring the more wealthy parent, favoring men, doing haphazard reports, etc. I knew going into the divorce that I would need an attorney well-versed in this process, my focus during my initial consults before hiring someone was to choose an attorney who really knew our local landscape of evaluators and (should it go to court) how judges respond to them. STBX has other diagnosed mental illnesses that he treats haphazardly, which may influence why he agreed to pay for the evaluation- he 100% hopes it will show me in a bad light.

If you don’t have an attorney who does this every week, the advice I’m replying to is very good and you do need to proceed with extreme caution. But if you have a choice between electing to hire a parenting evaluator vs taking the chance that your narcissist spouse will push a GAL or force an evaluator to be appointed by court, then you really need to be proactive and find an attorney who knows this process.

Once you’re in a divorce with someone like this, advice about what you avoid kind of goes out the window and it becomes more about making the best of truly horrible options. I cry or yell every day (when home alone) because it’s a hellscape.

I would have stayed in my marriage if I’d had the choice because it would have been an easier way to protect my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP Even as it relates to physical abuse, I was told it needs to be severe, not shoving or grabbing, for it to make any difference.

NP and my attorney (not DMV) shared that even in the case of a someone he represented who beat his wide in front of their children, he eventually got 50/50 because they went to court and the judge said that he didn’t beat the children so it was ok.

The only hope is to do a parenting evaluation, and pay for it out of pocket with a private evaluator, not a state provided one. My narcissist got his attorney to do one because he is hoping it will make me look bad. He isn’t yet aware that it will include extensive mental health testing for him. At most that will buy us a graduated custody plan and maybe 6-12 months of therapy and medical intervention for him (he has other things going for which he is not compliant with treatment which could also endanger the kids).

My final hope is that this drags out for so long that he loses interest in whatever he’s trying to prove and doesn’t ultimately want 50/50, or it goes long enough that my youngest is the age when our state begins to consider kids’ input.

My lawyer also told me that there is enough there that I could request a parental evaluation. BUT my question is - will these people not fudge the answers? As in, my husband has severe anger management problems where he has pushed and shoved both me and our two children, thrown things, etc, but if asked by a psychologist - do you ever take out your anger on others? He would just answer “no, the most I do is raise my voice or take space in a different room”. So are these evaluations valuable when the one who is evaluated knows exactly what the right answer is to the questions they will be asked?