Remind me why we hate Jon Gosselin?

[Anonymous]

Simple - don't have fertility treatments if you refuse selective reduction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

It's unethical not to selectively reduce higher-order multiples. People really need to think this through before undergoing procedures that create the risk.

I couldn't do it. I also understand why an infertile woman would do everything in her power to get pregnant again w/o assuming that she would get pregnant with, and carry to term, 6 babies. That isn't something you just anticipate doing. Apparently she was initially pregnant with 7 and one of the babies died in utero...I think a spontaneous reduction is more in line with what she thought would happen. I personally could not decide to do away with baby A, C and E in order to give B, D and F a better shot of surviving. I couldn't do it.

If you couldn't do it, then don't do fertility treatments that pose the risk of higher-order multiples. It's unethical to take actions that will result in harmed children. And even if the children are healthy, the stress of raising so many babies at once is not justifiable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

It's unethical not to selectively reduce higher-order multiples. People really need to think this through before undergoing procedures that create the risk.

I couldn't do it. I also understand why an infertile woman would do everything in her power to get pregnant again w/o assuming that she would get pregnant with, and carry to term, 6 babies. That isn't something you just anticipate doing. Apparently she was initially pregnant with 7 and one of the babies died in utero...I think a spontaneous reduction is more in line with what she thought would happen. I personally could not decide to do away with baby A, C and E in order to give B, D and F a better shot of surviving. I couldn't do it.

If you couldn't do it, then don't do fertility treatments that pose the risk of higher-order multiples. It's unethical to take actions that will result in harmed children. And even if the children are healthy, the stress of raising so many babies at once is not justifiable.

No. You have fertility treatments because you want to have a baby. That should not come with the stipulation that you must also be willing to abort a baby as needed.

Look at Kate's kids - which ones do you think she should have aborted? Come on. I get why selective reduction is *recommended* but I also totally get why someone may not be able to do it. We all take our chances and live with the consequences of our choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

It's unethical not to selectively reduce higher-order multiples. People really need to think this through before undergoing procedures that create the risk.

I couldn't do it. I also understand why an infertile woman would do everything in her power to get pregnant again w/o assuming that she would get pregnant with, and carry to term, 6 babies. That isn't something you just anticipate doing. Apparently she was initially pregnant with 7 and one of the babies died in utero...I think a spontaneous reduction is more in line with what she thought would happen. I personally could not decide to do away with baby A, C and E in order to give B, D and F a better shot of surviving. I couldn't do it.

If you couldn't do it, then don't do fertility treatments that pose the risk of higher-order multiples. It's unethical to take actions that will result in harmed children. And even if the children are healthy, the stress of raising so many babies at once is not justifiable.

No. You have fertility treatments because you want to have a baby. That should not come with the stipulation that you must also be willing to abort a baby as needed.

Look at Kate's kids - which ones do you think she should have aborted? Come on. I get why selective reduction is *recommended* but I also totally get why someone may not be able to do it. We all take our chances and live with the consequences of our choices.

As I posted above, ideally you do it under the care of a responsible doctor who makes every effort to avoid high level multiples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

How she got pregnant with multiples wasn’t standard practice at the time. Her obsession put her and her children’s lives at risk.

For some reasons, I thought that she might have used Clomid?

My twins are similar ages to the Gosselin sextuplets. I can tell you that no reputable fertility doctor in this region would do an IUI during a Clomid cycle with that many eggs. A responsible doctor should have been monitoring egg production. I don't know if it was an unmonitored cycle or whether they had a cavalier doctor.

We used IVF for two pregnancies, and the second time, in 2004, the doctor highly recommended only transferring one embryo. I realize that a fertilized embryo is not the same as having many eggs, but most doctors would not allow insemination in Kate's situation.

I'm thinking that Kate used her medical knowledge from nursing to enhance her own prospects of getting pregnant and carrying at least one baby to term. She and Jon did not have an unlimited amount of money/time that they could spend on infertility treatments. Kate took the now or never approach, found a doctor that would work with her and she wound up with 6 babies. I do not think that she, Jon or her doctor expected that at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

How she got pregnant with multiples wasn’t standard practice at the time. Her obsession put her and her children’s lives at risk.

For some reasons, I thought that she might have used Clomid?

My twins are similar ages to the Gosselin sextuplets. I can tell you that no reputable fertility doctor in this region would do an IUI during a Clomid cycle with that many eggs. A responsible doctor should have been monitoring egg production. I don't know if it was an unmonitored cycle or whether they had a cavalier doctor.

We used IVF for two pregnancies, and the second time, in 2004, the doctor highly recommended only transferring one embryo. I realize that a fertilized embryo is not the same as having many eggs, but most doctors would not allow insemination in Kate's situation.

I'm thinking that Kate used her medical knowledge from nursing to enhance her own prospects of getting pregnant and carrying at least one baby to term. She and Jon did not have an unlimited amount of money/time that they could spend on infertility treatments. Kate took the now or never approach, found a doctor that would work with her and she wound up with 6 babies. I do not think that she, Jon or her doctor expected that at all.

I have my doubts. Clomid and IUI is not that expensive. IF they were doing IVF many you have to risk it.

But that's just my take as someone who went through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

How she got pregnant with multiples wasn’t standard practice at the time. Her obsession put her and her children’s lives at risk.

For some reasons, I thought that she might have used Clomid?

My twins are similar ages to the Gosselin sextuplets. I can tell you that no reputable fertility doctor in this region would do an IUI during a Clomid cycle with that many eggs. A responsible doctor should have been monitoring egg production. I don't know if it was an unmonitored cycle or whether they had a cavalier doctor.

We used IVF for two pregnancies, and the second time, in 2004, the doctor highly recommended only transferring one embryo. I realize that a fertilized embryo is not the same as having many eggs, but most doctors would not allow insemination in Kate's situation.

I'm thinking that Kate used her medical knowledge from nursing to enhance her own prospects of getting pregnant and carrying at least one baby to term. She and Jon did not have an unlimited amount of money/time that they could spend on infertility treatments. Kate took the now or never approach, found a doctor that would work with her and she wound up with 6 babies. I do not think that she, Jon or her doctor expected that at all.

I have my doubts. Clomid and IUI is not that expensive. IF they were doing IVF many you have to risk it.

But that's just my take as someone who went through it.

I think that Jon was only willing to put so much time/effort/money into having another child. It wasn't that big of a deal to him but it was to Kate so she did what she felt she had to do. She just did not anticipate having such great success!

[Anonymous]

My IUI cycles were $1500 each. For MOST mere mortals, that is NOT cheap. I mean, it isn't an IVF cycle, but it is still a chunk of change. If you did one, ok - but most people need to do more than one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My IUI cycles were $1500 each. For MOST mere mortals, that is NOT cheap. I mean, it isn't an IVF cycle, but it is still a chunk of change. If you did one, ok - but most people need to do more than one.

I guess that's true, but I can't remember if they charge you for the full cycle if you don't do the actual insemination. For me, IUI was covered by insurance but IVF was not.

My opinion is that risking high order multiples was irresponsible. She had two children already, and the wreckage of that type of pregnancy could have been severe. But my perspective was shaped by being a patient at a conservative fertility clinic that tried to avoid high order multiples. I'm not suggesting that she would have wanted to abort any of them, just that the took a huge risk. When we did our second round of IVF, there is no change I would have taken a risk like that. What would happen to my other child if I had babies in the NICU for weeks.

Times have changed since them, but the risks associated with high order multiples is one reason to advocate for insurance coverage for IVF (and IUI). People should not gamble with their lives and the lives of their babies. The risks associated with prematurity are tremendous, including pain and suffering for the babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And one other thing. Jon has said that Kate had started doing book tours (I think) and he was often left alone in the house to care for the kids with the help of a nanny. Kate was in the limelight, out getting attention, bringing in the money while Jon was stuck at home taking care of the kids. THAT is what he walked away from. He resented Kate's star power and did everything he could to bring her down. He is STILL trying to bring her down.

He wanted to parent and be a regular family. That is not bringing her down. He had to work and take care of 8 kids while she was the tv star. Regardless of it all, he was the primary parent and then when he wanted to leave the show, the show paid for her attorneys to take the kids away from him. He wanted custody of the kids and was refused. He was only granted limited visitation that Kate didn't even follow. He went back to court many times and was refused help. Most courts only care about upholding child support and there are rarely consequences for missed visitation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And one other thing. Jon has said that Kate had started doing book tours (I think) and he was often left alone in the house to care for the kids with the help of a nanny. Kate was in the limelight, out getting attention, bringing in the money while Jon was stuck at home taking care of the kids. THAT is what he walked away from. He resented Kate's star power and did everything he could to bring her down. He is STILL trying to bring her down.

He wanted to parent and be a regular family. That is not bringing her down. He had to work and take care of 8 kids while she was the tv star. Regardless of it all, he was the primary parent and then when he wanted to leave the show, the show paid for her attorneys to take the kids away from him. He wanted custody of the kids and was refused. He was only granted limited visitation that Kate didn't even follow. He went back to court many times and was refused help. Most courts only care about upholding child support and there are rarely consequences for missed visitation.

So naturally he became a stripper! I mean what else would a guy do? Come on. You can't go all out Jerry Springer and then claim that you had your children's best interests at heart.

When asked why he waited tables instead of getting his IT job back he said that it was because he haaattteeed IT. Ugh, grow the eff up little man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

How she got pregnant with multiples wasn’t standard practice at the time. Her obsession put her and her children’s lives at risk.

Ugh, who the hell cares? Seriously, she did not plot to have 6 kids in order to become a famous reality show personality. Have you even seen what Kate looked like when she first did the Discovery Health documentary? She was frumped out, exhausted, with a baggy stomach from having carried 6 babies all at once. The deal with TLC was like winning the lottery - a dream but not something you could ever plan on doing. How people don't get that is beyond me.

She was obsessed with the Iowa family who got all sorts of “free stuff” with the birth of their sextuplets. Kate wanted attention and “free stuff.” She had been trying to market her twins for modeling before she became pregnant. I would not have put it cast her to try to market herself to tv shows. It’s like she did win the Lottery. Many lottery winners have money but have completely cut off family and friends. Just like Kate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

How she got pregnant with multiples wasn’t standard practice at the time. Her obsession put her and her children’s lives at risk.

Ugh, who the hell cares? Seriously, she did not plot to have 6 kids in order to become a famous reality show personality. Have you even seen what Kate looked like when she first did the Discovery Health documentary? She was frumped out, exhausted, with a baggy stomach from having carried 6 babies all at once. The deal with TLC was like winning the lottery - a dream but not something you could ever plan on doing. How people don't get that is beyond me.

She was obsessed with the Iowa family who got all sorts of “free stuff” with the birth of their sextuplets. Kate wanted attention and “free stuff.” She had been trying to market her twins for modeling before she became pregnant. I would not have put it cast her to try to market herself to tv shows. It’s like she did win the Lottery. Many lottery winners have money but have completely cut off family and friends. Just like Kate.

Again, look back at what Kate looked like when she did that first Discovery Health documentary. She was about as frump as frump could be. Why? Because she was taking care of 8 kids full time plus working on the weekends. Jon was spending his days at an IT job that he HAAATTTEEED.. But now he claims that he wanted his "normal life" back. So, ya know, the whole stripper thing, waiting tables and a bachelor pad for his ONS. Gimmee a break.

Kate is the one that provided for their kids. Kate is the one who raised their kids. And, now that the work is nearly done, Jon is back in the picture second guessing every damn thing that she did. Explain how sending the kids off to live with their stripper father would have been in those children's best interests?

[Anonymous]

I would imagine that Kate's desperation to make the whole reality t.v. show work stemmed from her realization that she had married and produced 8 kids with a complete and total moron. She had to support those babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both have discussed their fertility treatments on air. I can't believe I used to watch their show when it first came out years and years ago, but I specifically remember her claim that even though they had twins, she wanted to know what it was like to have a one baby vs a multiple, so she convinced John to do another round. I can't remember if she did IVF or IUI but they did something. It's on one of the earliest episodes. I am so ashamed that I know this.

This is one of those things where I think that they had fertility issues and Kate, in particular, really wanted another baby. She probably did do everything she could to optimize her chances of becoming pregnant again. I do not think that she planned to have SEXTUPLETS. If people could plan that, there would be more people doing just that.

Sextuplets are rare for good reason. They are not common or something that you "go for" - they happen!

She wanted multiples, and refused to have them reduce.

She got pregnant with multiples and, after having struggled with infertility, could not bring herself to selectively reduce. Honestly, I don't think I could have done it either.

How she got pregnant with multiples wasn’t standard practice at the time. Her obsession put her and her children’s lives at risk.

Ugh, who the hell cares? Seriously, she did not plot to have 6 kids in order to become a famous reality show personality. Have you even seen what Kate looked like when she first did the Discovery Health documentary? She was frumped out, exhausted, with a baggy stomach from having carried 6 babies all at once. The deal with TLC was like winning the lottery - a dream but not something you could ever plan on doing. How people don't get that is beyond me.

She was obsessed with the Iowa family who got all sorts of “free stuff” with the birth of their sextuplets. Kate wanted attention and “free stuff.” She had been trying to market her twins for modeling before she became pregnant. I would not have put it cast her to try to market herself to tv shows. It’s like she did win the Lottery. Many lottery winners have money but have completely cut off family and friends. Just like Kate.

Again, look back at what Kate looked like when she did that first Discovery Health documentary. She was about as frump as frump could be. Why? Because she was taking care of 8 kids full time plus working on the weekends. Jon was spending his days at an IT job that he HAAATTTEEED.. But now he claims that he wanted his "normal life" back. So, ya know, the whole stripper thing, waiting tables and a bachelor pad for his ONS. Gimmee a break.

Kate is the one that provided for their kids. Kate is the one who raised their kids. And, now that the work is nearly done, Jon is back in the picture second guessing every damn thing that she did. Explain how sending the kids off to live with their stripper father would have been in those children's best interests?

Kate is a narcissist. She left the babies to have a tummy tuck. There's no way I would have done that when my kids were that age. She's all about her.