What is the endgame for current attack on elite unis + international students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

How exactly do you believe we benefit from Communist Chinese students who are mandated to steal our intellectual property and report it back to Xi?

Most of the Chinese students that I knew ended up staying here and becoming citizens.

And many are spies exporting IP.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So is the idea that you have to be a United States citizen to go to a United States institution? Because if so, I’m not necessarily opposed to it.

Never in history have we hosted so many foreigners un US institutions. We need to look after our own FIRST. We've neglected our own. There needs to be a cap, like <10% or some number of foreigners to allow for majority Americans.

And ban foreign students from ever attending any top 30 universities.

They have been stealing IP and American students' seats for decades while we subsidize each of these institutions with tax money in the tune of billions each year.

Tax payers are losing seats and money and foreigners are mocking Americans.

Is this the same poster? Until this week I never heard people complain that we educate too many foreigners in the USA. WTF is going on?

Bc we see the number of kids from China at Cornell or the Cali schools. And our kids can’t get in. And it morphs the feeling of these campuses and makes them “quirky” and antisocial.

Why are we educating Chinas wealthiest??? Same for India. It makes no sense.

Quirky and antisocial? That's ridiculous. Just admit you don't like foreigners! Some of the nicest people in my grad program were the international students. My grandma had a Chinese grad student friend at Cornell in the 1930s. We have their pen pal letters.

China's wealthiest and India's wealthiest either want to move here or do business here. They want to be exposed to the state of the art education. It's similar to what goes on at Oxford and Cambridge.

The international cohorts are so large that these campuses are effectively segregated. Not sure why you think it’s some paradise. It’s not.

Sounds like you have difficulty making friends with people who aren't exactly like you. International students are usually delighted to make American friends. But they will peel off in groups for comfort if nobody reaches out.

Litmus test. If you go to the cafeteria and see a group of people speaking a foreign language, does that upset you? Do you wave and say hi to the people you know in that group?

NP
I wave and say hi. They say hi and continue to speak an exclusive language to keep me and others out. It happened to DD at TJ too.

Ok. So then you make friends 1:1 and next time you can sit with them and they'll switch to English for you.

NP. Why should they have to cater to antisocial behavior? How about no one appeases them, they can stay in their groups and Americans can choose whether they want such behavior around. Pretty simple.

Unless you're Anglo-American or Native American, odds are your American immigrant forebears did exactly the same thing.

I have Eastern European heritage. When my ancestors showed up to work on railroads in Upstate New York, the Irish immigrant people literally threw rocks at them. They had a church and community organizations that all operated in their native language. Maintenance of a second language is normal. Making friends across racial/ethnic lines is also possible and normal. If you feel excluded, I really wonder whether you cared or tried to be included.

TJ is not an ordinary school. Your problems in that rarified environment are not highly relevant to mainstream experiences. Our high school is mostly white with average SAT somewhere below 1200. It's not a school district that the brightest immigrants would send their kids to. So as a consequence, my kid doesn't really know what excellence looks like. Care to trade?

Are you aware that all humans originated from Africa? Yes, even your Eastern European ancestors. Yet every other country has measures in place to protect their people BECAUSE they've gone through what the US is going through now. Do you really think because the US is a 'newer' country, we shouldn't protect what our ancestors built here? Why should we play by rules that are advantages to those without citizenship but not with? We can and should increase opportunities for our citizens today without providing those opportunities for non-citizens. Why is this so controversial? Or is the fact that you might be African just mind blowing to you?

There are a lot of ancestors who were part of the building who were not compensated for it and to this day, still suffer the stigma associated with it. Try seeing the world through other people's lenses.

Tale as old as time in every country on this planet. I do see where you are coming from, but we have to start where we are not get stuck in the past. If we shut out foreigners we are not proliferating racism. I too am a person of color. We are simply saying what we are doing now is not sustainable, just like every "old world" country has already done.

despite Trumpism, the world is a global community. Integrating our higher education with people from around the world makes American-born students stronger and more worldly.

Exactly what university partnerships are for. Foreign students attend their universities, American students attend ours. We form partnerships and Bingo - win win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Less educated population. Less critical thinking. Fewer places for people to pursue intellectual and liberal ideas. All leads to better control of the population and easier for authoritarians. Taking international students away takes their $$ away and makes universities more susceptible to having to comply with things for $

Elite universities have so diminished themselves, they are little more than ridiculous indoctrination centers for the left.

Start here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudine_Gay

Harvard claimed it elevated Ms. Gay solely on the basis of her achievement, and her race and gender were “merely incidental.”

Ms. Gay has only a paltry 11 published works throughout her career and most of those works were plagiarized. Worse still, most of the topics in “her” published works involved topics such as critical race theory, DEIA, systemic white racism, etc.

She is but one small but obvious example of a massive bias problem in our universities.

Even if one agreed with you (which I’m not going to comment on), why is the answer to burn it down rather than fix it? We are destroying scientific research because Harvard maybe chose the wrong person for President? It makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

The international students are generally full pay. Your tax dollars are not going to them or subsidizing them, quite the opposite.

You need to learn the way the tax system works at the universities. Many foreign students are subsidized by our tax dollars, especially at the graduate level. All the students in my grad program were sponsored through grants paid by US tax money - ALL OF THEM - even the foreigners. The professor earns the grant (tax money) and disseminates it to the students working on the projects.

[Anonymous]

Zionism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

DP. No it doesn't. We have a shortage of nephrologists. Trump deported one. How many didn't get their kidney transplant?

Also most international students are going to high admit lower tier institutions. They prevent them from folding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

DP. No it doesn't. We have a shortage of nephrologists. Trump deported one. How many didn't get their kidney transplant?

Also most international students are going to high admit lower tier institutions. They prevent them from folding.

We can train more American doctors with our tax money. The average acceptance rate to medical school is 5%. This plus the shortage of doctors tells me we need more medical schools, not that we need more foreigners. Seriously, logical reasoning is definitely not your strength.

Maybe these lower tier universities should fold? We are a capitalist economy and it has worked for us. And I think we can send more full pay american students, plus subsidize the lower income intelligent ones. In the 90s, I was a national merit finalist and it came with a full ride at most universities, and some funding at the others I applied to. Now, I don't think it even guarantees a spot for those kids at top tier and I strongly believe it should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

Actually I believe that happens because of weak math education K-12 in the US and people's voluntary choice of majors. We don't have a lot of native-born Americans going to grad school in certain fields so we have to import them. American-born grad students have the same job opportunities as foreign-born grad students.

https://www.the74million.org/article/the-future-is-stem-but-without-enough-students-the-u-s-will-be-left-behind/

The world has changed, my friend. We don't need great mathematicians, we have AI. We need thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs to pull it all together. The US has and has always had these in abundance.

AI's still pretty stupid, my friend. If you think it's going to work out great to be a math illiterate innovator in CS and Engineering, you're an enabler. Go back to strategy consulting.

I actually am a senior AI advisor at one of the largest companies in the world. We are offshoring all these jobs to India because they are cheaper to employ IN INDIA. You should read the jobs board here. Lots of folks complaining about this right now. And yes there are many thing AI cannot do - like be creative or entrepreneurial, hence my post.

Wow, so impressed by you. I work at one of the largest companies in the world also. We are looking at all sorts of ways to use AI and so far coming up with a lot of crappy half-assed "help you get started" work product.

There's a Goldman Sachs analyst who recently posted that AI at GS was 6 times more expensive than using people to do the same analytical task.

If you're busy outsourcing jobs to India that just indicates labor is cheaper in India. Shouldn't you be figuring out innovative ways to hire American graduates from American schools with all the savings from AI's speed and efficiency? Nah, you'd just rather contribute to the next wave of offshoring. Who's selling out America now?

By the way, AI does a pretty good job of making clip art and poems. So there's that...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

DP. No it doesn't. We have a shortage of nephrologists. Trump deported one. How many didn't get their kidney transplant?

Also most international students are going to high admit lower tier institutions. They prevent them from folding.

We can train more American doctors with our tax money. The average acceptance rate to medical school is 5%. This plus the shortage of doctors tells me we need more medical schools, not that we need more foreigners. Seriously, logical reasoning is definitely not your strength.

Maybe these lower tier universities should fold? We are a capitalist economy and it has worked for us. And I think we can send more full pay american students, plus subsidize the lower income intelligent ones. In the 90s, I was a national merit finalist and it came with a full ride at most universities, and some funding at the others I applied to. Now, I don't think it even guarantees a spot for those kids at top tier and I strongly believe it should.

I was a National Merit Finalist in 1986 and there were only full rides from very low tier schools. I only got $2K from the Mid-Atlantic flagship that I attended. The other flagship I know a lot about had full-rides unconnected to NMF status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, the point of most public services is to serve the actual public in question. Which in the case of American universities is presumably American students. It does become outrageous and concerning when universities start primarily catering to foreigners over the native populace, and college/university transforms from a genuine effort to educate the population and turns into a for-profit "get your citizenship here" feeder program

Absolutely. And why did this happen:

The total number of international students in American universities for the specified years, based on available data, is as follows:
• 1995: 452,635
• 2000: 514,723
• 2005: 564,766
• 2010: 723,277
• 2015: 1,043,839
• 2020: 914,095
• 2023: 1,057,188

That's bananas

Is there data that shows this info as a percentage of college student population? College population has also grown over this period, and there is a population burst (which I think is about to end after high school class of 2026 or maybe 2027). So some of a growth in raw numbers may be attributable to other factors.

Curious why you’re going out of your way to make so many excuses rather than just admit yes this may be problematic.

DP
I think it is bananas that we have so many foreigners here. However as a data analyst, I'd have to see these numbers normalized to the university population for them to be meaningful.

5% of the total college student pop is foreign. That is not a bananas number, PP. All countries have international students, and the US is certainly not an outlier in this regard.

Universities are here to educate humans, wherever they come from. Obviously they will serve more locals than people from far-flung locales, and that's OK. BTW, all countries subsidize their universities. So American students who are educated abroad benefit from government support in that country!

Citation from a reputable source? Plus, we are talking about universities, not 4 year colleges, technical schools, community colleges, etc.

I disagree with the bolded. My tax dollars in the university system should go ENTIRELY to Americans and I will advocate for that and vote my conscience every time.

Best hope you or a loved one don't get cancer or other disease and the best treatment was developed in the lab of a foreign born principal investigator and mixed-birth researchers. Idiot. DARWIN applauds you. Stay proud as you let them die.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7489249/

Your link perfectly illustrates what I was saying. Immigrants come here and take American students spots in American tax supported universities. Then they go on to get plumb jobs instead of Americans. Then they make the breakthroughs that Americans have traditionally made and will continue to make given more opportunities for Americans. Perfect illustration of what people are talking about.

DP. No it doesn't. We have a shortage of nephrologists. Trump deported one. How many didn't get their kidney transplant?

Also most international students are going to high admit lower tier institutions. They prevent them from folding.

We can train more American doctors with our tax money. The average acceptance rate to medical school is 5%. This plus the shortage of doctors tells me we need more medical schools, not that we need more foreigners. Seriously, logical reasoning is definitely not your strength.

Maybe these lower tier universities should fold? We are a capitalist economy and it has worked for us. And I think we can send more full pay american students, plus subsidize the lower income intelligent ones. In the 90s, I was a national merit finalist and it came with a full ride at most universities, and some funding at the others I applied to. Now, I don't think it even guarantees a spot for those kids at top tier and I strongly believe it should.

I was a National Merit Finalist in 1986 and there were only full rides from very low tier schools. I only got $2K from the Mid-Atlantic flagship that I attended. The other flagship I know a lot about had full-rides unconnected to NMF status.

Also...NMF is only for SAT takers. Excludes ACT takers. According to their recent junk mail there are about 500K of us.