Did Ellen Greenberg’s fiancé kill her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor girl killed herself. And poor finance had had to live with this hanging over him for almost 15 years

How many suicides of you heard of where a person stabbed herself in the back of her head and neck, pausing in the middle of preparing a salad to do so?

After beating herself at some point over the previous month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor girl killed herself. And poor finance had had to live with this hanging over him for almost 15 years

How many suicides of you heard of where a person stabbed herself in the back of her head and neck, pausing in the middle of preparing a salad to do so?

And continuing to stab yourself repeatedly after severing your own spinal cord? After your partner left you enraged voicemails?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ruled a suicide again. I don't see how that is remotely possible.

https://people.com/ellen-greenberg-death-ruled-suicide-again-11828915

This case is bizarre. I don’t trust the medical examiner’s office. I’m so sad for her family. They’ve fought so hard for so long, and all they’re asking for is for her death to be investigated, which it absolutely should be. The system has failed Ellen repeatedly — at someone’s direction.

How has it failed her? How many times do you think taxpayer money should go towards it being investigated only to come to the same resolution? And before you say “there should be an independent investigation”, you don’t think that will be biased? Sometimes, weird things actually happen.

The Medical Examiner’s Office has reviewed their findings. That’s the only “investigation” so far. Her death has not been investigated as a homicide because it’s been ruled a suicide. Multiple privately hired expert medical examiners disagree with the local ME’s findings. Common sense tells us that suicide sounds far fetched, and we know her fiancé engaged in highly suspicious behavior the day of and first couple days after her death. Her family wants homicide detectives to investigate the her death, which they have not done.

You can hire experts to say anything. And I disagree that her fiancé acted suspiciously.

Her death was ruled a homicide upon autopsy. Shortly afterward, the ruling was changed to suicide, thus ending a homicide investigation that was just beginning. The same employee of the ME’s Office who ruled homicide and then reversed his ruling to suicide has, in recent years, signed a statement saying he no longer believes her death was a suicide. One of the experts hired by the family is pathologist Cyril Wecht, who is one of the most renowned pathologists in the US. Dr. Wecht found that her injuries were not self inflicted.

The fact that half of the stab wounds were to the back of her head and neck, including severing her spinal cord, would lead most people to be skeptical of the suicide ruling. She also had older bruises that were in the process of healing. She was seeing a therapist for anxiety, and her therapist stated she never expressed suicidal ideation. She told her parents she wanted to move home; the most dangerous time for an abused woman is when she tries to leave.

This. It’s also plain from the voicemails he left her right before the death that he had serious anger issues. I’ve never received messages like that from a partner. His timeline is also very suspicious. I definitely think he did it.

He lied about being accompanied to the door. He lied about calling family members while doing so. He said he was coming from the gym in the building but was wearing boots. His uncle the judge cleared out all his electronics immediately, too. Of course he did it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poor girl killed herself. And poor finance had had to live with this hanging over him for almost 15 years

I hope he never knows a moment's peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor girl killed herself. And poor finance had had to live with this hanging over him for almost 15 years

How many suicides of you heard of where a person stabbed herself in the back of her head and neck, pausing in the middle of preparing a salad to do so?

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor girl killed herself. And poor finance had had to live with this hanging over him for almost 15 years

How many suicides of you heard of where a person stabbed herself in the back of her head and neck, pausing in the middle of preparing a salad to do so?

+1000

The truth is that most suicides are very spontaneous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor girl killed herself. And poor finance had had to live with this hanging over him for almost 15 years

How many suicides of you heard of where a person stabbed herself in the back of her head and neck, pausing in the middle of preparing a salad to do so?

+1000

It does happen. https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/local/south-philly-holiday-inn-woman-stabbed/86111/?amp=1

[Anonymous]

I can’t get past a few things-

- no defensive wounds
-Many of the wounds were very shallow and small, which strikes me a strange
- no apparent traces of blood on fiancé (bloody clothing, shoes, footprints, etc)
- only victim’s DNA on knives
- I don’t think that suicide is out of the question considering her mental health
- was the fiancé really smart and resourceful enough to come up with this entire story in a matter of about an hour?

I always think it’s the husband/boyfriend/fiancé but this case really confounds me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t get past a few things-

- no defensive wounds
-Many of the wounds were very shallow and small, which strikes me a strange
- no apparent traces of blood on fiancé (bloody clothing, shoes, footprints, etc)
- only victim’s DNA on knives
- I don’t think that suicide is out of the question considering her mental health
- was the fiancé really smart and resourceful enough to come up with this entire story in a matter of about an hour?

I always think it’s the husband/boyfriend/fiancé but this case really confounds me.

We might have had more answers if her death had been ruled Undetermined and thoroughly investigated back when she died.

[Anonymous]

He lied about being accompanied to the door. He lied about calling family members while doing so. He said he was coming from the gym in the building but was wearing boots. His uncle the judge cleared out all his electronics immediately, too. Of course he did it.

Didn't the uncle also take HER electronics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t get past a few things-

- no defensive wounds
-Many of the wounds were very shallow and small, which strikes me a strange
- no apparent traces of blood on fiancé (bloody clothing, shoes, footprints, etc)
- only victim’s DNA on knives
- I don’t think that suicide is out of the question considering her mental health
- was the fiancé really smart and resourceful enough to come up with this entire story in a matter of about an hour?

I always think it’s the husband/boyfriend/fiancé but this case really confounds me.

We might have had more answers if her death had been ruled Undetermined and thoroughly investigated back when she died.

Not possible to answer all, but here's a few:

If initially stabbed from behind (say, while making her salad) might have been too incapacitated to fight back and incur defensive wounds. One severed her spinal cord. For someone who's not an experienced killer, not that weird to have a mix of shallow and deep wounds especially if she was twisting away. The reconstruction of the stab wounds and the angles required to achieve them suggest unlikely if not impossible to have been self-inflicted. Is there any record of a suicide case where someone has stabbed themselves *from behind*??
We don't know much about the knife testing, but it'a not that hard to wipe the handle clean and wrap her hand around it. There was some evidence of staging. He had clothes in the wash, definitely could have changed and concealed any incriminating clothes that way. The police didn't even properly process the scene, it was fully sanitized within a day.
The mental health question is an open one, but her therapist didn't think she displayed any signs. She did not search for suicide on her laptop.
What entire story? Being out of the apartment for only 30ish minutes, "at the gym" while wearing boots, then saying she "fell on a knife" before quickly changing it to she killed herself... His well-connected uncle then swiftly swooped in to assist him.

Agree with your last point 1000%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t get past a few things-

- no defensive wounds
-Many of the wounds were very shallow and small, which strikes me a strange
- no apparent traces of blood on fiancé (bloody clothing, shoes, footprints, etc)
- only victim’s DNA on knives
- I don’t think that suicide is out of the question considering her mental health
- was the fiancé really smart and resourceful enough to come up with this entire story in a matter of about an hour?

I always think it’s the husband/boyfriend/fiancé but this case really confounds me.

We might have had more answers if her death had been ruled Undetermined and thoroughly investigated back when she died.

Not possible to answer all, but here's a few:

If initially stabbed from behind (say, while making her salad) might have been too incapacitated to fight back and incur defensive wounds. One severed her spinal cord. For someone who's not an experienced killer, not that weird to have a mix of shallow and deep wounds especially if she was twisting away. The reconstruction of the stab wounds and the angles required to achieve them suggest unlikely if not impossible to have been self-inflicted. Is there any record of a suicide case where someone has stabbed themselves *from behind*??
We don't know much about the knife testing, but it'a not that hard to wipe the handle clean and wrap her hand around it. There was some evidence of staging. He had clothes in the wash, definitely could have changed and concealed any incriminating clothes that way. The police didn't even properly process the scene, it was fully sanitized within a day.
The mental health question is an open one, but her therapist didn't think she displayed any signs. She did not search for suicide on her laptop.
What entire story? Being out of the apartment for only 30ish minutes, "at the gym" while wearing boots, then saying she "fell on a knife" before quickly changing it to she killed herself... His well-connected uncle then swiftly swooped in to assist him.

Agree with your last point 1000%.

I have seen no credible evidence that his uncle was well connected. Connected to who?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t get past a few things-

- no defensive wounds
-Many of the wounds were very shallow and small, which strikes me a strange
- no apparent traces of blood on fiancé (bloody clothing, shoes, footprints, etc)
- only victim’s DNA on knives
- I don’t think that suicide is out of the question considering her mental health
- was the fiancé really smart and resourceful enough to come up with this entire story in a matter of about an hour?

I always think it’s the husband/boyfriend/fiancé but this case really confounds me.

We might have had more answers if her death had been ruled Undetermined and thoroughly investigated back when she died.

Not possible to answer all, but here's a few:

If initially stabbed from behind (say, while making her salad) might have been too incapacitated to fight back and incur defensive wounds. One severed her spinal cord. For someone who's not an experienced killer, not that weird to have a mix of shallow and deep wounds especially if she was twisting away. The reconstruction of the stab wounds and the angles required to achieve them suggest unlikely if not impossible to have been self-inflicted. Is there any record of a suicide case where someone has stabbed themselves *from behind*??
We don't know much about the knife testing, but it'a not that hard to wipe the handle clean and wrap her hand around it. There was some evidence of staging. He had clothes in the wash, definitely could have changed and concealed any incriminating clothes that way. The police didn't even properly process the scene, it was fully sanitized within a day.
The mental health question is an open one, but her therapist didn't think she displayed any signs. She did not search for suicide on her laptop.
What entire story? Being out of the apartment for only 30ish minutes, "at the gym" while wearing boots, then saying she "fell on a knife" before quickly changing it to she killed herself... His well-connected uncle then swiftly swooped in to assist him.

Agree with your last point 1000%.

I have seen no credible evidence that his uncle was well connected. Connected to who?

He was a well-connected judge.

From Wiki:
James Schwartzman, Samuel Goldberg's uncle and the Chairman of the Pennsylvania Judicial Conduct Board in Pennsylvania,[13] also entered the apartment that day to retrieve work and personal laptops, phones, and credit cards belonging to both Goldberg and Greenberg. Police returned to the scene on January 28 after gaining a search warrant, and also requested and retrieved the items taken by Schwartzman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t get past a few things-

- no defensive wounds
-Many of the wounds were very shallow and small, which strikes me a strange
- no apparent traces of blood on fiancé (bloody clothing, shoes, footprints, etc)
- only victim’s DNA on knives
- I don’t think that suicide is out of the question considering her mental health
- was the fiancé really smart and resourceful enough to come up with this entire story in a matter of about an hour?

I always think it’s the husband/boyfriend/fiancé but this case really confounds me.

We might have had more answers if her death had been ruled Undetermined and thoroughly investigated back when she died.

Not possible to answer all, but here's a few:

If initially stabbed from behind (say, while making her salad) might have been too incapacitated to fight back and incur defensive wounds. One severed her spinal cord. For someone who's not an experienced killer, not that weird to have a mix of shallow and deep wounds especially if she was twisting away. The reconstruction of the stab wounds and the angles required to achieve them suggest unlikely if not impossible to have been self-inflicted. Is there any record of a suicide case where someone has stabbed themselves *from behind*??
We don't know much about the knife testing, but it'a not that hard to wipe the handle clean and wrap her hand around it. There was some evidence of staging. He had clothes in the wash, definitely could have changed and concealed any incriminating clothes that way. The police didn't even properly process the scene, it was fully sanitized within a day.
The mental health question is an open one, but her therapist didn't think she displayed any signs. She did not search for suicide on her laptop.
What entire story? Being out of the apartment for only 30ish minutes, "at the gym" while wearing boots, then saying she "fell on a knife" before quickly changing it to she killed herself... His well-connected uncle then swiftly swooped in to assist him.

Agree with your last point 1000%.

I have seen no credible evidence that his uncle was well connected. Connected to who?

Really, it's easy to look up: Uncle is a prominent figure in Pennsylvania legal circles. He has served as a judge on the Pennsylvania Court of Judicial Discipline, was President Judge of that court, and formerly chaired or been involved with judicial conduct boards and ethics review in Pennsylvania.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t get past a few things-

- no defensive wounds
-Many of the wounds were very shallow and small, which strikes me a strange
- no apparent traces of blood on fiancé (bloody clothing, shoes, footprints, etc)
- only victim’s DNA on knives
- I don’t think that suicide is out of the question considering her mental health
- was the fiancé really smart and resourceful enough to come up with this entire story in a matter of about an hour?

I always think it’s the husband/boyfriend/fiancé but this case really confounds me.

We might have had more answers if her death had been ruled Undetermined and thoroughly investigated back when she died.

Not possible to answer all, but here's a few:

If initially stabbed from behind (say, while making her salad) might have been too incapacitated to fight back and incur defensive wounds. One severed her spinal cord. For someone who's not an experienced killer, not that weird to have a mix of shallow and deep wounds especially if she was twisting away. The reconstruction of the stab wounds and the angles required to achieve them suggest unlikely if not impossible to have been self-inflicted. Is there any record of a suicide case where someone has stabbed themselves *from behind*??
We don't know much about the knife testing, but it'a not that hard to wipe the handle clean and wrap her hand around it. There was some evidence of staging. He had clothes in the wash, definitely could have changed and concealed any incriminating clothes that way. The police didn't even properly process the scene, it was fully sanitized within a day.
The mental health question is an open one, but her therapist didn't think she displayed any signs. She did not search for suicide on her laptop.
What entire story? Being out of the apartment for only 30ish minutes, "at the gym" while wearing boots, then saying she "fell on a knife" before quickly changing it to she killed herself... His well-connected uncle then swiftly swooped in to assist him.

Agree with your last point 1000%.

I have seen no credible evidence that his uncle was well connected. Connected to who?

Really, it's easy to look up: Uncle is a prominent figure in Pennsylvania legal circles. He has served as a judge on the Pennsylvania Court of Judicial Discipline, was President Judge of that court, and formerly chaired or been involved with judicial conduct boards and ethics review in Pennsylvania.

And Josh Shapiro, who was AG at the time, was a family friend. There is no evidence he did anything untoward but it will be used to smear him if and when he runs for president.