Discrimination against Asians

[Anonymous]

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What is happening before the lottery? You are using the word discrimination in very general terms. I am using discrimination as in systematic discrimination of one privileged class over a minority in society.

https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

"Assuming that all of the students who qualify for the lottery will apply for admissions to TJ. the percentage of Asian students gaining admission to TJ will be slashed by more than half from 73% admitted in the Class of 2024 to 33.52%. In contrast, the percentage of white students gaining admission to TJ will more than double from 18% admitted in the Class of 2024 to 44.88%, making white families the plan’s greatest beneficiaries and dramatically shrinking the school’s overall percentage of minorities."

This is racial cleansing of an institution. I am all for bigger URM representation. What is alarming is that people like you who fall into believing that a lottery system will achieve a goal that is worthy, but is more likely than not achievable. Anything with a random component, unless all dimensions are random (location, resources, interest in STEM, etc.), is bound to be more beneficial to the privileged. And Whites are the most privileged demographic on earth. That is why the lottery (and the above analysis) points to a perpetuation of the same social dynamic that has been here for ages.

Do a more targeted policy. In companies around the world now, people are getting assessed for Diversity and Inclusion. Have a classes on D&I. Make students get grades. Just like community service, give them a credit for hours helping URMs. Get extra credit for tutoring middle school URMs to get into TJ. If they get in, give them an A. They will make friends. It will be better for social cohesion. URMs will more likely come to TJ. I bet the Asian folks will be competing like mad to make this a reality and it will also look wonderful in college admissions.

Do not believe in this sham of a lottery policy. Systematic discrimination occurs when people do not even realize they are a part of it. Do not support the lottery.

+1. I like this idea.

Yes, targeted incentive-based policies are better.

+1000

So the new lottery proposal, after more detailed analysis, is projected to decrease Asian percentage at TJ from 73% to 33%. No wonder Asians are angry. Privileged Whites go from 18% to 45% and will be the highest represented demographic at TJ. Ethnic cleansing of an school. This, gentlemen, is racism.

Whose numbers are these? They are not the numbers in the staff presentation, which showed the Class of 2024 enrollment going from 73% to 54% and the Black/Hispanic enrollment increasing from 4% to 15%.

I looked at the data from the staff presentation. It is a sham with gross generalizations. Again, you are all fooled.

Would like to see the data underlying the staff presentation too. I doubt they will provide though.

if you care so much, I'm sure you've already made your request, but just in case

https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/policies-regulations-and-notices/virginia-freedom-information-act-vfoia/freedom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is happening before the lottery? You are using the word discrimination in very general terms. I am using discrimination as in systematic discrimination of one privileged class over a minority in society.

https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

"Assuming that all of the students who qualify for the lottery will apply for admissions to TJ. the percentage of Asian students gaining admission to TJ will be slashed by more than half from 73% admitted in the Class of 2024 to 33.52%. In contrast, the percentage of white students gaining admission to TJ will more than double from 18% admitted in the Class of 2024 to 44.88%, making white families the plan’s greatest beneficiaries and dramatically shrinking the school’s overall percentage of minorities."

This is racial cleansing of an institution. I am all for bigger URM representation. What is alarming is that people like you who fall into believing that a lottery system will achieve a goal that is worthy, but is more likely than not achievable. Anything with a random component, unless all dimensions are random (location, resources, interest in STEM, etc.), is bound to be more beneficial to the privileged. And Whites are the most privileged demographic on earth. That is why the lottery (and the above analysis) points to a perpetuation of the same social dynamic that has been here for ages.

Do a more targeted policy. In companies around the world now, people are getting assessed for Diversity and Inclusion. Have a classes on D&I. Make students get grades. Just like community service, give them a credit for hours helping URMs. Get extra credit for tutoring middle school URMs to get into TJ. If they get in, give them an A. They will make friends. It will be better for social cohesion. URMs will more likely come to TJ. I bet the Asian folks will be competing like mad to make this a reality and it will also look wonderful in college admissions.

Do not believe in this sham of a lottery policy. Systematic discrimination occurs when people do not even realize they are a part of it. Do not support the lottery.

+1. I like this idea.

Yes, targeted incentive-based policies are better.

+1000

So the new lottery proposal, after more detailed analysis, is projected to decrease Asian percentage at TJ from 73% to 33%. No wonder Asians are angry. Privileged Whites go from 18% to 45% and will be the highest represented demographic at TJ. Ethnic cleansing of an school. This, gentlemen, is racism.

Whose numbers are these? They are not the numbers in the staff presentation, which showed the Class of 2024 enrollment going from 73% to 54% and the Black/Hispanic enrollment increasing from 4% to 15%.

I looked at the data from the staff presentation. It is a sham with gross generalizations. Again, you are all fooled.

Would like to see the data underlying the staff presentation too. I doubt they will provide though.

if you care so much, I'm sure you've already made your request, but just in case

https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/policies-regulations-and-notices/virginia-freedom-information-act-vfoia/freedom

The staff don't do a school by school analysis. It is region-based, hence, the different results. I believe more the school based analysis. Usually a more detailed analysis is better.

[Anonymous]

Even Whites are fooled. Once the lottery is all said and done and Whites are the largest demographic, dead silence will be the result. How convenient.

[Anonymous]

So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

I want to see Staff projections by school too. We should be asking for their numbers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Listen to the Black mother speaking at 5:30 in this APS Board meeting, also asking for changes at TJ.

https://www.apsva.us/post/school-board-meeting-august-20-2020/

The Asian posters claiming URMs are not advocating for change at TJ are either unaware of the facts or purposefully misrepresenting them. Do better.

https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

The new lottery system will advantage Whites. Come back with detailed analysis. This is what STEM is about.

Nice deflection but it doesn't change the fact that you or PP lied when you claimed URMs were not supporting change to TJ admissions.

And given how beaten down they've been by FCPS over the years through constant rejections it's a miracle as many will speak out as are doing now.

Are you URM? Can you link me a post from URM parents who are vocal for this lottery? I really like to see URM parents' perspective, not Karens whose kids can't compete. And thank you for turning Fairfax Asians from reliable democrats to voting republicans in November.

Several links have been posted. You could go back and listen to testimony before the FCPS School Board from the spring and summer for more examples.

It's also been pointed out that the fervor of the threads here appears to be driven in large part by local Republicans trying to use this as a wedge issue. It's what they always do come election season (last year it was school boundaries, and the year before that it was the FLE curriculum) and it never gets much traction. Opposition to a TJ lottery won't move the needle in any meaningful way in national or state contests or in local Congressional races, and the only local elections in Fairfax County this year are the Herndon Mayor and Town Council races. But I guess you can keep trying.

I am not a Republican and have voted for Ryan McElveen, John Fauss and many other democrats in the past. I will be voting for Republicans in a few weeks which I guess turns me into a Republican. You are right it won't make a difference. But there are only two ways to right this wrong -- make your voice heard in November and a lawsuit -- that's the American way.

You are not an URM and failed to produce real URM parents' advocacy for a lottery. I have no need to watch professional politicians' speech.

I am a lifelong Democrat but voting for Republicans all the way this time. Enough with identity politics.

+1

If enough of us flip in November, that might just make a difference. I think our numbers will grow.

you're voting for a party running on a platform of not growing your numbers

That’s ok. It doesn’t matter since I am so upset by fcps and the posts on this board. This board turned me into a single issue crusader.

Too bad there's no one on the ballot this fall responsible for how a local high school is run.

And one doesn't need to remind Asians how people in your new party continue to refer to Covid-19.

Have fun!

2023 is too far off. I will make my voice heard now when the issue is fresh.

Not a fan of our white president who is also a cheater. It's not ideal. But we are Americans first, reluctantly Asian Americans second with all the discrimination come with that. He can call it whatever he wants. It doesn't bother us one bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

I want to see Staff projections by school too. We should be asking for their numbers.

Let's face it, the majority will be happy with a 33% Asian outcome. And happier with a 45% White outcome. As the assumption in the analysis says, this is not accounting for who is likely to apply (which can go either way). But going either way implies Whites could potentially have even a majority. Not bad of an outcome, if you ask me. Ethnic cleansing does not just occur abroad. It occurs in pockets in America all the time. One of those will be TJ. People were calling for something "big" - now there you have it, all in the name of helping URMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

I want to see Staff projections by school too. We should be asking for their numbers.

Let's face it, the majority will be happy with a 33% Asian outcome. And happier with a 45% White outcome. As the assumption in the analysis says, this is not accounting for who is likely to apply (which can go either way). But going either way implies Whites could potentially have even a majority. Not bad of an outcome, if you ask me. Ethnic cleansing does not just occur abroad. It occurs in pockets in America all the time. One of those will be TJ. People were calling for something "big" - now there you have it, all in the name of helping URMs.

They will say 17 blacks made it in. The world will be all fine in their eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

Thank you for sharing. I notice that the projection is based on an assumption that every eligible student would apply for the lottery. That is a big assumption to make when we know many families move to certain areas so their kids can attend a specific neighborhood high school, not TJ. I also see that the authors call the lottery a "targeted attack on three middle schools" that currently send a large number of kids to TJ, not an attack on Asians; the basis for an alleged anti-Asian bias is a statement made by a single former Carson MS teacher before the General Assembly in 2018 calling families moving to the USA from India "ravenous," which itself could be read to mean they are eager for knowledge and not as an insult.

What it tells me is that no one really knows what the impact would be, because the FCPS projections appear to have been based on a pre-lottery applicant pool, and the analysis you shared is based on an unrealistic assumption that every eligible student would participate in the lottery. While a lottery is intended to, and would, induce additional applications from groups who have felt they had no realistic shot at TJ, it seems far more likely that the lottery participants will remain heavily Asian, both in terms of their eligibility for, and interest in, TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

Thank you for sharing. I notice that the projection is based on an assumption that every eligible student would apply for the lottery. That is a big assumption to make when we know many families move to certain areas so their kids can attend a specific neighborhood high school, not TJ. I also see that the authors call the lottery a "targeted attack on three middle schools" that currently send a large number of kids to TJ, not an attack on Asians; the basis for an alleged anti-Asian bias is a statement made by a single former Carson MS teacher before the General Assembly in 2018 calling families moving to the USA from India "ravenous," which itself could be read to mean they are eager for knowledge and not as an insult.

What it tells me is that no one really knows what the impact would be, because the FCPS projections appear to have been based on a pre-lottery applicant pool, and the analysis you shared is based on an unrealistic assumption that every eligible student would participate in the lottery. While a lottery is intended to, and would, induce additional applications from groups who have felt they had no realistic shot at TJ, it seems far more likely that the lottery participants will remain heavily Asian, both in terms of their eligibility for, and interest in, TJ.

I think the Staff estimates assume basically the same thing. But the bottom line is that Staff estimates underestimate the decrease in Asian enrollment because they do not do analysis at the school level. My guesstimate is that, ultimately, Asian representation will lie between the two estimates. But can go any which way beyond that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

Thank you for sharing. I notice that the projection is based on an assumption that every eligible student would apply for the lottery. That is a big assumption to make when we know many families move to certain areas so their kids can attend a specific neighborhood high school, not TJ. I also see that the authors call the lottery a "targeted attack on three middle schools" that currently send a large number of kids to TJ, not an attack on Asians; the basis for an alleged anti-Asian bias is a statement made by a single former Carson MS teacher before the General Assembly in 2018 calling families moving to the USA from India "ravenous," which itself could be read to mean they are eager for knowledge and not as an insult.

What it tells me is that no one really knows what the impact would be, because the FCPS projections appear to have been based on a pre-lottery applicant pool, and the analysis you shared is based on an unrealistic assumption that every eligible student would participate in the lottery. While a lottery is intended to, and would, induce additional applications from groups who have felt they had no realistic shot at TJ, it seems far more likely that the lottery participants will remain heavily Asian, both in terms of their eligibility for, and interest in, TJ.

They can't have it both ways. They claim many URMs and other racial groups want to apply to TJ. The obstacle is too many Asians making the school undesirable for them. But now that obstacle is removed, they still don't want to apply. So what's the point of this proposal? I am confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

Thank you for sharing. I notice that the projection is based on an assumption that every eligible student would apply for the lottery. That is a big assumption to make when we know many families move to certain areas so their kids can attend a specific neighborhood high school, not TJ. I also see that the authors call the lottery a "targeted attack on three middle schools" that currently send a large number of kids to TJ, not an attack on Asians; the basis for an alleged anti-Asian bias is a statement made by a single former Carson MS teacher before the General Assembly in 2018 calling families moving to the USA from India "ravenous," which itself could be read to mean they are eager for knowledge and not as an insult.

What it tells me is that no one really knows what the impact would be, because the FCPS projections appear to have been based on a pre-lottery applicant pool, and the analysis you shared is based on an unrealistic assumption that every eligible student would participate in the lottery. While a lottery is intended to, and would, induce additional applications from groups who have felt they had no realistic shot at TJ, it seems far more likely that the lottery participants will remain heavily Asian, both in terms of their eligibility for, and interest in, TJ.

They can't have it both ways. They claim many URMs and other racial groups want to apply to TJ. The obstacle is too many Asians making the school undesirable for them. But now that obstacle is removed, they still don't want to apply. So what's the point of this proposal? I am confused.

The proposal is dead anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

Thank you for sharing. I notice that the projection is based on an assumption that every eligible student would apply for the lottery. That is a big assumption to make when we know many families move to certain areas so their kids can attend a specific neighborhood high school, not TJ. I also see that the authors call the lottery a "targeted attack on three middle schools" that currently send a large number of kids to TJ, not an attack on Asians; the basis for an alleged anti-Asian bias is a statement made by a single former Carson MS teacher before the General Assembly in 2018 calling families moving to the USA from India "ravenous," which itself could be read to mean they are eager for knowledge and not as an insult.

What it tells me is that no one really knows what the impact would be, because the FCPS projections appear to have been based on a pre-lottery applicant pool, and the analysis you shared is based on an unrealistic assumption that every eligible student would participate in the lottery. While a lottery is intended to, and would, induce additional applications from groups who have felt they had no realistic shot at TJ, it seems far more likely that the lottery participants will remain heavily Asian, both in terms of their eligibility for, and interest in, TJ.

They can't have it both ways. They claim many URMs and other racial groups want to apply to TJ. The obstacle is too many Asians making the school undesirable for them. But now that obstacle is removed, they still don't want to apply. So what's the point of this proposal? I am confused.

Or just deliberately dense? It’s not an all or nothing proposition. They may well have an increase in applications from non-Asians without every eligible student applying or students applying at the same rates as Asian students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no one is backing up with specifics the prior claims that the Asian enrollment would dip to 33%?

OK. Just checking because sometimes people do actually do more than simply spread rumors.

Check the numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17MtkF0_fva32Y8dfvr5ewXhl4zgc62pT5ofn9TsXozg/edit#gid=282450905

And a summary of results: https://asrainvestigates.substack.com/p/breaking-analysis-tj-lottery-would?r=1k5zy

Thank you for sharing. I notice that the projection is based on an assumption that every eligible student would apply for the lottery. That is a big assumption to make when we know many families move to certain areas so their kids can attend a specific neighborhood high school, not TJ. I also see that the authors call the lottery a "targeted attack on three middle schools" that currently send a large number of kids to TJ, not an attack on Asians; the basis for an alleged anti-Asian bias is a statement made by a single former Carson MS teacher before the General Assembly in 2018 calling families moving to the USA from India "ravenous," which itself could be read to mean they are eager for knowledge and not as an insult.

What it tells me is that no one really knows what the impact would be, because the FCPS projections appear to have been based on a pre-lottery applicant pool, and the analysis you shared is based on an unrealistic assumption that every eligible student would participate in the lottery. While a lottery is intended to, and would, induce additional applications from groups who have felt they had no realistic shot at TJ, it seems far more likely that the lottery participants will remain heavily Asian, both in terms of their eligibility for, and interest in, TJ.

They can't have it both ways. They claim many URMs and other racial groups want to apply to TJ. The obstacle is too many Asians making the school undesirable for them. But now that obstacle is removed, they still don't want to apply. So what's the point of this proposal? I am confused.

The proposal is dead anyway.

Why do you say that?