Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Do you work? (Just curious)

Yes but not in law. I asked him overall to consider all women lawyers in all levels over many years time and tell me what he thought. His reply matched that of an older but more well researched article in NYT about women lawyers. He said/ it said: men and women in law about equal in number as associates. The number of women drop off as they go upwards in the law firm steps. He was unable (his experience) to name a single senior woman partner who had children. Of the senior women partners that he knew he felt that these women were much, much more intelligent in law than the average male partner and also that they were faster/ more efficient. One persons opinion. I laughed because it’s a cliche. But cliches always have some truth.

Law is a very feminine profession. Lots of organization, emotional labor, and taking the supporting role to your client. A lot of men deal with the inherent emasculinization in sad, small, petty ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all of the advice/supportive comments. I'm still working through them.

Want to note one thing - I have no desire to make partner. Zero. I want to pay back my loans and learn as much as I can before going to the next thing.

keep your eye on the prize lady. do it.

This is real light at the end of the tunnel! I agree that this is by far the hardest time to be juggling everything, but you're making serious progress on your loan and that's no small thing! I agree with everyone saying you should get a nanny or maybe an evening helper depending on your and your DH's schedules. Just outsource to get through this last slog.

+ 1

The good news is your baby won’t remember this time period any way. So honestly, it’s better to work long hours now than when they’re a bit older (pre-k +) and really want to spend time with you.

Just envision your future now...

You’ve gotten rid of your shackles ... err student loans.

You have a baller big law resume to shop around (in house, smaller firm, DOJ)?? The world is your working mom oyster.

You are DONE pumping (yay!!). Kid is sleeping (mostly). Kid stays up later so you can really enjoy family time in the evenings.

It will get so.much.better.

Lord, the justification. Her baby won't remember it consciously but if you think never having parents around and/or having stressed parents has zero effect on your child, you're projecting your hopes about your own situation. That's not reality. OP's DH needs to step up or this can't continue. I vote for him stepping it up.

Sorry but I kind of don’t. I think having the same caregiver matters and a familiar face. Does it need to be the mom? I don’t think it matters. Many women stay at home and think it benefits their child but it’s really for their own emotions and desires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all of the advice/supportive comments. I'm still working through them.

Want to note one thing - I have no desire to make partner. Zero. I want to pay back my loans and learn as much as I can before going to the next thing.

keep your eye on the prize lady. do it.

This is real light at the end of the tunnel! I agree that this is by far the hardest time to be juggling everything, but you're making serious progress on your loan and that's no small thing! I agree with everyone saying you should get a nanny or maybe an evening helper depending on your and your DH's schedules. Just outsource to get through this last slog.

+ 1

The good news is your baby won’t remember this time period any way. So honestly, it’s better to work long hours now than when they’re a bit older (pre-k +) and really want to spend time with you.

Just envision your future now...

You’ve gotten rid of your shackles ... err student loans.

You have a baller big law resume to shop around (in house, smaller firm, DOJ)?? The world is your working mom oyster.

You are DONE pumping (yay!!). Kid is sleeping (mostly). Kid stays up later so you can really enjoy family time in the evenings.

It will get so.much.better.

Lord, the justification. Her baby won't remember it consciously but if you think never having parents around and/or having stressed parents has zero effect on your child, you're projecting your hopes about your own situation. That's not reality. OP's DH needs to step up or this can't continue. I vote for him stepping it up.

OP. I'm ALL FOR husbands doing their fair share, but I'm not understanding the few comments in this thread telling him to step it up. I don't see where he's lacking. Yesterday I decided to take the advice on this thread and work late one night. I did drop off so he could get to work a little earlier to do pick up. He picked up, fed the kid leftovers from a meal he cooked her the day before, gave her a bath, put her to bed, and when I got home around 9:30 had dinner waiting for me. I ate, we talked for a bit, and then I did a little more work while he cleaned the kitchen. What do you want him to do?

I guess this could be every night, and I'm pretty sure he'd do that, but as noted earlier I was trying to do the pickups so I could get some time in before bedtime. On those days, I don't see her any less than anyone doing a 9-5.

But I am starting the think missing bed time once or twice a week to stay late is more manageable. I did about the same amount of work but got a couple more hours sleep. I don't enjoy missing bedtime, but I don't see how that's going to scar my kid for life.

I clearly don't love this setup and want to leave, but I don't get blaming it on my husband.

I'm one of the PPs who said your husband needs to step up. I SAH; DH is a big law partner. I've worked, then worked part-time, then worked from home, then SAH full time, so we've been through it all. When I decided to SAH full-time my sister was horrified and I remember her clearly saying to me that spouses need to contribute 50/50 on the job front and at home. This was easy for her to say, however, because she and her DH have the exact same career which they both enjoy, and they each make the same amount of money. What complicates the matter is when one partner is making much more money, has a more demanding career, and/or is more passionate about their career than the other. In our case (which is not yours), DH made orders of magnitude more money, spent a lot more time working, and found his career far more fulfilling and enjoyable than I found mine. We still believe we are contributing to our family 50/50, but I contribute more in time (including time not spent with the kids, like time managing our budget or maintaining the house or other boring tasks) and he contributes more in money. Both are valuable.

I'm certainly not "blaming" your husband. It is an awesome situation when two partners can equally contribute at home and equally bring in the money, and you can't really expect a spouse to do more than 50%. But I have seen first hand that there are many men who genuinely enjoy big law, and they are able to enjoy it because they aren't doing anywhere close to 50% (or even 20%) of the childcare or housework or (above all) the mental work of having a family. These men manage to have a strong relationship with their kids, come home for dinner/bedtime most nights, are equally involved with the kids' activities. But they don't bear the "mental load" that the women in big law typically do. So often the woman - whether she works a demanding job or not - is in charge of hiring the nanny, managing the au pair. She keeps track of the kids schedules, she keeps track of the grocery lists, even if they then order online or give the list to a housekeeper. Even when you outsource a lot, there's still a mental component that women almost always do.

That's the difference between those who are happy (mostly men) in big law and those who aren't. My DH (who btw loves his job, but says he'd leave in a heartbeat if I were no longer able or interested in doing what I do at home) shows up and is present with our family and our kids (often more mentally present than I am, to be honest), but he literally never thinks about paying a bill or buying toilet paper or what we're having for dinner. He never, ever spends mental energy on planning a vacation (though we discuss it on our weekly dates!) or how our investments are doing or whether a child should sign up for soccer. He went grocery shopping the other day and he realized it's been years since he's been to the grocery store unless it was to stop in and buy something for fun. He doesn't handle car repairs, or fixing our dishwasher, or yard work. He doesn't even know who we hire to mow our lawn or how much it costs. He doesn't know when I schedule our babysitter to come, and he doesn't know whether she's coming so I can go to the doctor or so I can take personal time. He is super present with the kids and knows what they like and don't like and is great at spending focused time with them. When I put family events on his calendar like soccer games or teacher conferences, he blocks it off and can show up without difficulty 95% of the time. When an issue comes up with the kids, we discuss it, and we come up with parenting decisions together. But he does not handle ANY of the mental work of having a home and a family. And this gives him the mental space to enjoy his job.

Anyway, it sounds like your spouse is solidly contributing his 50% to the family and home, which is great. In fact, it seems like he's probably contributing much more than 50%. But to be even remotely happy in big law, you need a spouse who does EVEN MORE than that at home, whether in terms of actual childcare and housework, OR in terms of being in charge of hiring the nanny / au pair so that you DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. The fact that you are on here trying to figure out what to do indicates that the responsibility hasn't been shifted to your spouse, and it's that shift in responsibility that allows people (mostly men) to be happy in demanding careers like big law.

I'm not saying what you or your DH should do, because I get that this kind of set up only works when both partners want it; the person working has to be okay letting go of being the primary caregiver, and the person who is the default parent has to be okay with doing a lot of thankless work for the home and family. But if you want to know how other people manage to be happy working in big law, this is how.

This is your fault. You’re enabling him.

I don’t even know where to begin. Stop buying toilet paper. Tell him there are certain things he is charge of. Don’t do anything he’s in charge of. When he asks what’s for dinner respond with, “not sure. What are you planning?” Don’t repair broken appliances. Don’t arrange someone to mow your lawn. Seriously stop doing all of this crap. Pretend you’re your husband for a few weeks and see what happens. He is taking advantage of you.

Sorry but women are partially to blame for getting into a situation where you do everything and all of the mental labor.

The only mental labor I do more of than my husband is - clothing for kids, vacations and babysitters. I’m considering dropping the second since vacations with kids are terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am now a government lawyer but spent a decade in biglaw, and had 2 kids during that time.  You do not need to quit, and you can do this!

Definitely switch to drop offs and have your husband handle pick ups.  I was lucky - I had a husband who worked but with a much more flexible schedule.  Both kids were in daycare and my husband almost always did pickups.  That was key.  In my experience, most folks in biglaw don't come in early (although I think people come in earlier in DC than NYC), so even if you go to work super early no one will know and instead will see you leaving at 5.  It doesn't matter what the junior associates think but when more senior people come in late, you will inevitably get emails in the afternoon that you have to deal with by the end of the day.  Five pm is just too early.  I've been a government lawyer for over 5 years, and I still don't leave at 5 (I guess many do, but I've never had a position where that's an option).  

This may be unpopular, but as others have noted you shouldn't worry too much about missing bedtime.  You should plan to leave early-ish on Friday nights and spend weekends with the baby, but Monday - Thursday let your husband handle bedtime so you can get your work done.  

Longer term, think about moving close to work if that's at all an option.  It took me close to an hour and half to get to work with daycare drop off  and it would have been great to live closer.  So if you are renting, I'd think about moving closer.  Also, and you probably are already doing this, but do all your grocery and baby shopping online, hire a cleaning person, have meals delivered, laundry picked up, etc. - outsource as much as you can.  Even with student loan debt, your salary should afford you some room to throw money at the problem.  It can help.  And if you keep daycare and don't switch to the nanny, the cost difference could cover these extra expenses.

Before considering a reduced hours schedule, I would do a lot of research about how part-time schedules work at your firm and whether it works for your practice area.  I tried going 80% with my first kid and it wasn't worth it.  At my firm, they paid you 80% during the year and if at the end of the year you worked more than 80% of the average of your class year, they paid you the difference.  I worked 110% that year.  So I basically just got deferred comp with no interest.  However, there are some practice groups where I suppose it could work.  I was a litigator and it's not really possible IMO.  Also, maybe firms are more progressive on this issue now, but for me the mommy-track perception was real for those on reduced hours.

For those telling you to quit, if you want to quit of course you can. But it's really too early to tell if you need to and you want to set yourself up for the next job.  Good luck!

And yet ... you quit, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Do you work? (Just curious)

Yes but not in law. I asked him overall to consider all women lawyers in all levels over many years time and tell me what he thought. His reply matched that of an older but more well researched article in NYT about women lawyers. He said/ it said: men and women in law about equal in number as associates. The number of women drop off as they go upwards in the law firm steps. He was unable (his experience) to name a single senior woman partner who had children. Of the senior women partners that he knew he felt that these women were much, much more intelligent in law than the average male partner and also that they were faster/ more efficient. One persons opinion. I laughed because it’s a cliche. But cliches always have some truth.

Law is a very feminine profession. Lots of organization, emotional labor, and taking the supporting role to your client. A lot of men deal with the inherent emasculinization in sad, small, petty ways.

DP. Some practice areas have become quite feminized indeed. Think...employment law, to take one example. Men tend to avoid those areas because it’s an ironclad rule of life that when a job becomes too feminized men perceive it as lacking in prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hire out everything, including meal planning/prep. Let DH take care of baby afterwork so you can focus on handling those annoying emails. Big Law is tough but pays well, so if you need that money and want the brass ring, you need to pay to play.

Crazy thought: maybe OP actually WANTS to spend time with her infant?

Then quit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Do you work? (Just curious)

Yes but not in law. I asked him overall to consider all women lawyers in all levels over many years time and tell me what he thought. His reply matched that of an older but more well researched article in NYT about women lawyers. He said/ it said: men and women in law about equal in number as associates. The number of women drop off as they go upwards in the law firm steps. He was unable (his experience) to name a single senior woman partner who had children. Of the senior women partners that he knew he felt that these women were much, much more intelligent in law than the average male partner and also that they were faster/ more efficient. One persons opinion. I laughed because it’s a cliche. But cliches always have some truth.

Law is a very feminine profession. Lots of organization, emotional labor, and taking the supporting role to your client. A lot of men deal with the inherent emasculinization in sad, small, petty ways.

DP. Some practice areas have become quite feminized indeed. Think...employment law, to take one example. Men tend to avoid those areas because it’s an ironclad rule of life that when a job becomes too feminized men perceive it as lacking in prestige.

Nah. I’m a trial lawyer. It’s feminine AF. Husband is a SC litigator. Soooo feminine. Deal lawyers? The scoldy “wife” role to the masculine business bros.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hire out everything, including meal planning/prep. Let DH take care of baby afterwork so you can focus on handling those annoying emails. Big Law is tough but pays well, so if you need that money and want the brass ring, you need to pay to play.

You could probably make more being a successful plumber in this area working half the hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Do you work? (Just curious)

Yes but not in law. I asked him overall to consider all women lawyers in all levels over many years time and tell me what he thought. His reply matched that of an older but more well researched article in NYT about women lawyers. He said/ it said: men and women in law about equal in number as associates. The number of women drop off as they go upwards in the law firm steps. He was unable (his experience) to name a single senior woman partner who had children. Of the senior women partners that he knew he felt that these women were much, much more intelligent in law than the average male partner and also that they were faster/ more efficient. One persons opinion. I laughed because it’s a cliche. But cliches always have some truth.

Law is a very feminine profession. Lots of organization, emotional labor, and taking the supporting role to your client. A lot of men deal with the inherent emasculinization in sad, small, petty ways.

DP. Some practice areas have become quite feminized indeed. Think...employment law, to take one example. Men tend to avoid those areas because it’s an ironclad rule of life that when a job becomes too feminized men perceive it as lacking in prestige.

Nah. I’m a trial lawyer. It’s feminine AF. Husband is a SC litigator. Soooo feminine. Deal lawyers? The scoldy “wife” role to the masculine business bros.

i’m not following.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thanks for all of the advice/supportive comments. I'm still working through them.

Want to note one thing - I have no desire to make partner. Zero. I want to pay back my loans and learn as much as I can before going to the next thing.

keep your eye on the prize lady. do it.

This is real light at the end of the tunnel! I agree that this is by far the hardest time to be juggling everything, but you're making serious progress on your loan and that's no small thing! I agree with everyone saying you should get a nanny or maybe an evening helper depending on your and your DH's schedules. Just outsource to get through this last slog.

+ 1

The good news is your baby won’t remember this time period any way. So honestly, it’s better to work long hours now than when they’re a bit older (pre-k +) and really want to spend time with you.

Just envision your future now...

You’ve gotten rid of your shackles ... err student loans.

You have a baller big law resume to shop around (in house, smaller firm, DOJ)?? The world is your working mom oyster.

You are DONE pumping (yay!!). Kid is sleeping (mostly). Kid stays up later so you can really enjoy family time in the evenings.

It will get so.much.better.

Lord, the justification. Her baby won't remember it consciously but if you think never having parents around and/or having stressed parents has zero effect on your child, you're projecting your hopes about your own situation. That's not reality. OP's DH needs to step up or this can't continue. I vote for him stepping it up.

OP. I'm ALL FOR husbands doing their fair share, but I'm not understanding the few comments in this thread telling him to step it up. I don't see where he's lacking. Yesterday I decided to take the advice on this thread and work late one night. I did drop off so he could get to work a little earlier to do pick up. He picked up, fed the kid leftovers from a meal he cooked her the day before, gave her a bath, put her to bed, and when I got home around 9:30 had dinner waiting for me. I ate, we talked for a bit, and then I did a little more work while he cleaned the kitchen. What do you want him to do?

I guess this could be every night, and I'm pretty sure he'd do that, but as noted earlier I was trying to do the pickups so I could get some time in before bedtime. On those days, I don't see her any less than anyone doing a 9-5.

But I am starting the think missing bed time once or twice a week to stay late is more manageable. I did about the same amount of work but got a couple more hours sleep. I don't enjoy missing bedtime, but I don't see how that's going to scar my kid for life.

I clearly don't love this setup and want to leave, but I don't get blaming it on my husband.

I'm one of the PPs who said your husband needs to step up. I SAH; DH is a big law partner. I've worked, then worked part-time, then worked from home, then SAH full time, so we've been through it all. When I decided to SAH full-time my sister was horrified and I remember her clearly saying to me that spouses need to contribute 50/50 on the job front and at home. This was easy for her to say, however, because she and her DH have the exact same career which they both enjoy, and they each make the same amount of money. What complicates the matter is when one partner is making much more money, has a more demanding career, and/or is more passionate about their career than the other. In our case (which is not yours), DH made orders of magnitude more money, spent a lot more time working, and found his career far more fulfilling and enjoyable than I found mine. We still believe we are contributing to our family 50/50, but I contribute more in time (including time not spent with the kids, like time managing our budget or maintaining the house or other boring tasks) and he contributes more in money. Both are valuable.

I'm certainly not "blaming" your husband. It is an awesome situation when two partners can equally contribute at home and equally bring in the money, and you can't really expect a spouse to do more than 50%. But I have seen first hand that there are many men who genuinely enjoy big law, and they are able to enjoy it because they aren't doing anywhere close to 50% (or even 20%) of the childcare or housework or (above all) the mental work of having a family. These men manage to have a strong relationship with their kids, come home for dinner/bedtime most nights, are equally involved with the kids' activities. But they don't bear the "mental load" that the women in big law typically do. So often the woman - whether she works a demanding job or not - is in charge of hiring the nanny, managing the au pair. She keeps track of the kids schedules, she keeps track of the grocery lists, even if they then order online or give the list to a housekeeper. Even when you outsource a lot, there's still a mental component that women almost always do.

That's the difference between those who are happy (mostly men) in big law and those who aren't. My DH (who btw loves his job, but says he'd leave in a heartbeat if I were no longer able or interested in doing what I do at home) shows up and is present with our family and our kids (often more mentally present than I am, to be honest), but he literally never thinks about paying a bill or buying toilet paper or what we're having for dinner. He never, ever spends mental energy on planning a vacation (though we discuss it on our weekly dates!) or how our investments are doing or whether a child should sign up for soccer. He went grocery shopping the other day and he realized it's been years since he's been to the grocery store unless it was to stop in and buy something for fun. He doesn't handle car repairs, or fixing our dishwasher, or yard work. He doesn't even know who we hire to mow our lawn or how much it costs. He doesn't know when I schedule our babysitter to come, and he doesn't know whether she's coming so I can go to the doctor or so I can take personal time. He is super present with the kids and knows what they like and don't like and is great at spending focused time with them. When I put family events on his calendar like soccer games or teacher conferences, he blocks it off and can show up without difficulty 95% of the time. When an issue comes up with the kids, we discuss it, and we come up with parenting decisions together. But he does not handle ANY of the mental work of having a home and a family. And this gives him the mental space to enjoy his job.

Anyway, it sounds like your spouse is solidly contributing his 50% to the family and home, which is great. In fact, it seems like he's probably contributing much more than 50%. But to be even remotely happy in big law, you need a spouse who does EVEN MORE than that at home, whether in terms of actual childcare and housework, OR in terms of being in charge of hiring the nanny / au pair so that you DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. The fact that you are on here trying to figure out what to do indicates that the responsibility hasn't been shifted to your spouse, and it's that shift in responsibility that allows people (mostly men) to be happy in demanding careers like big law.

I'm not saying what you or your DH should do, because I get that this kind of set up only works when both partners want it; the person working has to be okay letting go of being the primary caregiver, and the person who is the default parent has to be okay with doing a lot of thankless work for the home and family. But if you want to know how other people manage to be happy working in big law, this is how.

OP. I appreciate this, but I do think it misses the mark. My husband does pick up a huge portion of the mental load. He does the shopping, schedules/attends doctors appointments, preps bottles, schedules our monthly deep cleaner, etc. I do some stuff around the house - laundry, because I enjoy it (no, really), occasional straightening up - but I have no problem with that. And I think I would feel resentful of him trying to manage my life any more than he does. It's really, really not a home problem. I don't want him to do ALL of the work or every bed time or prepare all of the baby's meals. My problem is not being able to carve out any time for peace from work. To be perfectly honest, my husband does A LOT and my baby is generally very easy, so this is more of a general problem with biglaw - though I'm feeling it now more than before because it's more important to me now to have uninterrupted time with my kid. And, in the past, when I had some time off on the weekends I could veg out a little. Now, between baby and work, there is zero free time. I really don't see anything my husband can do to change that.

That said, this is not forever. I think that perspective has helped a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Do you work? (Just curious)

Yes but not in law. I asked him overall to consider all women lawyers in all levels over many years time and tell me what he thought. His reply matched that of an older but more well researched article in NYT about women lawyers. He said/ it said: men and women in law about equal in number as associates. The number of women drop off as they go upwards in the law firm steps. He was unable (his experience) to name a single senior woman partner who had children. Of the senior women partners that he knew he felt that these women were much, much more intelligent in law than the average male partner and also that they were faster/ more efficient. One persons opinion. I laughed because it’s a cliche. But cliches always have some truth.

Law is a very feminine profession. Lots of organization, emotional labor, and taking the supporting role to your client. A lot of men deal with the inherent emasculinization in sad, small, petty ways.

DP. Some practice areas have become quite feminized indeed. Think...employment law, to take one example. Men tend to avoid those areas because it’s an ironclad rule of life that when a job becomes too feminized men perceive it as lacking in prestige.

Nah. I’m a trial lawyer. It’s feminine AF. Husband is a SC litigator. Soooo feminine. Deal lawyers? The scoldy “wife” role to the masculine business bros.

i’m not following.

The tippy tops of prestige are still insanely feminine. SC = Supreme Court. Do men do these jobs? Sure, though women have taken over top roles more than other similar fields. But there’s no denying those men are doing feminine work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Not to be a dick, but this sounds a lot like what some over confident guy who doesn't get much work because he's not in demand would say.

No, there's truth to this. I once worked for an absolutely brilliant partner who was incredibly fast and efficient. He could do work in half the time it took other people so he got a huge amount done in 9-5 hours and never worked at night. I watched him take a case in a somewhat esoteric subject area new to him, read up on it over the weekend, and correct the subject matter expert by Monday. Meanwhile I was still struggling through the first chapters defining what various economic terms meant, and while I don't claim to be the biggest brain out there, I am pretty smart and usually pick things up quickly. But nothing like this guy. He was legitimately brilliant.

For the rest of us who are merely smart and work hard, the work takes time. Time is what you don't have once you have kids.

[Anonymous]

Off to the federal government, then. Where the pay is lower, but the telework at many places is great (three to four days a week), and the hours don’t really need to ever exceed 9:00 until 5:30 (unless you’re at DOJ). Plus, rejects from big law get treated very well and fast tracked. Seriously. There’s no shame in it. Loan forgiveness too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Do you work? (Just curious)

Yes but not in law. I asked him overall to consider all women lawyers in all levels over many years time and tell me what he thought. His reply matched that of an older but more well researched article in NYT about women lawyers. He said/ it said: men and women in law about equal in number as associates. The number of women drop off as they go upwards in the law firm steps. He was unable (his experience) to name a single senior woman partner who had children. Of the senior women partners that he knew he felt that these women were much, much more intelligent in law than the average male partner and also that they were faster/ more efficient. One persons opinion. I laughed because it’s a cliche. But cliches always have some truth.

Law is a very feminine profession. Lots of organization, emotional labor, and taking the supporting role to your client. A lot of men deal with the inherent emasculinization in sad, small, petty ways.

DP. Some practice areas have become quite feminized indeed. Think...employment law, to take one example. Men tend to avoid those areas because it’s an ironclad rule of life that when a job becomes too feminized men perceive it as lacking in prestige.

Nah. I’m a trial lawyer. It’s feminine AF. Husband is a SC litigator. Soooo feminine. Deal lawyers? The scoldy “wife” role to the masculine business bros.

i’m not following.

The tippy tops of prestige are still insanely feminine. SC = Supreme Court. Do men do these jobs? Sure, though women have taken over top roles more than other similar fields. But there’s no denying those men are doing feminine work.

Those who can, do ... those who can’t, practice law. It’s lots of reading and writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAHA I showed this thread to my BigLaw DH and he said it helps if you are a brilliant lawyer. Thames a bit less time to do the work.

Not to be a dick, but this sounds a lot like what some over confident guy who doesn't get much work because he's not in demand would say.

No, there's truth to this. I once worked for an absolutely brilliant partner who was incredibly fast and efficient. He could do work in half the time it took other people so he got a huge amount done in 9-5 hours and never worked at night. I watched him take a case in a somewhat esoteric subject area new to him, read up on it over the weekend, and correct the subject matter expert by Monday. Meanwhile I was still struggling through the first chapters defining what various economic terms meant, and while I don't claim to be the biggest brain out there, I am pretty smart and usually pick things up quickly. But nothing like this guy. He was legitimately brilliant.

For the rest of us who are merely smart and work hard, the work takes time. Time is what you don't have once you have kids.

Okay but I'm gotten 50 emails since 6 pm so I don't think working at night is because I'm not smart enough.