The insanity of 1%er East Coast parents and college

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.

People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.

it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING

By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?

less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.

Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.

I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.

It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.

No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.

no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.

Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.

Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.

Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.

But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.

Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.

Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.

Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.

That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.

yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.

That's where I think many have issues

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

The only “achievement” you mentioned is wealth.

DP. But what did you achieve? Do share!

Not the PP but I was from a broken single-parent home and went to an elite college on full pell grants and lots of aid. Like a couple other PPs I worked hard to make a better future. I had 99th %ile SAT scores and was Salutatorian, no FGLI boost back then. I have plenty of money, alas based on google I am not the vaunted "1%" income this thread refers to. I am however very wealthy and am full pay for my kids. The $ is not why I am proud. I am proud of what I achieved because I am a doctor and the head of my division. My spouse who was also poor is now a lawyer at a top firm. They worked hard as well to get where they have gotten, but our elite school was a huge part of our success. The support and structured advice we got there was immeasurable. Once we knew our children had the academic capacity and raw intelligence mixed with drive to have a good shot at a T20, of course we moved them to the top private school and encouraged them. Of course they did not need tutors or any fake EC/nonprofit-starting or anything like DCUM people do. Rather we encouraged them to be their own best, put energy into ECs they enjoyed, and be resilient. We did not want elites for $, rather for the same benefits we got: super smart peers, faculty who care and encourage all students, and every door open to them with more resources than imaginable. My kids are at T10/ivies and will likely go into medicine and a phD, which are not top-1% lucrative, and we could not care less. They can teach high school if they want, we do not care! The point is to get the best education and a leg up to get into any career, and the elites provide that. From my point of view elites are about exposure to to brilliance and endless possibilities. Luckily these schools are more socioeconomically diverse and more welcoming places to poor kids these days. Financial aid kids from public schools were a minority back in '91 and '93. There was never desperation on our part, just encouragement to try for the best. We considered anywhere in the T30ish to be a huge win, it was not top10 or bust

the elite colleges are not economically diverse.

They are now 'rich and poor'--which is diverse but misses the middle. Ivies/Hopkins--HHI under $150-200k are free. Donut holes ($175k-300kHHI) can't stomach $90k/year (unless education was a huge priority and many, many lifestyle sacrifices). Rest are rich families--or rich grandparents paying for it.

The elite colleges are much more economically diverse than they used to be and the elite colleges are the most economically diverse of all colleges out there. They have super poor all the way up to top 0.1% and they give the most aid to the UMC-not-poor 150k-250k folks.
270k HHI and we get some financial aid from the ivy our kid attends. DC got into 3 T15/ivy schools and the highest ranked one gave the best aid. Below T15 gave none. We are not at all poor. Yet we get aid. People with 200k or less go for FREE. The group between 200 and about 280k get some need base aid depending on assets. There is no world in which making in the 200s is POOR. Come off it and get perspective from real poor people, or those of us who grew up poor, ie well below median household income.

It’s not about being rich or poor. It’s about college affordability.

Even at $300k income Princeton (most generous Ivy) cost with aid comes to
$50k per year. That’s $200k+ for an undergrad degree for ONE child. That’s still too much if you’re in HCOL area family of 5 earning $300k (and didn’t start at $300k 10+ years ago). It used to be a student could work their way through college. That is no longer true. It’s out of control and fueled by parents who are willing to pay literally anything to have a prestigious bumper sticker on their Volvo.

And let’s not forget about easy govt loans … the Parent Plus loan crisis is coming…

So those of us who make around 300k, and get little to no aid, and somehow live in the HCOL DMV area and yet still have managed to afford full pay for 3 kids are what? Magic? Nah you are just bitter because you did not have a savings plan or you could not cut the vacations and fancy cars/fancy club fees. Full pay or close to full pay is a lot, but that is what the market demands, the top schools give more aid than anyone else, and just because we qualify for almost none does not make me bitter. I planned long ago that we would find a way to send them to any elite they got accepted to. It was clear then how much this would be: we started cutting and saving when we made 110k together and the mortgage was half our take home pay.
By the way my ivy kid does work a lot(their choice), to the tune of $6000 a semester for paid research and TAship, and most of their ivy peers have paid summer internships of 8k-10k. We let them spend or save it how they want, but many of their peers use it to help their parents w tuition. There are a lot of thrifty kids at the school. My older one went for cheaper (instate virginia) yet there were absolutely no paid resume-building jobs on campus. They worked for free in a lab. That one cost less for undergrad so we are helping them with law school. We had a plan and have extra cash from what they did not spend. The 3rd is likely going to an ivy-tier 90k like the other one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.

Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.

Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.

That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.

yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.

That's where I think many have issues

These are 17/18 year olds who are in many cases getting the first real rejections of their (privileged) lives. It is ok for them to feel disappointed. It’s ok for them to be silly (as seen from an adult’s perspective). Barring mental health issues, they will get over it and learn from the experience. And build resilience.

Teens feel things intensely. Do you remember waiting for a phone call from that guy who you thought might ask you to prom? And being devastated when he didn’t call? I look back on that reaction and wonder what the heck was wrong with me. Why didn’t I call him? Who really cared? But at that time it was all consuming.

Celebrate your kids. This intensity of desires and needs is what drives humanity forward.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.

Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.

Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.

That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.

yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.

That's where I think many have issues

Who said anyone was putting anyone else down, and certainly any good kind kid would know how to be grateful and humble. What was said to PP is it is ok for the parent and the kid to be disappointed in having to go to a backup, whatever that backup school is. I would have been sad for mine, privately. I am glad I did not have to be. It is ok and appropriate to meet a disappointed kid where they are and slowly help them get some perspective as they recover from a rejection.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.

Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.

Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.

That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.

yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.

That's where I think many have issues

Im the pp who said my kid would be disappointed with UVA. I would not go on about this to anyone even if I am a nervous wreck.

I have 3 kids. My oldest is my super high achieving kid. He is definitely ivy material. My middle child loves sports and may like a huge school like UMich.

I don’t think this has anything to do with being at top 1%. I see parents at sporting events like this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.

People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.

it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING

By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?

less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.

Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.

I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.

It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.

No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.

no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.

Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.

Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.

Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.

But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.

Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.

Well. Said. Bravo!

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.

People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.

it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING

By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?

less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.

Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.

I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.

It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.

No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.

no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.

Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.

Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.

Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.

But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.

Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.

I totally hear you and wholeheartedly agree. I have my oldest who is a highly motivated kid. My second kid is smart but academics is not his priority. I don’t get jealous of other kids who are smarter. I’m proud of my friends’ kids. I cheer them up and genuinely happy for them. I don’t always feel others feel the same for me and my kids. I try not to come off as bragging because my kids are accomplished and excel in many areas.

My daughter is also a dancer and not especially good. We just came back from her holiday dance recital and we had a great time. I know friends with kids in competitive dance, cheer and gymnastics. They compete at elite levels. I’m not jealous. I think they are so talented.

[Anonymous]

Finally some voices of reason. I still have my popcorn popped, though, because y’all are way outnumbered by the neurotic, pretentious, keeping up with the Joneses DCUMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.

Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.

Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.

That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.

yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.

That's where I think many have issues

These are 17/18 year olds who are in many cases getting the first real rejections of their (privileged) lives. It is ok for them to feel disappointed. It’s ok for them to be silly (as seen from an adult’s perspective). Barring mental health issues, they will get over it and learn from the experience. And build resilience.

Teens feel things intensely. Do you remember waiting for a phone call from that guy who you thought might ask you to prom? And being devastated when he didn’t call? I look back on that reaction and wonder what the heck was wrong with me. Why didn’t I call him? Who really cared? But at that time it was all consuming.

Celebrate your kids. This intensity of desires and needs is what drives humanity forward.

yes, celebrate your kids. But as parents, we can do a better job of preparing them for the college process. My kids knew that reaches were just that. For the one, it was T30 schools with single digit acceptance rates. So they knew that while they have the stats, so do 90%+ of those applying, yet 90%+ won't get an acceptance. So we helped them focus on a balanced list of reaches, targets and safeties. They ended up deciding between their top 2 targets and their top safety (Such a gem of a school that it remained in final contention). So yes they were disappointed to not get into their 3 reaches, but they knew it was not a reflection on them. After 24 hours, they moved on and focused on the schools that wante them. (And in reality, where they are attending is actually a better fit for them, their personality and their interests outside of their major, along with being awesome for their major). Partly because we had helped prepare them(as parents and the CC) that this was a long shot for all the reaches.

So yes, I get that teens are dramatic, but some of that is because we help them build up these dream schools and don't help them realize the reality, that it's a crap shoot when acceptance rates are 5-7%. So just like I let my kids be disappointed with their relationships and friendships, I also didn't let them mope around the house if a Guy/Girl didn't call and make the whole family miserable for a week. They still had to come join the family for dinner, or game night or whatever was going on. Just like we adults don't allow a bad day at work to leave us sulking and treating our family like crap, we also encourage our teens to feel their feelings but then also move on.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.

People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.

it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING

By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?

less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.

Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.

I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.

It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.

No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.

no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.

Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.

Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.

Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.

But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.

Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.

It’s you, you’re the problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.

People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.

it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING

By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?

less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.

Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.

I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.

It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.

No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.

no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.

Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.

Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.

Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.

But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.

Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.

I totally hear you and wholeheartedly agree. I have my oldest who is a highly motivated kid. My second kid is smart but academics is not his priority. I don’t get jealous of other kids who are smarter. I’m proud of my friends’ kids. I cheer them up and genuinely happy for them. I don’t always feel others feel the same for me and my kids. I try not to come off as bragging because my kids are accomplished and excel in many areas.

My daughter is also a dancer and not especially good. We just came back from her holiday dance recital and we had a great time. I know friends with kids in competitive dance, cheer and gymnastics. They compete at elite levels. I’m not jealous. I think they are so talented.

That kid (above) did competitive dance for 8+ years. The first time (senior year) my kid finally got the highest award (think 292+ out of 300 points---every comp calls it something different) for her solo, the entire dance studio was cheering for her, the loudest were her 4 besties. She's talented but not nearly as much as most competitive dancers. But she loved it and made lifelong friends from it (and most of my good friends are moms of her friends---so it's a family) But we had a few talented kids who thought they were better than others (and were good but not that good) and the kids quickly realized they were the nasty, back stabbing kids and amazingly most kids didn't want to be friends with them (never knew when they would turn on you). Same for their moms (apple typically doesn't fall far from the tree). The rest of us cheered on every kid, especially those who dont always have the "tippy top".
My kid utimatley chose a university that encourages her to dance. In fact, 12 credits of dance fulfills 2/3 of her "core curriculum". So I think that's a plus over the T25 schools she "wanted to attend".

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Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.

People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.

it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING

By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?

less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.

Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.

I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.

It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.

No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.

no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.

Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.

Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.

Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.

But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.

Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.

It’s you, you’re the problem

PP sounds like a very secure person.

It is natural to feel nervous or anxious. Some people are worse than others. I may worry or feel nervous at home. I do not show this to others.

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Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.

True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.

NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.

The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.

We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.

Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.

I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.

No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.

How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.

OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.

It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.

People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.

it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING

By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?

less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.

Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.

I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.

It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.

No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.

no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.

Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.

Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.

Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.

But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.

Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.

I totally hear you and wholeheartedly agree. I have my oldest who is a highly motivated kid. My second kid is smart but academics is not his priority. I don’t get jealous of other kids who are smarter. I’m proud of my friends’ kids. I cheer them up and genuinely happy for them. I don’t always feel others feel the same for me and my kids. I try not to come off as bragging because my kids are accomplished and excel in many areas.

My daughter is also a dancer and not especially good. We just came back from her holiday dance recital and we had a great time. I know friends with kids in competitive dance, cheer and gymnastics. They compete at elite levels. I’m not jealous. I think they are so talented.

That kid (above) did competitive dance for 8+ years. The first time (senior year) my kid finally got the highest award (think 292+ out of 300 points---every comp calls it something different) for her solo, the entire dance studio was cheering for her, the loudest were her 4 besties. She's talented but not nearly as much as most competitive dancers. But she loved it and made lifelong friends from it (and most of my good friends are moms of her friends---so it's a family) But we had a few talented kids who thought they were better than others (and were good but not that good) and the kids quickly realized they were the nasty, back stabbing kids and amazingly most kids didn't want to be friends with them (never knew when they would turn on you). Same for their moms (apple typically doesn't fall far from the tree). The rest of us cheered on every kid, especially those who dont always have the "tippy top".
My kid utimatley chose a university that encourages her to dance. In fact, 12 credits of dance fulfills 2/3 of her "core curriculum". So I think that's a plus over the T25 schools she "wanted to attend".

The bolded is what we’re talking about ma’am. That’s you and the other mommies who are disappointed and possibly even embarrassed that your child opts to attend what you consider a “lesser” school (because of course it’s a choice for *your* kid - she just wants to dance, after all!).

And of course you cheer for your kids’ friends when *they* get accepted to such a school. It’s obviously good enough for those dingbats! Those kids should be so proud!

I suggest you look up “condescending” before continuing to pat yourself on the back for how amazingly supportive you are.

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Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.

Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.

Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.

That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.

yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.

That's where I think many have issues

These are 17/18 year olds who are in many cases getting the first real rejections of their (privileged) lives. It is ok for them to feel disappointed. It’s ok for them to be silly (as seen from an adult’s perspective). Barring mental health issues, they will get over it and learn from the experience. And build resilience.

Teens feel things intensely. Do you remember waiting for a phone call from that guy who you thought might ask you to prom? And being devastated when he didn’t call? I look back on that reaction and wonder what the heck was wrong with me. Why didn’t I call him? Who really cared? But at that time it was all consuming.

Celebrate your kids. This intensity of desires and needs is what drives humanity forward.

yes, celebrate your kids. But as parents, we can do a better job of preparing them for the college process. My kids knew that reaches were just that. For the one, it was T30 schools with single digit acceptance rates. So they knew that while they have the stats, so do 90%+ of those applying, yet 90%+ won't get an acceptance. So we helped them focus on a balanced list of reaches, targets and safeties. They ended up deciding between their top 2 targets and their top safety (Such a gem of a school that it remained in final contention). So yes they were disappointed to not get into their 3 reaches, but they knew it was not a reflection on them. After 24 hours, they moved on and focused on the schools that wante them. (And in reality, where they are attending is actually a better fit for them, their personality and their interests outside of their major, along with being awesome for their major). Partly because we had helped prepare them(as parents and the CC) that this was a long shot for all the reaches.

So yes, I get that teens are dramatic, but some of that is because we help them build up these dream schools and don't help them realize the reality, that it's a crap shoot when acceptance rates are 5-7%. So just like I let my kids be disappointed with their relationships and friendships, I also didn't let them mope around the house if a Guy/Girl didn't call and make the whole family miserable for a week. They still had to come join the family for dinner, or game night or whatever was going on. Just like we adults don't allow a bad day at work to leave us sulking and treating our family like crap, we also encourage our teens to feel their feelings but then also move on.

This right here. It’s fine for the kids to be disappointed. But it’s the parents’ job (not just after, but long before) to make sure the kids have the perspective to understand how much more there is to this whole process. Including on how much more their success depends than just where they go to school.

I’m glad I live on the east coast now. But this obsessiveness with getting into certain schools (mostly because of rank or prestige) is such an east coast thing, and not in a good way.