Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.
Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.
Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.
That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.
yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.
That's where I think many have issues
These are 17/18 year olds who are in many cases getting the first real rejections of their (privileged) lives. It is ok for them to feel disappointed. It’s ok for them to be silly (as seen from an adult’s perspective). Barring mental health issues, they will get over it and learn from the experience. And build resilience.
Teens feel things intensely. Do you remember waiting for a phone call from that guy who you thought might ask you to prom? And being devastated when he didn’t call? I look back on that reaction and wonder what the heck was wrong with me. Why didn’t I call him? Who really cared? But at that time it was all consuming.
Celebrate your kids. This intensity of desires and needs is what drives humanity forward.
yes, celebrate your kids. But as parents, we can do a better job of preparing them for the college process. My kids knew that reaches were just that. For the one, it was T30 schools with single digit acceptance rates. So they knew that while they have the stats, so do 90%+ of those applying, yet 90%+ won't get an acceptance. So we helped them focus on a balanced list of reaches, targets and safeties. They ended up deciding between their top 2 targets and their top safety (Such a gem of a school that it remained in final contention). So yes they were disappointed to not get into their 3 reaches, but they knew it was not a reflection on them. After 24 hours, they moved on and focused on the schools that wante them. (And in reality, where they are attending is actually a better fit for them, their personality and their interests outside of their major, along with being awesome for their major). Partly because we had helped prepare them(as parents and the CC) that this was a long shot for all the reaches.
So yes, I get that teens are dramatic, but some of that is because we help them build up these dream schools and don't help them realize the reality, that it's a crap shoot when acceptance rates are 5-7%. So just like I let my kids be disappointed with their relationships and friendships, I also didn't let them mope around the house if a Guy/Girl didn't call and make the whole family miserable for a week. They still had to come join the family for dinner, or game night or whatever was going on. Just like we adults don't allow a bad day at work to leave us sulking and treating our family like crap, we also encourage our teens to feel their feelings but then also move on.
Do you really think you are the only parent who thought to do this? I mean the condescension is amazing. I have what you might call striver friends and I am sure you would call me names too. But like any parent who wants to support their child, I try to get them to do their best but also pick them up and comfort them when they don’t hit their goals. I talk to them about how if they are never disappointed, they aren’t shooting high enough. And model how to pick myself up and move on. But because they aren’t 30 year olds like your perfectly parented teens, they may take longer to bounce back than your kids. DD wants to take 2 weeks over Christmas break because her SCEA school rejected her? Go for it. But get in the rest of your apps, don’t take it out on your brother, and work your way out of the wallowing.
Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.
True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.
NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.
The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.
We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.
Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.
I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.
No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.
How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.
OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.
It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.
People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.
it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING
By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?
less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.
Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.
I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.
It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.
No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.
no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.
Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.
Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.
Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.
But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.
Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.
I totally hear you and wholeheartedly agree. I have my oldest who is a highly motivated kid. My second kid is smart but academics is not his priority. I don’t get jealous of other kids who are smarter. I’m proud of my friends’ kids. I cheer them up and genuinely happy for them. I don’t always feel others feel the same for me and my kids. I try not to come off as bragging because my kids are accomplished and excel in many areas.
My daughter is also a dancer and not especially good. We just came back from her holiday dance recital and we had a great time. I know friends with kids in competitive dance, cheer and gymnastics. They compete at elite levels. I’m not jealous. I think they are so talented.
That kid (above) did competitive dance for 8+ years. The first time (senior year) my kid finally got the highest award (think 292+ out of 300 points---every comp calls it something different) for her solo, the entire dance studio was cheering for her, the loudest were her 4 besties. She's talented but not nearly as much as most competitive dancers. But she loved it and made lifelong friends from it (and most of my good friends are moms of her friends---so it's a family) But we had a few talented kids who thought they were better than others (and were good but not that good) and the kids quickly realized they were the nasty, back stabbing kids and amazingly most kids didn't want to be friends with them (never knew when they would turn on you). Same for their moms (apple typically doesn't fall far from the tree). The rest of us cheered on every kid, especially those who dont always have the "tippy top".
My kid utimatley chose a university that encourages her to dance. In fact, 12 credits of dance fulfills 2/3 of her "core curriculum". So I think that's a plus over the T25 schools she "wanted to attend".
The bolded is what we’re talking about ma’am. That’s you and the other mommies who are disappointed and possibly even embarrassed that your child opts to attend what you consider a “lesser” school (because of course it’s a choice for *your* kid - she just wants to dance, after all!).
And of course you cheer for your kids’ friends when *they* get accepted to such a school. It’s obviously good enough for those dingbats! Those kids should be so proud!
I suggest you look up “condescending” before continuing to pat yourself on the back for how amazingly supportive you are.
Even just the amount of text PP spills on this show’s she’s definitely one of the parents I’m talking about. Farrrr to anxious.
I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.
True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.
NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.
The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.
We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.
Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.
I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.
No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.
How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.
OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.
It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.
People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.
it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING
By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?
less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.
Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.
I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.
It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.
No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.
no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.
Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.
Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.
Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.
But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.
Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.
I totally hear you and wholeheartedly agree. I have my oldest who is a highly motivated kid. My second kid is smart but academics is not his priority. I don’t get jealous of other kids who are smarter. I’m proud of my friends’ kids. I cheer them up and genuinely happy for them. I don’t always feel others feel the same for me and my kids. I try not to come off as bragging because my kids are accomplished and excel in many areas.
My daughter is also a dancer and not especially good. We just came back from her holiday dance recital and we had a great time. I know friends with kids in competitive dance, cheer and gymnastics. They compete at elite levels. I’m not jealous. I think they are so talented.
That kid (above) did competitive dance for 8+ years. The first time (senior year) my kid finally got the highest award (think 292+ out of 300 points---every comp calls it something different) for her solo, the entire dance studio was cheering for her, the loudest were her 4 besties. She's talented but not nearly as much as most competitive dancers. But she loved it and made lifelong friends from it (and most of my good friends are moms of her friends---so it's a family) But we had a few talented kids who thought they were better than others (and were good but not that good) and the kids quickly realized they were the nasty, back stabbing kids and amazingly most kids didn't want to be friends with them (never knew when they would turn on you). Same for their moms (apple typically doesn't fall far from the tree). The rest of us cheered on every kid, especially those who dont always have the "tippy top".
My kid utimatley chose a university that encourages her to dance. In fact, 12 credits of dance fulfills 2/3 of her "core curriculum". So I think that's a plus over the T25 schools she "wanted to attend".
The bolded is what we’re talking about ma’am. That’s you and the other mommies who are disappointed and possibly even embarrassed that your child opts to attend what you consider a “lesser” school (because of course it’s a choice for *your* kid - she just wants to dance, after all!).
And of course you cheer for your kids’ friends when *they* get accepted to such a school. It’s obviously good enough for those dingbats! Those kids should be so proud!
I suggest you look up “condescending” before continuing to pat yourself on the back for how amazingly supportive you are.
Wow---you are a piece of work! I support all my friends and their kids no matter what their path. One of my kids was aiming for schools in the 80-150 range---we were proud of their accomplishments and excited for their choices, even if it wasn't DCUM elite choices , as equal as we are of our kid who has the "resume for a T25" but didn't get into any. Most of my friends cannot afford T25/90K schools.
What we don't support is kids and parents being rude to others, and kids expecting to be tops, when they are not the most talented. Funny how, it is only a few kids, and those kids lost most of their friends in late HS from those attitudes, and nobody likes the moms either, because we don't do "nasty, taunting attitudes".
Anonymous wrote:I would secretly be upset if my child went to a state school. I would not openly freak out like OP is saying.
Your kid is non secretly upset with your parenting.
Actually my child has already said he does not want to go to UVA. He absolutely would also be upset if he did not get into a T10 school. I know how competitive it is so I’m trying to make him feel like he should be proud and happy to go to UVA.
That was us last year. I would have been sad for them if they only got UVA, which was definitely a safety for tehm as a Val of a top school. That is a very common feeling among the top 10% at our private, other than the Wahoo diehards. Many see UVa as settling. Which it is, kind of, as 22-25% of the graduating class gets into UVA each year. Across town about 5-6% get into UVA and those top kids are "happier" with that outcome because it is rare. Uva in state is not a rare outcome at many schools including top privates and top publics. Kids want to get in rare places. That is human nature.
yes it's human nature. But your kid should not put others down for "wanting UVA" or whatever school is their dream school. They should also not be overly disappointed/depressed for days if they don't get into their reaches. They should be able to see their future is still very bright because of who they are and their hard work.
That's where I think many have issues
These are 17/18 year olds who are in many cases getting the first real rejections of their (privileged) lives. It is ok for them to feel disappointed. It’s ok for them to be silly (as seen from an adult’s perspective). Barring mental health issues, they will get over it and learn from the experience. And build resilience.
Teens feel things intensely. Do you remember waiting for a phone call from that guy who you thought might ask you to prom? And being devastated when he didn’t call? I look back on that reaction and wonder what the heck was wrong with me. Why didn’t I call him? Who really cared? But at that time it was all consuming.
Celebrate your kids. This intensity of desires and needs is what drives humanity forward.
yes, celebrate your kids. But as parents, we can do a better job of preparing them for the college process. My kids knew that reaches were just that. For the one, it was T30 schools with single digit acceptance rates. So they knew that while they have the stats, so do 90%+ of those applying, yet 90%+ won't get an acceptance. So we helped them focus on a balanced list of reaches, targets and safeties. They ended up deciding between their top 2 targets and their top safety (Such a gem of a school that it remained in final contention). So yes they were disappointed to not get into their 3 reaches, but they knew it was not a reflection on them. After 24 hours, they moved on and focused on the schools that wante them. (And in reality, where they are attending is actually a better fit for them, their personality and their interests outside of their major, along with being awesome for their major). Partly because we had helped prepare them(as parents and the CC) that this was a long shot for all the reaches.
So yes, I get that teens are dramatic, but some of that is because we help them build up these dream schools and don't help them realize the reality, that it's a crap shoot when acceptance rates are 5-7%. So just like I let my kids be disappointed with their relationships and friendships, I also didn't let them mope around the house if a Guy/Girl didn't call and make the whole family miserable for a week. They still had to come join the family for dinner, or game night or whatever was going on. Just like we adults don't allow a bad day at work to leave us sulking and treating our family like crap, we also encourage our teens to feel their feelings but then also move on.
This right here. It’s fine for the kids to be disappointed. But it’s the parents’ job (not just after, but long before) to make sure the kids have the perspective to understand how much more there is to this whole process. Including on how much more their success depends than just where they go to school.
I’m glad I live on the east coast now. But this obsessiveness with getting into certain schools (mostly because of rank or prestige) is such an east coast thing, and not in a good way.
yes definately an "east coast thing". Now on the west coast (not CA) and it is much more laid back. Kids in MS/HS are much nicer overall, as the attitudes come directly from the parents, and overall the parents are not as obsessed about everything. It was kind of nice when we made the move.
Anonymous wrote:If you think this is limited to the 1% you have blinkers on.
True but the point is it’s most insane for the 1%ers.
NO. It is easier for 1%. The degree to which it is "most insane" is entirely a dynamic they magic out of their own neuroses and has absolutely ZERO to do with actual limitations on their options.
The 1%ers who choose to go the route of massive donations or spending enormous sums on private school/test prep/college advising/etc. in order to guarantee their kids entry into one of a very narrow range of schools are just being stupid. That's it. It's a stupid game akin to the billionaires who compete over who has the biggest yacht. Only worse because in this scenario their children are the yachts and their educations are being used in a d*ck-measuring contest. Gross. But not actually that hard to opt out of. Just don't.
We are in the top 1% or .5%. I grew up as a poor immigrant kid. I was equally focused, if not more, than my current high school student. Education was my ticket out of poverty. There was no back up plan. My rich kid can go to any school and will probably do fine.
Ambition and striving are popular to put down on DCUM. I wonder if this is what non ambitious say. I hear this in real life from adults who come from family money, but are unimpressive themselves or have unimpressive children. They call the achieving people strivers and look down on them.
I am proud of my achievements. I am proud of my children’s achievements.
No one has an issue with achievement. They have issues with the borderline mental breakdown-level of obsession with getting into certain institutions because those institutions are “elite” and convey “status.” And with the lack of perspective, especially amongst the parents who should know better, to understand that there are many, many successful people who didn’t go that route. Because ultimately it is just one small piece of the puzzle.
How do you know someone is having breakdown level obsession around getting into certain institutions? Honestly, it just reads like your own kids are not competitive, you gave up, some other parents and kids are still in the running and that equals mental breakdown. Nobody is breaking down about not getting into Harvard, ok. They will be upset for a few days if they expected it, then they will move on.
OP here. I posted this because I know a family literally claiming to be in crisis and falling apart over a kid who appears to be headed for a state college.
It’s in the moment. We all have dumb things we obsess over. Like you are mad at yourself for not getting a workout in. End of the world? No. But it can affect both your mood and your sense of self in the moment.
People who can worry about getting their kids into a T20 school seriously don’t have much to think about in the grand scheme of things. It’s natural for them to find something to hyper fixate on. Especially if you have the type of personality that has made you somewhat successful in life - that’s just how you process stuff. It’s fine.
it’s not actually fine though. It’s a horrible example for their kids, and it’s truly alienating for the less privileged who have to hear the ENDLESS WHINING
By that you mean the kids who didn't study as hard or didn't have supportive educational environments at home?
less access to money, to the “best” schools, SN involved … it runs the gamut. and to a certain extent yes, aptitude. The insane parents who can’t realize that in fact their kid is smart and hardworking and will be fine are annoying.
Ok I think I get what the pp is saying. I have the high stat kid who wants to attend a T10 school. If another parent has a kid who has UVA or VT as their top choice and my kid is already in or doesn’t seem happy about it, I can see it coming off as obnoxious, smug and/or annoying.
I have a younger kid who just started to play basketball. He did not make a competitive team last year. When other parents would talk about which team their kid passed up or suggest a team that sucks when my kid tried out for that team and didn’t get selected, I thought the parents were obnoxious and annoying.
It is more about your own child’s inadequacies. If your kid is an average student and you can’t pay for private college at 90k per year, that doesnt necessarily mean the kid who is valedictorian and either has rich parents who can full pay to Stanford should not try everything in their power to get their kid into Stanford or Princeton bc that kid’s potential may be greater.
No you’re still not getting it. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your kid’s Ivy chances when you know the other family’s kid won’t get that close. If you actually had to be told that you’re even further behind on perspective and social skills than I thought.
no, the point is, your kid aiming for the T10 is going to be fine wherever they end up. because they are smart and focused and especially if you also make 7 figures. so acting like it’s the only possible successful outcome is venal, annoying, and shallow.
Add me to those "not getting it" then. I agree with PP, it is tough when people brag, but if it is a friend who has a kid who has a realistic shot at T10/ivy and the parent is super nervous it won't work out, what is so hard about supporting that friend in their worry, whether or not there are other colleges that are "fine" and the kid will be "fine" at UVA or some other non-T10. Of course they will, and the friend will come to accept it if that happens, but of course they also want the best option for their kid. There can be strong fit preferences and favorites that all happen to be in that T10-15 type range. The undergrad size/peer quality/class size/availability of grad level courses as early as sophomore year does not necessarily exist in the "perfect" mix at other places. Just like if I had a friend who really wanted a northeast LAC with a specific peer mix: they would be "fine" at W&L but would be disappointed, understandably, if the top 5 in the NE did not work out. I have and will continue to support friends as they worry their kid will be disappointed or not find their people at schools not in their preferred group, whatever that is for that student. Students are most successful where they think they fit and that is different for all. For the kid who is sure the top schools are best for them, and maybe they are right, of course there is risk of huge disappointment given how hard acceptance is.
Why precisely does it make you so angry to have other parents very stressed over the college process? What about it makes it so hard for you to support a friend in their worry? Is it that you think they have $ privilege and that annoys you(many of my friends who did worry then kids got in to ivies are not rich at all by the way, and get some aid)? Is it that you think the kid does not deserve it(in my experience the students that clearly do not because they are rude or cheated often do not get in)? Or is it really that you just do not understand fit as a real issue? Sure you can make as much money from a lesser school, and can get into med or law from many schools. That is not often the point of these worried parents: they worry about fit for their kids, knowing that their kid will likely do best in a specific kind of environment. None that I have commiserated with have every mentioned being concerned Larlo will not make the same $.
Oh come on now. If your “good friend” is going on and on about how worried they are Larlo may be forced to settle for UVA, and meanwhile your kid’s best shot is GMU, that’s not going to be pleasant for long. Cheering your friend on when their kid gets into an Ivy? sure. But that’s very different from having to endure someone suggesting that the types of schools your kid is considering are the dregs of higher ed.
Well it's simple---I'm not actually friends with anyone like that. My real friends, and my kid's real friends, are 100% supportive of them They know when someone is talented and smart and has the drive. We also cheer on the friends who have to attend CC first (or do it in HS thru running start) and then 2 years at a university because that's all they can afford. We cheer on everyone, at whatever level they are at. And my friends whose kids are shooting for the 3rd ranked school in the state (that everyone with a 3.4+ gets into), well we cheer those kids on as well. Everyone has their own talents and strengths. I'm just happy that all of them are doing what they want to---attending college they can afford.
But if someone is upset my kid is smarter than theirs, then I tend not to want to associate with them (hint: my first kid is smart but think 3.5UW, no AP, 1220 SAT level, hated school and just knew they needed college and once they found a job they would excel---but that more job opportunities with a degree and kid 2 is 1500, 3.96UW, 10AP, striver, highly motivated and genuinely nice kid but definately used to achieving whatever they set their mind to) I don't like people who genuinely cannot support my kids, just like I support their kids. One kid was a dancer---all of their friends were "better dancers", yet we cheer everyone on no matter what their level. Those kids who didn't were not well liked by the others (yes we have a wonderful dance school that is unusual in that respect), and the mom's who were competitive and not nice quickly found nobody wanted to be around them or their kid.
Life is too short to surround yourself with people who are jealous and dont really support you or your kids.
I totally hear you and wholeheartedly agree. I have my oldest who is a highly motivated kid. My second kid is smart but academics is not his priority. I don’t get jealous of other kids who are smarter. I’m proud of my friends’ kids. I cheer them up and genuinely happy for them. I don’t always feel others feel the same for me and my kids. I try not to come off as bragging because my kids are accomplished and excel in many areas.
My daughter is also a dancer and not especially good. We just came back from her holiday dance recital and we had a great time. I know friends with kids in competitive dance, cheer and gymnastics. They compete at elite levels. I’m not jealous. I think they are so talented.
That kid (above) did competitive dance for 8+ years. The first time (senior year) my kid finally got the highest award (think 292+ out of 300 points---every comp calls it something different) for her solo, the entire dance studio was cheering for her, the loudest were her 4 besties. She's talented but not nearly as much as most competitive dancers. But she loved it and made lifelong friends from it (and most of my good friends are moms of her friends---so it's a family) But we had a few talented kids who thought they were better than others (and were good but not that good) and the kids quickly realized they were the nasty, back stabbing kids and amazingly most kids didn't want to be friends with them (never knew when they would turn on you). Same for their moms (apple typically doesn't fall far from the tree). The rest of us cheered on every kid, especially those who dont always have the "tippy top".
My kid utimatley chose a university that encourages her to dance. In fact, 12 credits of dance fulfills 2/3 of her "core curriculum". So I think that's a plus over the T25 schools she "wanted to attend".
The bolded is what we’re talking about ma’am. That’s you and the other mommies who are disappointed and possibly even embarrassed that your child opts to attend what you consider a “lesser” school (because of course it’s a choice for *your* kid - she just wants to dance, after all!).
And of course you cheer for your kids’ friends when *they* get accepted to such a school. It’s obviously good enough for those dingbats! Those kids should be so proud!
I suggest you look up “condescending” before continuing to pat yourself on the back for how amazingly supportive you are.
Even just the amount of text PP spills on this show’s she’s definitely one of the parents I’m talking about. Farrrr to anxious.
Give it up! My kid is at a T40 school. Had the "resume" for T25 but didn't win the lottery. Life goes on, they are excelling at their school. Life moves on.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I have a kid in public and private. The college counseling is night and day. We don’t have an outside counselor but will get one. We can easily afford it. I don’t know how much it will cost.
I do have a friend going through med school apps now and it sounds super competitive even with the outside consultant. I joked that I thought kids were on their own after they leave the house and mom said med school app was most stressful yet. Kid worked so hard in both high school and college. He has all the grades and test scores but so does every other kid applying to med school. Don’t even think he is trying to go to a prestigious med school at this point, just any med school.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
We are not UHNW. We do have a seven figure income and 30k is nothing to us. We are spending that for winter break.
I’m sure parents buy them SAT prep, non profits for them to “volunteer” in, they buy extracurricular achievements and research projects. All of this is being bought by parents.
The only thing is I don’t get is how do college admissions not read this from their college application.
Anonymous wrote:I’m sure parents buy them SAT prep, non profits for them to “volunteer” in, they buy extracurricular achievements and research projects. All of this is being bought by parents.
The only thing is I don’t get is how do college admissions not read this from their college application.
I think they do and just don’t care. When almost every kid at a certain level looks almost identical on paper, who cares. Just pick some at random.
The kids will end up being academically average at their institutions, but at least the parents might open their wallets.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
We are not UHNW. We do have a seven figure income and 30k is nothing to us. We are spending that for winter break.
I don't understand your comment. Plenty of seven figure folks and UHNW think nothing of spending $30K on a college counselor AND taking a $30k winter break vacation AND buying a $100k+ car, etc. It's not either or.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
We are not UHNW. We do have a seven figure income and 30k is nothing to us. We are spending that for winter break.
I don't understand your comment. Plenty of seven figure folks and UHNW think nothing of spending $30K on a college counselor AND taking a $30k winter break vacation AND buying a $100k+ car, etc. It's not either or.
That was exactly my point. 30k is nothing to us. We are spending that for winter break. 30k for a college counselor is also nothing to us.
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