Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)
I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.
it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you
Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.
not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.
For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.
So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.
If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.
The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.
AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.
Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"
Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.
Is there more to life than top grades and T10/Ivy? Really? Kind of key and important. Fine if you can't get there. Lots of places can be the launching pad. But let's not get too crazy here. The top is the top for a reason.
'Spouse has been CEO at two companies (both 1500-2000+ employess, global companies). of the 20+ execs, only 1 has a T20 degree. 70% have degrees from schools ranked 200+ some you have never heard of. Yet they are all execs, worth $10M+. They got there thru hard work and the fact nobody cares where you got your degree--it's what you do with yourself on the job.
Were these companies in tech, financial services/banking/fund management or other companies where the average professional is very highly paid?
I don't know if your examples are relevant or not because most T20 graduates aren't particularly interested in general corporate America outside of technology.
If you tell me he has been CEO of Carlyle Group with around 2000 employees, that's one thing. However, if it's a company like Scotts Miracle Gro with 2500 employees, that's just not the kind of place attracting these kids in general.
The CEO of Scott’s Miracle Gro has a 9 figure net worth and 7-8 figure annual comp depending on the year. Maybe those kids just need some perspective.
Well, mid-level hedge fund folks are worth $500MM+ and the hedge fund CEOs are worth many billions. Same for P/E and VC folks.
Right now, there are more than 500 employees at NVIDIA is worth more than the CEO of Scott's Miracle Gro.
I see you missed the part about perspective.
The CEO's dad started the company and he took over the family business...another reason some of these kids aren't interested in working at a company where if you don't have the last name Hagedorn you will have a hard time making it to the top.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)
I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.
it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you
Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.
not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.
For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.
So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.
If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.
The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.
AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.
Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"
Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.
Is there more to life than top grades and T10/Ivy? Really? Kind of key and important. Fine if you can't get there. Lots of places can be the launching pad. But let's not get too crazy here. The top is the top for a reason.
'Spouse has been CEO at two companies (both 1500-2000+ employess, global companies). of the 20+ execs, only 1 has a T20 degree. 70% have degrees from schools ranked 200+ some you have never heard of. Yet they are all execs, worth $10M+. They got there thru hard work and the fact nobody cares where you got your degree--it's what you do with yourself on the job.
Were these companies in tech, financial services/banking/fund management or other companies where the average professional is very highly paid?
I don't know if your examples are relevant or not because most T20 graduates aren't particularly interested in general corporate America outside of technology.
If you tell me he has been CEO of Carlyle Group with around 2000 employees, that's one thing. However, if it's a company like Scotts Miracle Gro with 2500 employees, that's just not the kind of place attracting these kids in general.
The CEO of Scott’s Miracle Gro has a 9 figure net worth and 7-8 figure annual comp depending on the year. Maybe those kids just need some perspective.
Well, mid-level hedge fund folks are worth $500MM+ and the hedge fund CEOs are worth many billions. Same for P/E and VC folks.
Right now, there are more than 500 employees at NVIDIA is worth more than the CEO of Scott's Miracle Gro.
I see you missed the part about perspective.
The CEO's dad started the company and he took over the family business...another reason some of these kids aren't interested in working at a company where if you don't have the last name Hagedorn you will have a hard time making it to the top.
Yes, you’re right, there are no other companies of this size that aren't family businesses and that pay their executives like this or that have executives with this type of net worth.
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)
I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.
it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you
Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.
not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.
For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.
So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.
If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.
The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.
AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.
Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"
Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.
Is there more to life than top grades and T10/Ivy? Really? Kind of key and important. Fine if you can't get there. Lots of places can be the launching pad. But let's not get too crazy here. The top is the top for a reason.
'Spouse has been CEO at two companies (both 1500-2000+ employess, global companies). of the 20+ execs, only 1 has a T20 degree. 70% have degrees from schools ranked 200+ some you have never heard of. Yet they are all execs, worth $10M+. They got there thru hard work and the fact nobody cares where you got your degree--it's what you do with yourself on the job.
Were these companies in tech, financial services/banking/fund management or other companies where the average professional is very highly paid?
I don't know if your examples are relevant or not because most T20 graduates aren't particularly interested in general corporate America outside of technology.
If you tell me he has been CEO of Carlyle Group with around 2000 employees, that's one thing. However, if it's a company like Scotts Miracle Gro with 2500 employees, that's just not the kind of place attracting these kids in general.
The CEO of Scott’s Miracle Gro has a 9 figure net worth and 7-8 figure annual comp depending on the year. Maybe those kids just need some perspective.
Well, mid-level hedge fund folks are worth $500MM+ and the hedge fund CEOs are worth many billions. Same for P/E and VC folks.
Right now, there are more than 500 employees at NVIDIA is worth more than the CEO of Scott's Miracle Gro.
I see you missed the part about perspective.
The CEO's dad started the company and he took over the family business...another reason some of these kids aren't interested in working at a company where if you don't have the last name Hagedorn you will have a hard time making it to the top.
Yes, you’re right, there are no other companies of this size that aren't family businesses and that pay their executives like this or that have executives with this type of net worth.
Still missing the perspective.
You actually are completely missing the perspective...if you have many lucrative options where you have a $200MM+ net worth by 40 and you don't even have to be the CEO, who wants to slog through corporate America to achieve the same?
Why does it bother you that the 1% should themselves to higher standards, given that they have all the resources? I mean at that level there are a lot fewer excuses available to you if you can’t make it happen
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.
x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.
I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.
It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.
I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.
we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)
I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.
it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you
Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.
not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.
For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.
So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.
If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.
The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.
AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.
Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"
Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.
Is there more to life than top grades and T10/Ivy? Really? Kind of key and important. Fine if you can't get there. Lots of places can be the launching pad. But let's not get too crazy here. The top is the top for a reason.
'Spouse has been CEO at two companies (both 1500-2000+ employess, global companies). of the 20+ execs, only 1 has a T20 degree. 70% have degrees from schools ranked 200+ some you have never heard of. Yet they are all execs, worth $10M+. They got there thru hard work and the fact nobody cares where you got your degree--it's what you do with yourself on the job.
Were these companies in tech, financial services/banking/fund management or other companies where the average professional is very highly paid?
I don't know if your examples are relevant or not because most T20 graduates aren't particularly interested in general corporate America outside of technology.
If you tell me he has been CEO of Carlyle Group with around 2000 employees, that's one thing. However, if it's a company like Scotts Miracle Gro with 2500 employees, that's just not the kind of place attracting these kids in general.
The CEO of Scott’s Miracle Gro has a 9 figure net worth and 7-8 figure annual comp depending on the year. Maybe those kids just need some perspective.
Well, mid-level hedge fund folks are worth $500MM+ and the hedge fund CEOs are worth many billions. Same for P/E and VC folks.
Right now, there are more than 500 employees at NVIDIA is worth more than the CEO of Scott's Miracle Gro.
I see you missed the part about perspective.
The CEO's dad started the company and he took over the family business...another reason some of these kids aren't interested in working at a company where if you don't have the last name Hagedorn you will have a hard time making it to the top.
Yes, you’re right, there are no other companies of this size that aren't family businesses and that pay their executives like this or that have executives with this type of net worth.
Still missing the perspective.
You actually are completely missing the perspective...if you have many lucrative options where you have a $200MM+ net worth by 40 and you don't even have to be the CEO, who wants to slog through corporate America to achieve the same?
Because there aren’t “many lucrative options where you have a $200MM+ net worth by 40.” What are you even talking about? There are fewer than 10,000 centi-millionaires in the entire US. Very few people achieve this. Just like the person who said mid-level hedge fund folks with $500MM+ net worths. No, most people at hedge funds are making six or seven figures max. Great pay but not stratospheric.
So by all means, go into tech or finance. They have great comp and opportunities in many areas. More than most, really. But don’t be so clueless as to think that doesn’t exist anywhere else, or that anything else is not worth going into because of the pay.
Anonymous wrote:My point is that the activities should be ones that the students themselves find, pursue, and succeed at on their own, and not ones a consultant and parents select for them.
You don't seem to understand how those activities are selected.
They don't give you a list of lessons to sign up for, they go through your current interests and highlight the ones you might want to focus on and guide you towards other activities that are similar or close to what you already love.
Maybe you have 6 activities and you are just OK at all of them, but your sumo wrestling is about to become an NCAA women's sport and you would be recruitable in your weight class if you could reclaim some time by putting your competitive jenga and lemonade stand on hold for a bit.
Maybe you love playing D&D because you love playing D&D because you really enjoy immersing yourself into the character. They might suggest you pursue drama club or something.
Of maybe you love D&D because you love weaving together worlds for your players to adventure in, so maybe you should take some writing classes to learn how to turn those ideas into stories.
You do not understand college admissions better than an experienced college consultant.
With that said, most of the time, they don't really add a whole lot of value aside from helping you pick out some schools that you would be extremely happy at but aren't on your radar.
My kid has too many activities. He is kind of all over the place but genuinely is interested. He plays 3 sports, model UN, science Olympiad, mock trial, robotics, is interested in science, engineering, history and art. I think a counselor could help steer him and maximize his summer potential junior year.
yes, he needs more focus. what is his major interest?
agree, this is where a college counselor can help.
He will likely study STEM, not sure what. He loves history and art. He is an amazing artist.
You’d be surprised by how many good artists there are amongst STEM kids. DD is at HYP. Never spent any time on art other than to create a portfolio for college apps.
Anonymous wrote:I’m in the peanut gallery watching several 1%ers in the college admissions process. It is INSANE. please folks get ahold of yourselves. Your super privileged kids are going to be fine.
You should visit the Harvard ED forum. Toxic parents making fun of kids who got in when their kid didn’t. My heart aches for their kids.
Anonymous wrote:Yes, life would be much easier if we lived in bumble town North Dakota and my kid just applied to State U or Directional State U. I am somewhat envious of that.
But we are not there.
There are good colleges even if you don't live in North Dakota. There are good colleges in your state that accept well over half of people who apply. So we are kind of there.
Anonymous wrote:Yes, life would be much easier if we lived in bumble town North Dakota and my kid just applied to State U or Directional State U. I am somewhat envious of that.
But we are not there.
What? Are you disgruntled because you are a 1%er with a kid who wants to go to an elite school because of name and thinks their wealth makes them entitled ? Those days were over a generation ago. Mine are at different ivies. We are top3% income ie full pay & make it work because we saved. Most there are on aid. Smart is the new rich. Me and many of my elite college peers went there highly aided in the 90s, now we make enough for our kids to be full pay. Since they are as smart or smarter than we are they got in just fine no hooks (in fact their demographic is a bit of a negative yet they still got in). There are plenty of non elite but still T75 for 1% wealth who are not in the top% of smarts/talent.
Sometimes people in your position are the worst. They grew up needing financial aid. They did well and are able to pay for their kids unlike their parents. Because they saved the money it gives them a sense of entitlement that y they didn’t have growing up even though nothing but salary has changed in their lives. That and bigger material goods.
Smart is not the new rich. Smart is such a generic term that it means nothing. It’s overused. Our kids don’t need financial aid, we didn’t need financial aid but we don’t worry about prestige. We don’t have a family full of geniuses and don’t try and pretend.
Some of our family members including children, cousins, aunts, uncles, siblings, etc went or go to Ivy League, same with trade school (community college), others went or go to schools I have no idea how they picked them.
Not everyone with money is clamoring for status. Most do want success and a school with a good fit no matter which school that may be.
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