Did you circumcise?

[Anonymous]

I don’t have a boy but may in the future. This would be a hard question for me.

For those who are anti, is it not a legitimate reason that you don’t want your son to be made fun of by girls/women when he is a teen or young adult? That would be my primary consideration. The PP who wrote in honest visceral detail about her experience with an intact boy in college and then laughing about him with her friends hit home to me. Should we not consider that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Up until my brother was in high school, he had pretty terrible hygiene (which is to be expected of boys) so from like kindergarten onwards, my mother had to nag him about everything: "have you brushed your teeth?" "have you taken a shower?" "have you put deodorant on?" "did you wash your hair" etc, over and over, until she became almost demented. Of course, the other thing she had to ask was "did you pull it back?" which once he was a pre-teen was absolutely mortifying to hear from your mom, but was necessary to ask because just like the other questions the answer was usually no.
.

I have sons and terrible hygiene is not to “be expected” of boys. My boys play hard and get dirty but the expectation in this household is that you will take a bath or shower before you go to bed. There is no nagging because there is no negotiation. Have higher expectations and expect them to be met.

Agree, but I think terrible hygiene IS expected in families like the PPs. They don’t know any better and don’t teach hygiene to their kids. There is nagging because expectations for hygiene are low. Of course this is not the norm in other families.

This makes sense. I learned on this forum that many parents don’t expect their children to bathe daily. I had no idea. I just assumed the kids at school who were “scented” played hard that day. I had no idea they may not have had a bathe the day/night before 😂

That’s because you grew up in a family that taught basic hygiene. I was also shocked when I learned that daily bathing wasn’t an expectation in most families. I thought it was a given.

It does explain why Americans are so out of sync with other countries on circumcision. Essentially, people in the US favor it to make up for bad hygiene practices at home.

This makes no sense. Americans bathe so much more than Europeans on average and yet Europeans are much less likely to circumcise. Americans shower more than Japanese as well.

circumcision has strong support of the medical community in the US more so than in other countries which some think affects rates here.

In any case I have a girl so not relevant but if I had a son a would not hesitate to circumsize for both religious (Jewish) and health reasons. It’s just one of many religious and health related decisions I would make for my child as a parent.

Americans may shower more but they have lower personal hygiene standards. In Europe, bathrooms have bidets and men learn from an early age how to use them. The Japanese take baths and learn personal bathing habits early. Americans may shower, but they don’t clean, at least a lot of them.

If you look around the globe, higher rates of circumcision are associated with lower personal hygiene standards. Of course that’s not all Americans (the ones against circumcision generally have high cleanliness standards), but in general circumcision is associated with worse personal hygiene practices.

Oh wow, so much ignorance presented as fact. So most of the Jewish people are dirty ? Also, Muslims who litteraly have to wash five times a day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Up until my brother was in high school, he had pretty terrible hygiene (which is to be expected of boys) so from like kindergarten onwards, my mother had to nag him about everything: "have you brushed your teeth?" "have you taken a shower?" "have you put deodorant on?" "did you wash your hair" etc, over and over, until she became almost demented. Of course, the other thing she had to ask was "did you pull it back?" which once he was a pre-teen was absolutely mortifying to hear from your mom, but was necessary to ask because just like the other questions the answer was usually no.
.

I have sons and terrible hygiene is not to “be expected” of boys. My boys play hard and get dirty but the expectation in this household is that you will take a bath or shower before you go to bed. There is no nagging because there is no negotiation. Have higher expectations and expect them to be met.

Agree, but I think terrible hygiene IS expected in families like the PPs. They don’t know any better and don’t teach hygiene to their kids. There is nagging because expectations for hygiene are low. Of course this is not the norm in other families.

This makes sense. I learned on this forum that many parents don’t expect their children to bathe daily. I had no idea. I just assumed the kids at school who were “scented” played hard that day. I had no idea they may not have had a bathe the day/night before 😂

That’s because you grew up in a family that taught basic hygiene. I was also shocked when I learned that daily bathing wasn’t an expectation in most families. I thought it was a given.

It does explain why Americans are so out of sync with other countries on circumcision. Essentially, people in the US favor it to make up for bad hygiene practices at home.

This makes no sense. Americans bathe so much more than Europeans on average and yet Europeans are much less likely to circumcise. Americans shower more than Japanese as well.

circumcision has strong support of the medical community in the US more so than in other countries which some think affects rates here.

In any case I have a girl so not relevant but if I had a son a would not hesitate to circumsize for both religious (Jewish) and health reasons. It’s just one of many religious and health related decisions I would make for my child as a parent.

Americans may shower more but they have lower personal hygiene standards. In Europe, bathrooms have bidets and men learn from an early age how to use them. The Japanese take baths and learn personal bathing habits early. Americans may shower, but they don’t clean, at least a lot of them.

If you look around the globe, higher rates of circumcision are associated with lower personal hygiene standards. Of course that’s not all Americans (the ones against circumcision generally have high cleanliness standards), but in general circumcision is associated with worse personal hygiene practices.

Oh wow, so much ignorance presented as fact. So most of the Jewish people are dirty ? Also, Muslims who litteraly have to wash five times a day?

No, of course the religious traditions are an exception (that developed for different reasons). But in general, putting aside religious practice, circumcision is associated with worse hygiene practices when not done for religious reasons. Look, Americans have worse personal hygiene. Sorry to break it to you.

[Anonymous]

Maybe Japan isn't the best example, since they also have a very complicated relationship with foreskin.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210903/p2a/00m/0li/007000c

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Up until my brother was in high school, he had pretty terrible hygiene (which is to be expected of boys) so from like kindergarten onwards, my mother had to nag him about everything: "have you brushed your teeth?" "have you taken a shower?" "have you put deodorant on?" "did you wash your hair" etc, over and over, until she became almost demented. Of course, the other thing she had to ask was "did you pull it back?" which once he was a pre-teen was absolutely mortifying to hear from your mom, but was necessary to ask because just like the other questions the answer was usually no.
.

I have sons and terrible hygiene is not to “be expected” of boys. My boys play hard and get dirty but the expectation in this household is that you will take a bath or shower before you go to bed. There is no nagging because there is no negotiation. Have higher expectations and expect them to be met.

Agree, but I think terrible hygiene IS expected in families like the PPs. They don’t know any better and don’t teach hygiene to their kids. There is nagging because expectations for hygiene are low. Of course this is not the norm in other families.

This makes sense. I learned on this forum that many parents don’t expect their children to bathe daily. I had no idea. I just assumed the kids at school who were “scented” played hard that day. I had no idea they may not have had a bathe the day/night before 😂

That’s because you grew up in a family that taught basic hygiene. I was also shocked when I learned that daily bathing wasn’t an expectation in most families. I thought it was a given.

It does explain why Americans are so out of sync with other countries on circumcision. Essentially, people in the US favor it to make up for bad hygiene practices at home.

This makes no sense. Americans bathe so much more than Europeans on average and yet Europeans are much less likely to circumcise. Americans shower more than Japanese as well.

circumcision has strong support of the medical community in the US more so than in other countries which some think affects rates here.

In any case I have a girl so not relevant but if I had a son a would not hesitate to circumsize for both religious (Jewish) and health reasons. It’s just one of many religious and health related decisions I would make for my child as a parent.

Americans may shower more but they have lower personal hygiene standards. In Europe, bathrooms have bidets and men learn from an early age how to use them. The Japanese take baths and learn personal bathing habits early. Americans may shower, but they don’t clean, at least a lot of them.

If you look around the globe, higher rates of circumcision are associated with lower personal hygiene standards. Of course that’s not all Americans (the ones against circumcision generally have high cleanliness standards), but in general circumcision is associated with worse personal hygiene practices.

Oh wow, so much ignorance presented as fact. So most of the Jewish people are dirty ? Also, Muslims who litteraly have to wash five times a day?

No, of course the religious traditions are an exception (that developed for different reasons). But in general, putting aside religious practice, circumcision is associated with worse hygiene practices when not done for religious reasons. Look, Americans have worse personal hygiene. Sorry to break it to you.

Strange though that they smell less. (Or exude less odor, if you want to be grammatically correct.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Up until my brother was in high school, he had pretty terrible hygiene (which is to be expected of boys) so from like kindergarten onwards, my mother had to nag him about everything: "have you brushed your teeth?" "have you taken a shower?" "have you put deodorant on?" "did you wash your hair" etc, over and over, until she became almost demented. Of course, the other thing she had to ask was "did you pull it back?" which once he was a pre-teen was absolutely mortifying to hear from your mom, but was necessary to ask because just like the other questions the answer was usually no.
.

I have sons and terrible hygiene is not to “be expected” of boys. My boys play hard and get dirty but the expectation in this household is that you will take a bath or shower before you go to bed. There is no nagging because there is no negotiation. Have higher expectations and expect them to be met.

Agree, but I think terrible hygiene IS expected in families like the PPs. They don’t know any better and don’t teach hygiene to their kids. There is nagging because expectations for hygiene are low. Of course this is not the norm in other families.

This makes sense. I learned on this forum that many parents don’t expect their children to bathe daily. I had no idea. I just assumed the kids at school who were “scented” played hard that day. I had no idea they may not have had a bathe the day/night before 😂

That’s because you grew up in a family that taught basic hygiene. I was also shocked when I learned that daily bathing wasn’t an expectation in most families. I thought it was a given.

It does explain why Americans are so out of sync with other countries on circumcision. Essentially, people in the US favor it to make up for bad hygiene practices at home.

This makes no sense. Americans bathe so much more than Europeans on average and yet Europeans are much less likely to circumcise. Americans shower more than Japanese as well.

circumcision has strong support of the medical community in the US more so than in other countries which some think affects rates here.

In any case I have a girl so not relevant but if I had a son a would not hesitate to circumsize for both religious (Jewish) and health reasons. It’s just one of many religious and health related decisions I would make for my child as a parent.

Americans have much better hygiene practices than Europeans or Japanese, yet we need high rates of circumcision to keep rates of STD or penile cancer the same as them?

I am Italian and while Americans take more showers than I am used to, I use the bidet 2-3 times a day. I think wiping is gross and not washing with soap right after sex/using the bathroom is gross as well.
To each it’s own…. We have bidet in every single one of our American bathrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a boy but may in the future. This would be a hard question for me.

For those who are anti, is it not a legitimate reason that you don’t want your son to be made fun of by girls/women when he is a teen or young adult? That would be my primary consideration. The PP who wrote in honest visceral detail about her experience with an intact boy in college and then laughing about him with her friends hit home to me. Should we not consider that?

I see what you’re saying, but explain how that is different than a boy having an honest visceral reaction to a woman with very small boobs or a giant nose. We would be horrified at the idea of surgically changing our daughter’s bodies to cater to the male gaze (obviously a nose job and breast augmentation are much more invasive, but it’s just a matter of degree).

If my son later wants to get circumcised, he is free to do so.

[Anonymous]

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a boy but may in the future. This would be a hard question for me.

For those who are anti, is it not a legitimate reason that you don’t want your son to be made fun of by girls/women when he is a teen or young adult? That would be my primary consideration. The PP who wrote in honest visceral detail about her experience with an intact boy in college and then laughing about him with her friends hit home to me. Should we not consider that?

Why on earth would you want your DS to be like someone like that PP? Honestly if that’s your consideration, you are better off not circumcising because that will weed out nightmare DILs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a boy but may in the future. This would be a hard question for me.

For those who are anti, is it not a legitimate reason that you don’t want your son to be made fun of by girls/women when he is a teen or young adult? That would be my primary consideration. The PP who wrote in honest visceral detail about her experience with an intact boy in college and then laughing about him with her friends hit home to me. Should we not consider that?

I see what you’re saying, but explain how that is different than a boy having an honest visceral reaction to a woman with very small boobs or a giant nose. We would be horrified at the idea of surgically changing our daughter’s bodies to cater to the male gaze (obviously a nose job and breast augmentation are much more invasive, but it’s just a matter of degree).

If my son later wants to get circumcised, he is free to do so.

In theory, there really isn't a difference, but the reality is that a sizeable percentage of American girls/women in certain parts of the country are viscerally disgusted by foreskin. I know a lot of women that don't care, but I also know a lot of women for whom it's a dealbreaker. It's not a dealbreaker for all women, or even most women, but if you get twenty random American college girls in a room, there will be a handful that it would be a dealbreaker for, and the vast majority of the rest would still either be weirded out or at least a little taken aback by it. A friend of mine in college was uncircuncised and he told me that he received enough negative reactions that he's started warning girls he's going to hook up with in advance. And this wasn't like decades ago or anything, this was in 2019.

Small boobs or big noses just don't evoke the same response. Teenage boys don't trade horror stories about the first time they saw a girl with small boobs. You know what teenage girls do trade horror stories about? Seeing their first uncircuncised penis.

You don't have to tell me shitty and hypocritical this is, I know, and I wish our culture wasn't like this, but it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a boy but may in the future. This would be a hard question for me.

For those who are anti, is it not a legitimate reason that you don’t want your son to be made fun of by girls/women when he is a teen or young adult? That would be my primary consideration. The PP who wrote in honest visceral detail about her experience with an intact boy in college and then laughing about him with her friends hit home to me. Should we not consider that?

I see what you’re saying, but explain how that is different than a boy having an honest visceral reaction to a woman with very small boobs or a giant nose. We would be horrified at the idea of surgically changing our daughter’s bodies to cater to the male gaze (obviously a nose job and breast augmentation are much more invasive, but it’s just a matter of degree).

If my son later wants to get circumcised, he is free to do so.

In theory, there really isn't a difference, but the reality is that a sizeable percentage of American girls/women in certain parts of the country are viscerally disgusted by foreskin. I know a lot of women that don't care, but I also know a lot of women for whom it's a dealbreaker. It's not a dealbreaker for all women, or even most women, but if you get twenty random American college girls in a room, there will be a handful that it would be a dealbreaker for, and the vast majority of the rest would still either be weirded out or at least a little taken aback by it. A friend of mine in college was uncircuncised and he told me that he received enough negative reactions that he's started warning girls he's going to hook up with in advance. And this wasn't like decades ago or anything, this was in 2019.

Small boobs or big noses just don't evoke the same response. Teenage boys don't trade horror stories about the first time they saw a girl with small boobs. You know what teenage girls do trade horror stories about? Seeing their first uncircuncised penis.

You don't have to tell me shitty and hypocritical this is, I know, and I wish our culture wasn't like this, but it is.

It just weeds out the shallow women with bad personal hygiene. That’s a feature not a bug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is a troll trying to stir up the same tired arguments once a month or so.
Anyway it seems that yes, circumcision has become a unique American cultural 'thing' because hygiene standards are so low and many women actively endorse this standard.
I think that about sums every one of these topics up?

Pretty much. Circumcision is favored to make up for bad hygiene practices in families.

It is disfavored in cultures and families where hygiene is more valued and better practiced. For instance, in Japan routine circumcision is not done, but the Japanese have high cultural standards for personal hygiene.

To the bolded - what the heck are you even talking about? More people complain about poor hygiene and BO in the European culture more than we do in the US. Are you trying to come up with some support for your argument? Cuz this won't do it.

We circumcised my son, and we'd do it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a boy but may in the future. This would be a hard question for me.

For those who are anti, is it not a legitimate reason that you don’t want your son to be made fun of by girls/women when he is a teen or young adult? That would be my primary consideration. The PP who wrote in honest visceral detail about her experience with an intact boy in college and then laughing about him with her friends hit home to me. Should we not consider that?

I see what you’re saying, but explain how that is different than a boy having an honest visceral reaction to a woman with very small boobs or a giant nose. We would be horrified at the idea of surgically changing our daughter’s bodies to cater to the male gaze (obviously a nose job and breast augmentation are much more invasive, but it’s just a matter of degree).

If my son later wants to get circumcised, he is free to do so.

In theory, there really isn't a difference, but the reality is that a sizeable percentage of American girls/women in certain parts of the country are viscerally disgusted by foreskin. I know a lot of women that don't care, but I also know a lot of women for whom it's a dealbreaker. It's not a dealbreaker for all women, or even most women, but if you get twenty random American college girls in a room, there will be a handful that it would be a dealbreaker for, and the vast majority of the rest would still either be weirded out or at least a little taken aback by it. A friend of mine in college was uncircuncised and he told me that he received enough negative reactions that he's started warning girls he's going to hook up with in advance. And this wasn't like decades ago or anything, this was in 2019.

Small boobs or big noses just don't evoke the same response. Teenage boys don't trade horror stories about the first time they saw a girl with small boobs. You know what teenage girls do trade horror stories about? Seeing their first uncircuncised penis.

You don't have to tell me shitty and hypocritical this is, I know, and I wish our culture wasn't like this, but it is.

It just weeds out the shallow women with bad personal hygiene. That’s a feature not a bug.

Yes, none of the women I knew in my 20s were turned off by foreskin. I’m not worried about my son. Younger generations have fewer body hang ups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who think the way males are born is wrong have serious issues.

I understand how cut men would be defensive about this, but women who are staunchly pro-circ are the strangest people ever.

Yes, I don’t understand a woman defending circumcision so aggressively. Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who think the way males are born is wrong have serious issues.

I understand how cut men would be defensive about this, but women who are staunchly pro-circ are the strangest people ever.

Yes, I don’t understand a woman defending circumcision so aggressively. Weird.

“Tradition.” This is the same excuse why some cultures do the female surgeries. It’s just barbaric.