A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost’

[Anonymous]

OMG, girls are good at listening to directions, organizing themselves in a classroom environment better than men, and sticking to rigid, ordered structure.

Now throw the kids out in the woods with a little bit of gear and no food rations. See how well men vs. women survive. Or throw a bunch of materials on the ground and tell them to build a bridge with no directions and very few tools available. Study after study has shown that men are spatial and visual learners. That's exactly OPPOSITE of how education is taught via rote, didactic based classroom learning.

The vast majority of college degrees are worthless. They teach almost zero about personal finance, how to fix your transmission so you save $2000 when it breaks down, or how to even unclog a drain in your home so that you don't have to spend $1000 on a visit from the plumber. Quiz all of these impressive college students who aren't specifically in finance or accounting to see if they have the faintest idea of what amortization is and how it affects their life. I can guarantee you amortization with have 100000000000x more impact on their entire lives than the writings of Sappho, Jane Austen, or Plato. Just admit it - a huge portion of college grads are forking over $20, 30, 40, even 70k per year just to be in what is tantamount to a stupid book club discussion that you can do for free at your local library. Universities teach almost nothing of actual value that helps people survive except maybe engineering and a few STEM degrees. Congrats for indebting yourselves to a greater degree than certain other groups of people just so you can stick a paper on your wall that says you read a whole bunch of library books that could have been checked out for free. Pfffff, advanced knowledge in many fields is now free these days online via YouTube and even universities themselves. College is the biggest waste of time. Unless of course you're OK with just settling for mediocre and being indebted out the wazoo for the privilege. It's so funny how many business leaders lambast worthless MBAs these days because schools teach almost zero of actual value. You constantly hear about how business leaders have to retrain MBAs from scratch, because what they just paid $200k for is essentially worthless.

[Anonymous]

From 2017!

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Most of the blue collar trade jobs are being taken by illegal aliens working off someone else's license. They have also been responsible for lowering wages in said fields. The best you can hope for is a union trade but typically you have to have an "in" to get an apprenticeship with these union trades and they are few and far between. America is not a developing nation and just doesn't have the need for huge numbers of blue collar workers. [/quote]

This is interesting to me because I keep seeing everywhere that college isn’t for everyone and people should go into trades. Personally, I believe the push to trades in ridiculous and college and a trade are not mutually exclusive as college is to educate. College is not trade school. A college education is never wasted.

You are supporting my argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ever notice how when women are “behind” in something, it’s usually framed in a way that minimizes the amount of control that women have over their situation. But, when men fall behind, they are assumed fully responsible for their apparent misfortune.

Actually, women ARE behind the times. They don't realize 95% of college degrees are worthless toilet paper. Men have moved on from worthless college degrees that saddle you with 20 years of debt to earn income by bypassing college altogether. 20.years from now the majority of people complaining about their $50k.in student loan debt for their deadend $15/hr job will be women. Meanwhile, guys will have spent the entire time learning trades to repair the oncoming wave of the automation of everything. Then women will cry they there is 'underrepresentation' in the lucrative 21st century trades that require no debt to learn.

Useless college degrees are so 20th century. Have fun with the debt to become a Starbucks barista.

What an ignorant hot take. Men are still going to college and still leaving with debt, the issue is most of the poor and middle class men are not graduating. So they have debt and no degree and just squander however many years pretending to be college students. These men aren't tech gurus or small business owners, they're living with their parents and failing to launch.

Newsflash: artificial intelligence and automation will wipe out 90% of white collar jobs. Even physicians and lawyers will be easily replaced in our lifetimes by machines. Those who will be poor in the future will be the idiots taking out 5 and 6 figure debt loads for a worthless peice of toilet paper to work a job that gets automated away. The winners will be the ones who learn trades to know how to repair drones, automated equipment for manufacturing and farming, and know trades to setup and service server farms. I'll laugh my ass at all of the worthless degrees in the future. But hey, maybe they will find solace in the fact that they're supposedly 'educated'.

You think a surgeon's job can be automated away but a plumber's can't?

Absolutely..

And it ain't just surgeons..

Input a bunch of symptoms and images and AI will make far better and more accurate diagnoses than most general practitioners and radiologists. Machines to do surgery are way further along to do surgery than replace piping in a house. AI will exceed a human physician because it'll be able to learn from basically all literature they has ever been published and will be published. Most doctors can't even keep up with modern literature and new therapies. AI will not only make better diagnoses, it'll make better suggestions for treatments because it will know all human scientific knowledge from every journal article ever published.


Also, unlike plumbing jobs that are almost always site and building specific, human anatomy doesn't really change. You can bring humans to a machine for surgery, but it is much harder to bring an automated industrial machine that could replace someone's piping in their house.

Dumb post by you.

I have worked for years in the field of machine learning and this post is hogwash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ever notice how when women are “behind” in something, it’s usually framed in a way that minimizes the amount of control that women have over their situation. But, when men fall behind, they are assumed fully responsible for their apparent misfortune.

Actually, women ARE behind the times. They don't realize 95% of college degrees are worthless toilet paper. Men have moved on from worthless college degrees that saddle you with 20 years of debt to earn income by bypassing college altogether. 20.years from now the majority of people complaining about their $50k.in student loan debt for their deadend $15/hr job will be women. Meanwhile, guys will have spent the entire time learning trades to repair the oncoming wave of the automation of everything. Then women will cry they there is 'underrepresentation' in the lucrative 21st century trades that require no debt to learn.

Useless college degrees are so 20th century. Have fun with the debt to become a Starbucks barista.

What an ignorant hot take. Men are still going to college and still leaving with debt, the issue is most of the poor and middle class men are not graduating. So they have debt and no degree and just squander however many years pretending to be college students. These men aren't tech gurus or small business owners, they're living with their parents and failing to launch.

Newsflash: artificial intelligence and automation will wipe out 90% of white collar jobs. Even physicians and lawyers will be easily replaced in our lifetimes by machines. Those who will be poor in the future will be the idiots taking out 5 and 6 figure debt loads for a worthless peice of toilet paper to work a job that gets automated away. The winners will be the ones who learn trades to know how to repair drones, automated equipment for manufacturing and farming, and know trades to setup and service server farms. I'll laugh my ass at all of the worthless degrees in the future. But hey, maybe they will find solace in the fact that they're supposedly 'educated'.

Yeah. You’re full of shit. Interesting McKinsey report on where jobs will be gained and lost in this country. And most jobs lost will be in areas that do not require a college degree. Although some skilled trades will see and increase. Others will be automated.

https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/future-of-work/jobs-lost-jobs-gained-what-the-future-of-work-will-mean-for-jobs-skills-and-wages

But, if what you are saying is men aren’t getting college degrees because they don’t want them, that’s fine. Plenty of women do. Maybe your sons can find women willing to support them.

“McKinsey” *snort* LOL.

Did you actually look at, you know, the data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ever notice how when women are “behind” in something, it’s usually framed in a way that minimizes the amount of control that women have over their situation. But, when men fall behind, they are assumed fully responsible for their apparent misfortune.

Actually, women ARE behind the times. They don't realize 95% of college degrees are worthless toilet paper. Men have moved on from worthless college degrees that saddle you with 20 years of debt to earn income by bypassing college altogether. 20.years from now the majority of people complaining about their $50k.in student loan debt for their deadend $15/hr job will be women. Meanwhile, guys will have spent the entire time learning trades to repair the oncoming wave of the automation of everything. Then women will cry they there is 'underrepresentation' in the lucrative 21st century trades that require no debt to learn.

Useless college degrees are so 20th century. Have fun with the debt to become a Starbucks barista.

What an ignorant hot take. Men are still going to college and still leaving with debt, the issue is most of the poor and middle class men are not graduating. So they have debt and no degree and just squander however many years pretending to be college students. These men aren't tech gurus or small business owners, they're living with their parents and failing to launch.

Newsflash: artificial intelligence and automation will wipe out 90% of white collar jobs. Even physicians and lawyers will be easily replaced in our lifetimes by machines. Those who will be poor in the future will be the idiots taking out 5 and 6 figure debt loads for a worthless peice of toilet paper to work a job that gets automated away. The winners will be the ones who learn trades to know how to repair drones, automated equipment for manufacturing and farming, and know trades to setup and service server farms. I'll laugh my ass at all of the worthless degrees in the future. But hey, maybe they will find solace in the fact that they're supposedly 'educated'.

You think a surgeon's job can be automated away but a plumber's can't?

Absolutely..

And it ain't just surgeons..

Input a bunch of symptoms and images and AI will make far better and more accurate diagnoses than most general practitioners and radiologists. Machines to do surgery are way further along to do surgery than replace piping in a house. AI will exceed a human physician because it'll be able to learn from basically all literature they has ever been published and will be published. Most doctors can't even keep up with modern literature and new therapies. AI will not only make better diagnoses, it'll make better suggestions for treatments because it will know all human scientific knowledge from every journal article ever published.


Also, unlike plumbing jobs that are almost always site and building specific, human anatomy doesn't really change. You can bring humans to a machine for surgery, but it is much harder to bring an automated industrial machine that could replace someone's piping in their house.

Dumb post by you.

I have worked for years in the field of machine learning and this post is hogwash.

+1 Machine learning has a LONG way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG, girls are good at listening to directions, organizing themselves in a classroom environment better than men, and sticking to rigid, ordered structure.

Now throw the kids out in the woods with a little bit of gear and no food rations. See how well men vs. women survive. Or throw a bunch of materials on the ground and tell them to build a bridge with no directions and very few tools available. Study after study has shown that men are spatial and visual learners. That's exactly OPPOSITE of how education is taught via rote, didactic based classroom learning.

The vast majority of college degrees are worthless. They teach almost zero about personal finance, how to fix your transmission so you save $2000 when it breaks down, or how to even unclog a drain in your home so that you don't have to spend $1000 on a visit from the plumber. Quiz all of these impressive college students who aren't specifically in finance or accounting to see if they have the faintest idea of what amortization is and how it affects their life. I can guarantee you amortization with have 100000000000x more impact on their entire lives than the writings of Sappho, Jane Austen, or Plato. Just admit it - a huge portion of college grads are forking over $20, 30, 40, even 70k per year just to be in what is tantamount to a stupid book club discussion that you can do for free at your local library. Universities teach almost nothing of actual value that helps people survive except maybe engineering and a few STEM degrees. Congrats for indebting yourselves to a greater degree than certain other groups of people just so you can stick a paper on your wall that says you read a whole bunch of library books that could have been checked out for free. Pfffff, advanced knowledge in many fields is now free these days online via YouTube and even universities themselves. College is the biggest waste of time. Unless of course you're OK with just settling for mediocre and being indebted out the wazoo for the privilege. It's so funny how many business leaders lambast worthless MBAs these days because schools teach almost zero of actual value. You constantly hear about how business leaders have to retrain MBAs from scratch, because what they just paid $200k for is essentially worthless.

Wow. So many incorrect assumptions and misogyny it’s hard to know we’re to start.

But O do agree that the point of a 4 year degree isn’t to rebuild a transmission. Which is fine. In 20 years, that will be done by robots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little surprised that no one has pointed out yet that the WSJ in the past few years has become a Trump Republican mouthpiece. I'm very skeptical of ANYTHING that they print.

My son (who has ADHD and loves video games) was admitted to 100% of the colleges he applied to and is doing great. Same with all his friends. Same with my nephew. Not quite sure where this sense of grievance is coming from, but I'm really skeptical of anything that WSJ tells me about it.

There is a paywall, so I couldn't read the article, but I gotta say this whole "the system has failed me" stuff sounds a whole lot like the misandry nonsense that I've been hearing forever wherein anti-social loser men claim to be "lost" because they aren't allowed to abuse women and make racist jokes anymore. As a middle aged white guy who recently went through a job search, I don't find the world hard for men. It's certainly far easier for me than for women in my life or the people of color I know.

Interesting, because my young for his grade son, who also was admitted to every college he applied to and loves video games, will be the first to tell you that he doesn't speak up in class - ever - because he is afraid he will say something wrong and realizes that, regardless, his perspective isn't welcome. He doesn't feel sorry for himself. He accepts this as truth.

My younger son, who also gets good grades now that he is older, feels the same. I can assure you that neither boy is racist, woman hating, or even self-pitying. They are actually pretty insightful.

+1
Yep. Same experience here. Not self-pity, but definitely eyes wide open.

I asked my white son about this. This has not been his experience. My kid is pretty active in race and gender relations stuff at school and has actually be asked to participate more -- attend more meetings, meet with faculty, etc.

I am a college professor and I don't see it either. I am a woman, POC, and teach history to all majors but more STEM than humanities. My male students, both white and POC, feel comfortable expressing themselves in class, which often involves discussions of gender, class, race, politics, etc. in the US. However, I have noticed that female students are, in general, more organized than male students. In other words, they are better students, not smarter, but better able to meet academic expectations such as studying, handing in assignments on time, managing course loads, etc.

So, the white men in your classes feel comfortable expressing views that you may disagree with? Or are they good at telling you what you want to hear?

My DS doesn’t say that he doesn’t talk in class, but it was around middle school when I asked him what he was going to say about an assignment that could be controversial, and he very breezily said, “Don’t worry Mom, I know what the teacher wants to hear.”

Yes, the white young men feel comfortable disagreeing with my view or others in the class. This semester I have two young men that are conservative that actively participate in discussion even though most of the students are liberal. Every semester I read papers that reflect a diversity of perspectives about American history. If the paper is well researched with evidence I don't expect them to write what I want to hear. I'm not alone.

And what assignments are controversial in middle school? What does the teacher want to hear?

[Anonymous]

PP can’t write.

[Anonymous]

One thing I’ve noticed is millennial and gen z men, if they aren’t “top tier”/gunner track, they are very willing to downshift big time.

What I mean is the decent cs grad who never gets a FAANG type job só works the minimum to survive and is looking to fire ASAP. Before, that person would work hard at some other it job and build a career/family life.

Now they’ll work for a few years live super frugally until they can scrape by a modest independent life.

Lots of men, even those who are somewhat decently intelligent have checked out of society on a relative basis or uphold that as their end goal..to check out, not to be a husband/provider type.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little surprised that no one has pointed out yet that the WSJ in the past few years has become a Trump Republican mouthpiece. I'm very skeptical of ANYTHING that they print.

My son (who has ADHD and loves video games) was admitted to 100% of the colleges he applied to and is doing great. Same with all his friends. Same with my nephew. Not quite sure where this sense of grievance is coming from, but I'm really skeptical of anything that WSJ tells me about it.

There is a paywall, so I couldn't read the article, but I gotta say this whole "the system has failed me" stuff sounds a whole lot like the misandry nonsense that I've been hearing forever wherein anti-social loser men claim to be "lost" because they aren't allowed to abuse women and make racist jokes anymore. As a middle aged white guy who recently went through a job search, I don't find the world hard for men. It's certainly far easier for me than for women in my life or the people of color I know.

Interesting, because my young for his grade son, who also was admitted to every college he applied to and loves video games, will be the first to tell you that he doesn't speak up in class - ever - because he is afraid he will say something wrong and realizes that, regardless, his perspective isn't welcome. He doesn't feel sorry for himself. He accepts this as truth.

My younger son, who also gets good grades now that he is older, feels the same. I can assure you that neither boy is racist, woman hating, or even self-pitying. They are actually pretty insightful.

+1
Yep. Same experience here. Not self-pity, but definitely eyes wide open.

I asked my white son about this. This has not been his experience. My kid is pretty active in race and gender relations stuff at school and has actually be asked to participate more -- attend more meetings, meet with faculty, etc.

I am a college professor and I don't see it either. I am a woman, POC, and teach history to all majors but more STEM than humanities. My male students, both white and POC, feel comfortable expressing themselves in class, which often involves discussions of gender, class, race, politics, etc. in the US. However, I have noticed that female students are, in general, more organized than male students. In other words, they are better students, not smarter, but better able to meet academic expectations such as studying, handing in assignments on time, managing course loads, etc.

So, the white men in your classes feel comfortable expressing views that you may disagree with? Or are they good at telling you what you want to hear?

My DS doesn’t say that he doesn’t talk in class, but it was around middle school when I asked him what he was going to say about an assignment that could be controversial, and he very breezily said, “Don’t worry Mom, I know what the teacher wants to hear.”

DD has heard plenty of white boys express controversial opinions and ask insensitive questions. She found the idea that white boys aren’t comfortable expressing themselves laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little surprised that no one has pointed out yet that the WSJ in the past few years has become a Trump Republican mouthpiece. I'm very skeptical of ANYTHING that they print.

My son (who has ADHD and loves video games) was admitted to 100% of the colleges he applied to and is doing great. Same with all his friends. Same with my nephew. Not quite sure where this sense of grievance is coming from, but I'm really skeptical of anything that WSJ tells me about it.

There is a paywall, so I couldn't read the article, but I gotta say this whole "the system has failed me" stuff sounds a whole lot like the misandry nonsense that I've been hearing forever wherein anti-social loser men claim to be "lost" because they aren't allowed to abuse women and make racist jokes anymore. As a middle aged white guy who recently went through a job search, I don't find the world hard for men. It's certainly far easier for me than for women in my life or the people of color I know.

Interesting, because my young for his grade son, who also was admitted to every college he applied to and loves video games, will be the first to tell you that he doesn't speak up in class - ever - because he is afraid he will say something wrong and realizes that, regardless, his perspective isn't welcome. He doesn't feel sorry for himself. He accepts this as truth.

My younger son, who also gets good grades now that he is older, feels the same. I can assure you that neither boy is racist, woman hating, or even self-pitying. They are actually pretty insightful.

+1
Yep. Same experience here. Not self-pity, but definitely eyes wide open.

I asked my white son about this. This has not been his experience. My kid is pretty active in race and gender relations stuff at school and has actually be asked to participate more -- attend more meetings, meet with faculty, etc.

I am a college professor and I don't see it either. I am a woman, POC, and teach history to all majors but more STEM than humanities. My male students, both white and POC, feel comfortable expressing themselves in class, which often involves discussions of gender, class, race, politics, etc. in the US. However, I have noticed that female students are, in general, more organized than male students. In other words, they are better students, not smarter, but better able to meet academic expectations such as studying, handing in assignments on time, managing course loads, etc.

So, the white men in your classes feel comfortable expressing views that you may disagree with? Or are they good at telling you what you want to hear?

My DS doesn’t say that he doesn’t talk in class, but it was around middle school when I asked him what he was going to say about an assignment that could be controversial, and he very breezily said, “Don’t worry Mom, I know what the teacher wants to hear.”

DD has heard plenty of white boys express controversial opinions and ask insensitive questions. She found the idea that white boys aren’t comfortable expressing themselves laughable.

+1. Yeah. I’m not sure what PP is talking about. Or why s/he so adamant that they raised such a doormat that they are unwilling or unable to say what they really think. Unless what they really think is MAGA in the DMV, in which case the hating on smart women makes complete sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little surprised that no one has pointed out yet that the WSJ in the past few years has become a Trump Republican mouthpiece. I'm very skeptical of ANYTHING that they print.

My son (who has ADHD and loves video games) was admitted to 100% of the colleges he applied to and is doing great. Same with all his friends. Same with my nephew. Not quite sure where this sense of grievance is coming from, but I'm really skeptical of anything that WSJ tells me about it.

There is a paywall, so I couldn't read the article, but I gotta say this whole "the system has failed me" stuff sounds a whole lot like the misandry nonsense that I've been hearing forever wherein anti-social loser men claim to be "lost" because they aren't allowed to abuse women and make racist jokes anymore. As a middle aged white guy who recently went through a job search, I don't find the world hard for men. It's certainly far easier for me than for women in my life or the people of color I know.

Interesting, because my young for his grade son, who also was admitted to every college he applied to and loves video games, will be the first to tell you that he doesn't speak up in class - ever - because he is afraid he will say something wrong and realizes that, regardless, his perspective isn't welcome. He doesn't feel sorry for himself. He accepts this as truth.

My younger son, who also gets good grades now that he is older, feels the same. I can assure you that neither boy is racist, woman hating, or even self-pitying. They are actually pretty insightful.

+1
Yep. Same experience here. Not self-pity, but definitely eyes wide open.

I asked my white son about this. This has not been his experience. My kid is pretty active in race and gender relations stuff at school and has actually be asked to participate more -- attend more meetings, meet with faculty, etc.

I am a college professor and I don't see it either. I am a woman, POC, and teach history to all majors but more STEM than humanities. My male students, both white and POC, feel comfortable expressing themselves in class, which often involves discussions of gender, class, race, politics, etc. in the US. However, I have noticed that female students are, in general, more organized than male students. In other words, they are better students, not smarter, but better able to meet academic expectations such as studying, handing in assignments on time, managing course loads, etc.

So, the white men in your classes feel comfortable expressing views that you may disagree with? Or are they good at telling you what you want to hear?

My DS doesn’t say that he doesn’t talk in class, but it was around middle school when I asked him what he was going to say about an assignment that could be controversial, and he very breezily said, “Don’t worry Mom, I know what the teacher wants to hear.”

DD has heard plenty of white boys express controversial opinions and ask insensitive questions. She found the idea that white boys aren’t comfortable expressing themselves laughable.

+1. Yeah. I’m not sure what PP is talking about. Or why s/he so adamant that they raised such a doormat that they are unwilling or unable to say what they really think. Unless what they really think is MAGA in the DMV, in which case the hating on smart women makes complete sense.

All I can say is that you all must not have boys that attend private schools in the DMV (if you think anything other than the most liberal possible opinion is acceptable). I also have a feeling that that anything other than the most liberal position possible would be your definition of “MAGA,” which proves the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t this because more men go into the trades? It makes sense to me.

Exactly. Most plumbers, carpenters, masons, construction workers, electricians, HVAC techs, etc. are men. Women tend to be nurses, teachers, social workers, etc…all of which need college degrees.

See.. women still need to be more educated than men to have a decent paying job. Women who don't have an education end up in jobs that pay minimum wage, unlike these traditional male trade jobs.

Why aren't more women in these trade jobs?

much of it requires physical labor that women don't have the strength for.

As a woman, I would not want to go into homes of people I do not know by myself. I fully live my life but am also aware of the levels of harassment and assault women experience. I've experienced both, myself. So, the trades would (generally) be not something I was interested in b/c of a) I'm just not interested and b) the other reason I stated.

And lest anyone tell me that I'm spewing BS, I was IN a position that I had to interact with, deal with, trade workers (plumbers, carpenters, laborers, electricians, etc.) The amount of harassment and over sexual advanced I experienced in my profession role -not in a personal residence somewhere- was off the charts. Similarly, my father was in a a hard core, roughneck type trade job. It was the same there. So, I'm well equipped to opine on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t this because more men go into the trades? It makes sense to me.

Exactly. Most plumbers, carpenters, masons, construction workers, electricians, HVAC techs, etc. are men. Women tend to be nurses, teachers, social workers, etc…all of which need college degrees.

See.. women still need to be more educated than men to have a decent paying job. Women who don't have an education end up in jobs that pay minimum wage, unlike these traditional male trade jobs.

Why aren't more women in these trade jobs?

much of it requires physical labor that women don't have the strength for.

As a woman, I would not want to go into homes of people I do not know by myself. I fully live my life but am also aware of the levels of harassment and assault women experience. I've experienced both, myself. So, the trades would (generally) be not something I was interested in b/c of a) I'm just not interested and b) the other reason I stated.

And lest anyone tell me that I'm spewing BS, I was IN a position that I had to interact with, deal with, trade workers (plumbers, carpenters, laborers, electricians, etc.) The amount of harassment and over sexual advanced I experienced in my profession role -not in a personal residence somewhere- was off the charts. Similarly, my father was in a a hard core, roughneck type trade job. It was the same there. So, I'm well equipped to opine on this.

PP here.. you bring up a very good point.

I was talking about this topic with my DH last night, and he said that some women might find it more comfortable to hire female trade workers and having them in the house with them alone.

IMO, there would be some women who would feel this way, but there would also be some women who still have the stereotype of what a plumber should look like, and it's not a female, and they would not hire females.

But yea, I would not feel comfortable going into a stranger's home, either.