What’s wrong with William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.



College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

W&M has sports. It has sent many football players to the NFL. And there’s Coach Tomlin and Coach McDermott. And the best assistant coach in college football at LSU. Are you that dumb?

Are you that dumb that you missed the context? W&M doesn't have big-time sports. The type of sports that generate and fuel school spirit and bring a college community together. Avg. attendance for W&M football is 9,000 vs. 60,000 for VA Tech. JMU averages 21,000.

But W&M only has 6000 students. It's a liberal arts college atmosphere, not a bi-directional or big state U. W&M has a very cohesive college community.

Wake Forest has 6,400 students and Duke has 6,600. Don't have to be big state U to have major sports. Sports provide a big part of the experience at both of those higher ranked schools.

But those are private schools that cost a lot more and use their resources in varied ways. W&M is a public university, with a liberal arts college feel.

[Anonymous]

For the most part W&M attracts the type of kids who aren’t big on sports, either as athletes or spectators, and it’s been that way for decades. Sure, there are some recruited athletes, but hopefully they go to W&M with their eyes wide open that they will not be the center of attention. I hardly see why that disqualifies it from being a well-regarded university. Did people obsess this much when Yale was 60% male?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good post re: context of gender imbalance. It’s less striking in the actual enrolled class but quite pronounced in terms of gender balance of applicants: 62/38 f/m.

That's the number that matters. It shows that W&M discriminates against women in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the most part W&M attracts the type of kids who aren’t big on sports, either as athletes or spectators, and it’s been that way for decades. Sure, there are some recruited athletes, but hopefully they go to W&M with their eyes wide open that they will not be the center of attention. I hardly see why that disqualifies it from being a well-regarded university. Did people obsess this much when Yale was 60% male?

I don't agree. W&M kids like sports as much as other places. They just did't pick their college expecting a big time (e.g. SEC football) sports experience. And that is the case at many schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the most part W&M attracts the type of kids who aren’t big on sports, either as athletes or spectators, and it’s been that way for decades. Sure, there are some recruited athletes, but hopefully they go to W&M with their eyes wide open that they will not be the center of attention. I hardly see why that disqualifies it from being a well-regarded university. Did people obsess this much when Yale was 60% male?

I don't agree. W&M kids like sports as much as other places. They just did't pick their college expecting a big time (e.g. SEC football) sports experience. And that is the case at many schools.

I love W&M but you actually think they like their sports as much as Penn State, Duke, or Alabama? As much as *other similar schools*, yes. But many, many schools have a much more intense sports culture. It is a downside for some students, the not very important, not very fun, not very successful sports programs (which are related) and a possible factor in the male/female disparity of interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the most part W&M attracts the type of kids who aren’t big on sports, either as athletes or spectators, and it’s been that way for decades. Sure, there are some recruited athletes, but hopefully they go to W&M with their eyes wide open that they will not be the center of attention. I hardly see why that disqualifies it from being a well-regarded university. Did people obsess this much when Yale was 60% male?

I don't agree. W&M kids like sports as much as other places. They just did't pick their college expecting a big time (e.g. SEC football) sports experience. And that is the case at many schools.

I love W&M but you actually think they like their sports as much as Penn State, Duke, or Alabama? As much as *other similar schools*, yes. But many, many schools have a much more intense sports culture. It is a downside for some students, the not very important, not very fun, not very successful sports programs (which are related) and a possible factor in the male/female disparity of interest.

I think the above poster meant the kids might like sports just as much, but not care about the big SEC style spectator sports experience. W&M has a fairly lively intramural sports scene for a rigorous academic school and enough okay sports teams. I actually think it's a great place if you want to play sports and get a good education, a not so great place if you want the social life to focus on large-scale sports events.

[Anonymous]

Some people are just not into large scale spectator sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people are just not into large scale spectator sports.

Or they might be, but don't see why that should intersect with your choice in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are just not into large scale spectator sports.

Or they might be, but don't see why that should intersect with your choice in college.

The most reasonable thing said in 14+ pages.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.



College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

W&M has sports. It has sent many football players to the NFL. And there’s Coach Tomlin and Coach McDermott. And the best assistant coach in college football at LSU. Are you that dumb?

Are you that dumb that you missed the context? W&M doesn't have big-time sports. The type of sports that generate and fuel school spirit and bring a college community together. Avg. attendance for W&M football is 9,000 vs. 60,000 for VA Tech. JMU averages 21,000.

But W&M only has 6000 students. It's a liberal arts college atmosphere, not a bi-directional or big state U. W&M has a very cohesive college community.

Wake Forest has 6,400 students and Duke has 6,600. Don't have to be big state U to have major sports. Sports provide a big part of the experience at both of those higher ranked schools.

But they are in the ACC, a "Power 5" conference with the biggest TV contracts. W&M is not going to be joining a Power 5 conference.

it was invited to years ago, but said no. Probably a dumb move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.



College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

W&M has sports. It has sent many football players to the NFL. And there’s Coach Tomlin and Coach McDermott. And the best assistant coach in college football at LSU. Are you that dumb?

Are you that dumb that you missed the context? W&M doesn't have big-time sports. The type of sports that generate and fuel school spirit and bring a college community together. Avg. attendance for W&M football is 9,000 vs. 60,000 for VA Tech. JMU averages 21,000.

Morón: William and Mary’s football stadium only seats about 12000 people or so. Try to communicate more effectively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are just not into large scale spectator sports.

Or they might be, but don't see why that should intersect with your choice in college.

The most reasonable thing said in 14+ pages.

No it wasn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.



College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

W&M has sports. It has sent many football players to the NFL. And there’s Coach Tomlin and Coach McDermott. And the best assistant coach in college football at LSU. Are you that dumb?

Are you that dumb that you missed the context? W&M doesn't have big-time sports. The type of sports that generate and fuel school spirit and bring a college community together. Avg. attendance for W&M football is 9,000 vs. 60,000 for VA Tech. JMU averages 21,000.

But W&M only has 6000 students. It's a liberal arts college atmosphere, not a bi-directional or big state U. W&M has a very cohesive college community.

Wake Forest has 6,400 students and Duke has 6,600. Don't have to be big state U to have major sports. Sports provide a big part of the experience at both of those higher ranked schools.

But they are in the ACC, a "Power 5" conference with the biggest TV contracts. W&M is not going to be joining a Power 5 conference.

it was invited to years ago, but said no. Probably a dumb move.

I don't think so. Can you cite a reputable source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.



College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

W&M has sports. It has sent many football players to the NFL. And there’s Coach Tomlin and Coach McDermott. And the best assistant coach in college football at LSU. Are you that dumb?

Are you that dumb that you missed the context? W&M doesn't have big-time sports. The type of sports that generate and fuel school spirit and bring a college community together. Avg. attendance for W&M football is 9,000 vs. 60,000 for VA Tech. JMU averages 21,000.

Morón: William and Mary’s football stadium only seats about 12000 people or so. Try to communicate more effectively.

Wow. Another W&M snowflake got triggered. Calm down. And keep reminding yourself, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough...even though I attended W&M."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are just not into large scale spectator sports.

Or they might be, but don't see why that should intersect with your choice in college.

The most reasonable thing said in 14+ pages.

No it wasn’t.

Yes it was