What’s wrong with William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Some people are just not into large scale spectator sports.

Or they might be, but don't see why that should intersect with your choice in college.

The most reasonable thing said in 14+ pages.

No it wasn’t.

Yes it was

False.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the most part W&M attracts the type of kids who aren’t big on sports, either as athletes or spectators, and it’s been that way for decades. Sure, there are some recruited athletes, but hopefully they go to W&M with their eyes wide open that they will not be the center of attention. I hardly see why that disqualifies it from being a well-regarded university. Did people obsess this much when Yale was 60% male?

I guess a women’s soccer team with a tremendous stretch of NCAA appearances and leading cross country and swimming teams don’t matter to you. But they matter a lot to many people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that it doesn’t really have a bright future as a public school. In a time of increased popularity for many Virginia public universities, William & Mary seems to be caught in a downward spiral. Its application numbers are stagnant, its female-male ratio is ridiculous, its acceptance rate has increased to almost 40 percent, its yield rate is terrible, it’s poorly positioned in terms of tech growth, it’s very expensive, and it’s now looking to increase (?) enrollment because it needs the bucks. Discouraging my kid from applying. Is it time for the school to consider becoming a private college or to affiliate with Tech or something?

UNC and Emory have the same gender balance.

For 2018 entering class, UVA was 57% female, VCU 64%, JMU 59%, Longwood 69%, CNU 56%, MWU 66%, Radford 59%, ODU 53%. Only male majority were VT at 55% male and VMI at 83% male. GMU was 50/50. UNC-CH was 59% female. National is close to 58 percent.

+1. My son is applying to WM and SLACs. I told him to enjoy the one time in his life that he will Ben’s for from affirmative action. His sister works harder and has better grades. Should have equivalent test scores. And will have a harder time in college admissions because she isn’t looking at hardcore STEM.



College admissions is where you really see the results of girls having earlier prefrontal cortex development and better executive functioning.

And the feminization of the American education system. We have had 'girl' programs for the past 20 years while the boys continue to fall behind.

W&M alum here, and though it's un-PC to say, I think the above is contributing to W&M's "decline," as PPs are calling it. There are more girls interested in W&M than boys, making it EXTREMELY competitive, especially for OOS girl applicants. Boys definitely get a huge bump in admissions (I think 50% of guys get in ED, IIRC), but the vast majority don't end up matriculating. So you have the gender imbalance to start, plus a lack of sports teams (football games were mainly attended by townies and families with small kids; very few students) and that ends up affecting the courses offered, student programming, etc. Don't get me wrong, W&M is a great place, but it's not attracting boys in droves (which made a lot of girls who came to campus for their MRS degree rather unhappy!).

Yep. No sports and no engineering school makes W&M less attractive to boys.

W&M has sports. It has sent many football players to the NFL. And there’s Coach Tomlin and Coach McDermott. And the best assistant coach in college football at LSU. Are you that dumb?

Are you that dumb that you missed the context? W&M doesn't have big-time sports. The type of sports that generate and fuel school spirit and bring a college community together. Avg. attendance for W&M football is 9,000 vs. 60,000 for VA Tech. JMU averages 21,000.

Morón: William and Mary’s football stadium only seats about 12000 people or so. Try to communicate more effectively.

Wow. Another W&M snowflake got triggered. Calm down. And keep reminding yourself, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough...even though I attended W&M."

Nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the most part W&M attracts the type of kids who aren’t big on sports, either as athletes or spectators, and it’s been that way for decades. Sure, there are some recruited athletes, but hopefully they go to W&M with their eyes wide open that they will not be the center of attention. I hardly see why that disqualifies it from being a well-regarded university. Did people obsess this much when Yale was 60% male?

I guess a women’s soccer team with a tremendous stretch of NCAA appearances and leading cross country and swimming teams don’t matter to you. But they matter a lot to many people.

How many students typically attend a cross country meet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the most part W&M attracts the type of kids who aren’t big on sports, either as athletes or spectators, and it’s been that way for decades. Sure, there are some recruited athletes, but hopefully they go to W&M with their eyes wide open that they will not be the center of attention. I hardly see why that disqualifies it from being a well-regarded university. Did people obsess this much when Yale was 60% male?

I guess a women’s soccer team with a tremendous stretch of NCAA appearances and leading cross country and swimming teams don’t matter to you. But they matter a lot to many people.

How many students typically attend a cross country meet?

Very few indeed —- anywhere. But that does not minimize the importance of the sport there. The school has a plan to achieve greater success in football and basketball. Whether this can be done remains to be seen. But W&M will never be a “helmet school” like Alabama.

[Anonymous]

The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

Perhaps that's a factor, but there are simply more qualified female applicants than male applicants these days and more women are choosing to go to college. Only VMI and Virginia Tech are majority male. The rest of the Virginia public colleges and universities are majority female. Overall the Virginia higher ed system was 56% female for 2018 enrolled class and the U.S. was 57%. Here are the percentage of females at Virginia schools for fall 2018 new enrolled students:

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
Norfolk State 65%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
UVA - Wise 53%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

Perhaps that's a factor, but there are simply more qualified female applicants than male applicants these days and more women are choosing to go to college. Only VMI and Virginia Tech are majority male. The rest of the Virginia public colleges and universities are majority female. Overall the Virginia higher ed system was 56% female for 2018 enrolled class and the U.S. was 57%. Here are the percentage of females at Virginia schools for fall 2018 new enrolled students:

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
Norfolk State 65%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
UVA - Wise 53%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

Interesting. women seem to dig these schools. But maybe not George Mason so much. Shocker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

Perhaps that's a factor, but there are simply more qualified female applicants than male applicants these days and more women are choosing to go to college. Only VMI and Virginia Tech are majority male. The rest of the Virginia public colleges and universities are majority female. Overall the Virginia higher ed system was 56% female for 2018 enrolled class and the U.S. was 57%. Here are the percentage of females at Virginia schools for fall 2018 new enrolled students:

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
Norfolk State 65%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
UVA - Wise 53%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

Interesting. women seem to dig these schools. But maybe not George Mason so much. Shocker.

Both GMU and Va Tech have lower attraction rates because their strongest fields are research (GMU is the no. 1 research university in VA), engineering (xlnt at both), STEM, cyber security (GMU), game design (GMU), computer science (both), architecture (Va Tech), animal husbandry (Va Tech), math, etc. A lot of female students want the liberal arts SLAC experience which is not Va Tech or GMU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

Perhaps that's a factor, but there are simply more qualified female applicants than male applicants these days and more women are choosing to go to college. Only VMI and Virginia Tech are majority male. The rest of the Virginia public colleges and universities are majority female. Overall the Virginia higher ed system was 56% female for 2018 enrolled class and the U.S. was 57%. Here are the percentage of females at Virginia schools for fall 2018 new enrolled students:

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
Norfolk State 65%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
UVA - Wise 53%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

Interesting. women seem to dig these schools. But maybe not George Mason so much. Shocker.

Both GMU and Va Tech have lower attraction rates because their strongest fields are research (GMU is the no. 1 research university in VA), engineering (xlnt at both), STEM, cyber security (GMU), game design (GMU), computer science (both), architecture (Va Tech), animal husbandry (Va Tech), math, etc. A lot of female students want the liberal arts SLAC experience which is not Va Tech or GMU

Based on what measure is GMU #1 in Virginia? For 2017, GMU was 146 in R&D expenditure, VT was 46, UVA was 51, VCU was 97 according to NSF data. Research per se is not a factor anyway. UNC Chapel Hill was 11 in R&D yet is over 60% female. Engineering does tend to have a higher percentage of males.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

Perhaps that's a factor, but there are simply more qualified female applicants than male applicants these days and more women are choosing to go to college. Only VMI and Virginia Tech are majority male. The rest of the Virginia public colleges and universities are majority female. Overall the Virginia higher ed system was 56% female for 2018 enrolled class and the U.S. was 57%. Here are the percentage of females at Virginia schools for fall 2018 new enrolled students:

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
Norfolk State 65%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
UVA - Wise 53%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

Interesting. women seem to dig these schools. But maybe not George Mason so much. Shocker.

Both GMU and Va Tech have lower attraction rates because their strongest fields are research (GMU is the no. 1 research university in VA), engineering (xlnt at both), STEM, cyber security (GMU), game design (GMU), computer science (both), architecture (Va Tech), animal husbandry (Va Tech), math, etc. A lot of female students want the liberal arts SLAC experience which is not Va Tech or GMU

Based on what measure is GMU #1 in Virginia? For 2017, GMU was 146 in R&D expenditure, VT was 46, UVA was 51, VCU was 97 according to NSF data. Research per se is not a factor anyway. UNC Chapel Hill was 11 in R&D yet is over 60% female. Engineering does tend to have a higher percentage of males.

I said top tier for research in VA. Right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University. And also if you google George Mason and research you will learn this: Mason, rated a top-tier (R1) research university by the Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Education,

[Anonymous]

George Mason University has expanded rapidly in less than 50 years of existence to become the largest public research university in the southeastern US state of Virginia.

Established in 1957 with just 17 students, as a branch of the University of Virginia, the university gained its independence in 1972 and today has tens of thousands of students from around 130 countries.

It offers 76 undergraduate majors and was the first university in the US to introduce doctoral programs in conflict resolution, information technology, bioinformatics and computational social science.

[Anonymous]

Why is it so difficult to believe that some students don’t rate their college by its sports team. For those that do there are many colleges to choose from. W&M is what it is and it’s doing fine. If it lost some ranking due to how well their Pell grant recipients did after college that’s just one of those fairly meaningless statistics. But if you have to have a football team (and watch a lot of young athletes suffer multiple concussions for your entertainment) go to a football school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

Perhaps that's a factor, but there are simply more qualified female applicants than male applicants these days and more women are choosing to go to college. Only VMI and Virginia Tech are majority male. The rest of the Virginia public colleges and universities are majority female. Overall the Virginia higher ed system was 56% female for 2018 enrolled class and the U.S. was 57%. Here are the percentage of females at Virginia schools for fall 2018 new enrolled students:

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
Norfolk State 65%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
UVA - Wise 53%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

Interesting. women seem to dig these schools. But maybe not George Mason so much. Shocker.

Both GMU and Va Tech have lower attraction rates because their strongest fields are research (GMU is the no. 1 research university in VA), engineering (xlnt at both), STEM, cyber security (GMU), game design (GMU), computer science (both), architecture (Va Tech), animal husbandry (Va Tech), math, etc. A lot of female students want the liberal arts SLAC experience which is not Va Tech or GMU

Based on what measure is GMU #1 in Virginia? For 2017, GMU was 146 in R&D expenditure, VT was 46, UVA was 51, VCU was 97 according to NSF data. Research per se is not a factor anyway. UNC Chapel Hill was 11 in R&D yet is over 60% female. Engineering does tend to have a higher percentage of males.

I said top tier for research in VA. Right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University. And also if you google George Mason and research you will learn this: Mason, rated a top-tier (R1) research university by the Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Education,

No, you said "GMU is the no. 1 research university in VA", not "top tier for research in VA".

UVA, VT, VCU, and GMU are R1 classifications. Of the 4, GMU has the lowest level of research, which isn't surprising given it doesn't have a medical school. ODU and W&M are R2 classifications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gender imbalance is not surprising for a LAC, which is what it is closer to than anything else. Virginia Tech, on the other hand, has a 57% male undergrad population

Perhaps that's a factor, but there are simply more qualified female applicants than male applicants these days and more women are choosing to go to college. Only VMI and Virginia Tech are majority male. The rest of the Virginia public colleges and universities are majority female. Overall the Virginia higher ed system was 56% female for 2018 enrolled class and the U.S. was 57%. Here are the percentage of females at Virginia schools for fall 2018 new enrolled students:

Longwood 69%
MWU 66%
Norfolk State 65%
VCU 64%
Radford 64%
JMU 59%
W&M 59%
UVA 57%
United States 57%
State of Virginia 56%
CNU 56%
ODU 53%
UVA - Wise 53%
GMU 50%
Virginia Tech 45%
VMI 17%

Interesting. women seem to dig these schools. But maybe not George Mason so much. Shocker.

Both GMU and Va Tech have lower attraction rates because their strongest fields are research (GMU is the no. 1 research university in VA), engineering (xlnt at both), STEM, cyber security (GMU), game design (GMU), computer science (both), architecture (Va Tech), animal husbandry (Va Tech), math, etc. A lot of female students want the liberal arts SLAC experience which is not Va Tech or GMU

Based on what measure is GMU #1 in Virginia? For 2017, GMU was 146 in R&D expenditure, VT was 46, UVA was 51, VCU was 97 according to NSF data. Research per se is not a factor anyway. UNC Chapel Hill was 11 in R&D yet is over 60% female. Engineering does tend to have a higher percentage of males.

I said top tier for research in VA. Right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University. And also if you google George Mason and research you will learn this: Mason, rated a top-tier (R1) research university by the Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Education,

No, you said "GMU is the no. 1 research university in VA", not "top tier for research in VA".

UVA, VT, VCU, and GMU are R1 classifications. Of the 4, GMU has the lowest level of research, which isn't surprising given it doesn't have a medical school. ODU and W&M are R2 classifications.

W&M only has a tiny handful of grad programs, but this ends up putting it in the "research university" category in this system rather than "national liberal arts colleges".