Husband can’t set a table and doesn’t care to learn how

[Anonymous]

He tried. My husband doesn’t know how to make a cup of coffee or sweep the kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I feel like I have a husband who is equally involved in household stuff and childcare. But we definitely both have stuff we care about more than the other one. I told him before we got married that I would never learn to put my shoes away — he does it for me. He isn’t organized with paperwork so I do all of that. He does all the laundry and puts his clothes away in a very particular way. If I suddenly had to do all the laundry, I would not notice which type hanger a particular kind of shirt went on. He cannot remember where my kid’s dance class is on Tuesday night even after months. He will go to the place she gets picked up on Mondays and Wednesdays if I don’t remind him. He’s obsessed with blowing any leaves out of the garage when we have people coming over (that will never set foot in the garage). Whatever. It all evens out in the end. But I’m not blowing the leaves out the garage because people are coming over — ever.

I'm the same. Happily married to a man with whom I agree on the important things and we both agree to let go of the little things. If he wants to spend time optimizing the wifi signal, have at it. If I want to spend time organizing the pantry cupboards, I'm free to do so. But neither of us expects the other to care.

Putting healthy food on the table for our family? That's a priority. How the silverware and napkins end up on the table? Not a priority.

9:39 PP here

I also think this is a perfectly acceptable outlook - there are things one spouse doesn't care about, and the other spouse is good with that - as long as it goes both ways.

OP's H doesn't care about table settings, fine. But then he shouldn't give OP grief about not caring if they have the right type of snacks or beer at home, or if the screwdriver gets put back in the garage rather than the junk drawer (random examples that are stereotypical dude-like)

This is a bit too black and white to work in real life, but I'd imagine each spouse gets 10 things they care about and can ask the other person to care about. Things beyond that have to be handled by the person who cares. Or maybe it's not 10 things but 10 hours worth of things a month. Or maybe you use an external scale for ridiculousness to decide if someone has to care if their spouse cares about X or Y. I don't know, but I don't like your tit for tat idea because it seems petty and frankly kind of nasty.

I don't bean count with my husband but I think we'd both agree that I am the pickier of the two and therefore there are more things that I care about that he respects than vice versa, so it's not exactly an even trade. But, for example, if I decided that I wanted him to load the dishwasher in a particular way (I'm not talking an efficient way, I'm talking a crazy OCD type way) then I could imagine him saying, you know what, that's on you, I'll handle the hand washing and you can load the dishwasher your very specific (and unnecessary) way. Or if he wanted me to park the car inside the garage within a chalk outline because it made him feel best if it was exactly the same distance from all the walls, I'd say you know, that's on you, feel free to move it after I've gotten home.

I don't think one spouse gets to use the other's refusal to do X as a reason to say well then I won't care about Y. I don't know what the metric is because I've never had to think about it - somehow my spouse and I have always been able to discuss what we care about and ask the other person to do in a way that works for us and have for 20 years - but your response rubs me the wrong way and I feel like it would lead to resentment.

I think enough people have posted that they don't care about table settings to make this something that OP reasonably needs to take on herself. Or, if she really, really cares about it then she can make it a priority, understanding that she may be swapping this out for something else she asks her husband to care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I feel like I have a husband who is equally involved in household stuff and childcare. But we definitely both have stuff we care about more than the other one. I told him before we got married that I would never learn to put my shoes away — he does it for me. He isn’t organized with paperwork so I do all of that. He does all the laundry and puts his clothes away in a very particular way. If I suddenly had to do all the laundry, I would not notice which type hanger a particular kind of shirt went on. He cannot remember where my kid’s dance class is on Tuesday night even after months. He will go to the place she gets picked up on Mondays and Wednesdays if I don’t remind him. He’s obsessed with blowing any leaves out of the garage when we have people coming over (that will never set foot in the garage). Whatever. It all evens out in the end. But I’m not blowing the leaves out the garage because people are coming over — ever.

I'm the same. Happily married to a man with whom I agree on the important things and we both agree to let go of the little things. If he wants to spend time optimizing the wifi signal, have at it. If I want to spend time organizing the pantry cupboards, I'm free to do so. But neither of us expects the other to care.

Putting healthy food on the table for our family? That's a priority. How the silverware and napkins end up on the table? Not a priority.

9:39 PP here

I also think this is a perfectly acceptable outlook - there are things one spouse doesn't care about, and the other spouse is good with that - as long as it goes both ways.

OP's H doesn't care about table settings, fine. But then he shouldn't give OP grief about not caring if they have the right type of snacks or beer at home, or if the screwdriver gets put back in the garage rather than the junk drawer (random examples that are stereotypical dude-like)

People in normal healthy marriages already know this, and live this way, which is why they can't understand OPs insistence that he must care about the table setting. The unhappily married people are the ones doling out the bad advice that he better care as much or more than OP about something she never bothered to find out about prior to marriage in order to pass this test to prove his love decades later. Ridiculous.

THIS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP's husband does care about the task or about what matters to her. He could learn. As a PP pointed out, a 4YO could learn. And if his boss asked him to, he would get it right on the first try.

So the bad news is that the husband doesn't care enough to make minimal effort. The good news is that OP now knows this and can stop doing things that are important to him but not her.

And if she's worried about judgment from her in-laws or something, she can just explain: I realized I could do everything to a certain standard, which would mean I did everything, or I could just leave the manchild to his own devices, and you see the results before you.

It's almost like you're the author of all these idiotic "husband doesn't care about things I care about" posts so you can keep bleating this advice over and over again. Did you copy and paste this from the egg hunt thread?

No. But I think men are capable of learning how to do the things that keep a house running and enable children to become members of more-or-less civilized society. And I think many men think those things just somehow happen.

I know that there are things I care about and my husband doesn’t, and I feel fine either doing them myself or going without. But there are other things he either doesn't care about and has therefore deemed unimportant, regardless of how the rest of the family feels, or that he cares about enough to use "we" but really means me.

At this point I do the stuff I care about and nothing that only he cares about. Thank goodness our kids are grown. And that I've taught them to give a shit about other people's feelings. Not to the exclusion of their own, but I can state a preference or ask them to pitch in without being treated like a controlling harpy.

Great, so you're here to give everyone the "do as I say, not as I do" advice?

No, I'm here to push back against the people saying she should stop having preferences and that it's unreasonable to think he should listen to her. She's reasonable, he's a douche, and she needs to figure out how to make this bearable.

Please make sure to mark all your future advice with *unhappily married to a man I detest* so that we can get a sense of where you're coming from. Thanks.

I'm not PP but I find this assumption telling. Some of us are pushing back on the "men can't do this stuff" narrative because we are happily married to men who easily do stuff like this. My son has no issues setting up things and listening either.

I actually find it troubling this narrative that men and boys are incapable of detail and basic executive function. It's infantilizing and insulting to men.

I’m just too busy. That’s the reason. Too busy. On my phone, with my office work. Too busy.

I mean if you're too busy to do something that takes 5 minutes for your wife, that's a problem. You're saying your phone is more of a priority.

I'm a busy working mom, I really don't care about Pokémon but I've learned to play the card game so I can play with my husband and son and understand their hobbies. That's just what families do.

That’s what women do. Not most males.

Based on your limited experience of 1 who doesn't seem to like you much? Did you have a shotgun wedding? Why did you rush into a marriage with someone you couldn't be bothered to get to know?

+1

I can think of at least one thing that every husband I know does for their wife even though they don't care about it. Then again, my friends tend to be married to quality men, so maybe that's the problem with your sample?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I make between one and three dishes and have them sitting on the cooktop. Everyone gets their plate, takes what they want, gets a fork and something to drink and takes it to the table. The only thing I put on the table is cut up fruit in a bowl.
Does this bother my husband? Yes. He grew up in a family where the table was set and the meat-and-potato food was all plated and set before him by Mom. But he’s used to my ways and he’s certainly not going to start cooking and setting the table.
So I think if this matters to you, you’ll have to do it or teach your kids to do it.

Same. My husband doesn’t notice that he mom is all about many Serving Platters every meal and we’re not.

That said, he’s knows how to set the table with cutlery on the correct side and the glass.

What is the correct side of the glass, who decided, and why? And is it the same for right and left handed diners? Why or why not?

The glass goes on the right side. Above the knife.

I don’t know who decided. It doesn’t matter.

It is the same for everyone.

The reason is so that you don’t accidentally drink out of someone else’s glass at a sit down dinner.

So the important thing by that logic is that the glass is on the *same* side for all place settings, isn’t it? Right or left doesn’t actually matter.

In my family, we actually all have our own glasses that are different colors, so we could put them in the middle of the table and there would be no accidental sippage out of the wrong one!

IOW, there’s more than one way to skin a cat, ladies.

No. Right or left matters. You don’t make up your own rules of etiquette in every family. The purpose is that they are the same everywhere you go, so that people who don’t know each other don’t have to figure this stuff out every time. Like walking on the right side of a hallway. Or waiting for people to get off the elevator before you get on.

Every single time you sit down at a restaurant or a wedding or a sit down dinner party, the fork will be on the left, the knife will be on the right, and your glass will be on the right side above the knife.

Re: the bolded - you absolutely do! Random strangers don’t get to dictate how I set MY table in MY home.

Where do you put the glass if there is no knife? Please don’t tell me you set the table with a knife regardless of whether or not a knife is required… that’s just moronic.

Keep screaming at clouds, Grandma! And PLEASE never leave the country; I don’t think you’ll survive.

You can do whatever you want to. These aren’t laws. They are ways of smoothing out social interactions between strangers so everyone is more comfortable and knows what to expect.

I don’t set out knives if we aren’t using knives. If you don’t have a knife, you put the glass on the right side of the plate, as if there were a knife there.

Sounds like they’re also ways of causing unnecessary strife within households so everyone is less happy.

I care more about my family than Emily Post loving randos, but you do you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.

Why is that a problem?

Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.

The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.

I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.

Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.

Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?

Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just set the table yourself if it's important to you. This seems like a lot of stress over something that would take you two minutes. Let him cook or clean or do something he actually sees value in.

But it takes zero minutes to do it correctly if you are already doing it. You have to set the fork down somewhere. Why not put it where it goes?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP's husband does care about the task or about what matters to her. He could learn. As a PP pointed out, a 4YO could learn. And if his boss asked him to, he would get it right on the first try.

So the bad news is that the husband doesn't care enough to make minimal effort. The good news is that OP now knows this and can stop doing things that are important to him but not her.

And if she's worried about judgment from her in-laws or something, she can just explain: I realized I could do everything to a certain standard, which would mean I did everything, or I could just leave the manchild to his own devices, and you see the results before you.

It's almost like you're the author of all these idiotic "husband doesn't care about things I care about" posts so you can keep bleating this advice over and over again. Did you copy and paste this from the egg hunt thread?

No. But I think men are capable of learning how to do the things that keep a house running and enable children to become members of more-or-less civilized society. And I think many men think those things just somehow happen.

I know that there are things I care about and my husband doesn’t, and I feel fine either doing them myself or going without. But there are other things he either doesn't care about and has therefore deemed unimportant, regardless of how the rest of the family feels, or that he cares about enough to use "we" but really means me.

At this point I do the stuff I care about and nothing that only he cares about. Thank goodness our kids are grown. And that I've taught them to give a shit about other people's feelings. Not to the exclusion of their own, but I can state a preference or ask them to pitch in without being treated like a controlling harpy.

Great, so you're here to give everyone the "do as I say, not as I do" advice?

No, I'm here to push back against the people saying she should stop having preferences and that it's unreasonable to think he should listen to her. She's reasonable, he's a douche, and she needs to figure out how to make this bearable.

Please make sure to mark all your future advice with *unhappily married to a man I detest* so that we can get a sense of where you're coming from. Thanks.

I'm not PP but I find this assumption telling. Some of us are pushing back on the "men can't do this stuff" narrative because we are happily married to men who easily do stuff like this. My son has no issues setting up things and listening either.

I actually find it troubling this narrative that men and boys are incapable of detail and basic executive function. It's infantilizing and insulting to men.

I’m just too busy. That’s the reason. Too busy. On my phone, with my office work. Too busy.

I mean if you're too busy to do something that takes 5 minutes for your wife, that's a problem. You're saying your phone is more of a priority.

I'm a busy working mom, I really don't care about Pokémon but I've learned to play the card game so I can play with my husband and son and understand their hobbies. That's just what families do.

That’s what women do. Not most males.

Boy you have a grim view of men. My Dad loved getting interested in our stuff as kids. He read Harry Potter with us and took my brother and I to midnight parties. A good Dad absolutely gets interested in their kids stuff and puts effort in.

My Dad didn't know anything about lacrosse and learned all sorts of it for my brother.

A lot of y'all sound like you don't like your families very much if you're not willing to do basic tasks because it means something to your partner or kids.

You're both right and wrong. For yourself, you should always be willing to do tasks other people want you to do, but you should never expect or get mad at someone else for not doing that. That double standard is the real key to marital happiness: have high expectations of yourself, and expect very little in return.

Nah, that's BS. You shouldn't be with someone who expects you to do everything for them and does nothing in return. That's just being a doormat.

And yet I'm very happy in my marriage, and OP isn't. Her unhappiness is a choice. I choose to be happy.

If you're really happy with a partner who won't do tasks for you, I'm sorry. It sounds like you have really low self esteem. You really do deserve better.

I'm certainly it going to teach my sons to either give or accept that kind of treatment. That's just sad.

Aren't you the one in the miserable marriage? It's like a chronically unemployed person giving career advice.

Nope, I don't know who you think you're responding to.

My husband will hear me mention "oh I liked that book" and arrange a date night to see Project Hail Mary without being asked. The kind of guy who will play hundreds of games of Exploding Kittens with our boys because it makes them happy.

That's what you should want. And that's what you should give back.

And multiple people have said they have their things about the way the house is run and their spouse has theirs and it works for them. WTH are you to decide there's only one right way?

Exactly! Once you realize your partner’s habits don’t pass a basic bar of manner, hygiene, or respect, and they have no interest in improving those bad habits, dump them or divorce them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband does care about the task or about what matters to her. He could learn. As a PP pointed out, a 4YO could learn. And if his boss asked him to, he would get it right on the first try.

So the bad news is that the husband doesn't care enough to make minimal effort. The good news is that OP now knows this and can stop doing things that are important to him but not her.

And if she's worried about judgment from her in-laws or something, she can just explain: I realized I could do everything to a certain standard, which would mean I did everything, or I could just leave the manchild to his own devices, and you see the results before you.

It's almost like you're the author of all these idiotic "husband doesn't care about things I care about" posts so you can keep bleating this advice over and over again. Did you copy and paste this from the egg hunt thread?

No. But I think men are capable of learning how to do the things that keep a house running and enable children to become members of more-or-less civilized society. And I think many men think those things just somehow happen.

I know that there are things I care about and my husband doesn’t, and I feel fine either doing them myself or going without. But there are other things he either doesn't care about and has therefore deemed unimportant, regardless of how the rest of the family feels, or that he cares about enough to use "we" but really means me.

At this point I do the stuff I care about and nothing that only he cares about. Thank goodness our kids are grown. And that I've taught them to give a shit about other people's feelings. Not to the exclusion of their own, but I can state a preference or ask them to pitch in without being treated like a controlling harpy.

Great, so you're here to give everyone the "do as I say, not as I do" advice?

No, I'm here to push back against the people saying she should stop having preferences and that it's unreasonable to think he should listen to her. She's reasonable, he's a douche, and she needs to figure out how to make this bearable.

Please make sure to mark all your future advice with *unhappily married to a man I detest* so that we can get a sense of where you're coming from. Thanks.

I'm not PP but I find this assumption telling. Some of us are pushing back on the "men can't do this stuff" narrative because we are happily married to men who easily do stuff like this. My son has no issues setting up things and listening either.

I actually find it troubling this narrative that men and boys are incapable of detail and basic executive function. It's infantilizing and insulting to men.

I’m just too busy. That’s the reason. Too busy. On my phone, with my office work. Too busy.

I mean if you're too busy to do something that takes 5 minutes for your wife, that's a problem. You're saying your phone is more of a priority.

I'm a busy working mom, I really don't care about Pokémon but I've learned to play the card game so I can play with my husband and son and understand their hobbies. That's just what families do.

That’s what women do. Not most males.

Boy you have a grim view of men. My Dad loved getting interested in our stuff as kids. He read Harry Potter with us and took my brother and I to midnight parties. A good Dad absolutely gets interested in their kids stuff and puts effort in.

My Dad didn't know anything about lacrosse and learned all sorts of it for my brother.

A lot of y'all sound like you don't like your families very much if you're not willing to do basic tasks because it means something to your partner or kids.

You're both right and wrong. For yourself, you should always be willing to do tasks other people want you to do, but you should never expect or get mad at someone else for not doing that. That double standard is the real key to marital happiness: have high expectations of yourself, and expect very little in return.

Nah, that's BS. You shouldn't be with someone who expects you to do everything for them and does nothing in return. That's just being a doormat.

And yet I'm very happy in my marriage, and OP isn't. Her unhappiness is a choice. I choose to be happy.

DP. Part of the happiness in my marriage comes from doing things for my husband that make him happy and having him do things for me that make me happy. Does he have to bring me a cup of coffee in bed in the morning? Of course not, I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself. Does he do it anyway? Yes and it's sweet and I love it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I actually have the same problem. After 26 years, DH still puts the napkin on the right with the knife and spoon on it and it drives me crazy. But I just change it and don’t make a federal case out of it.

Why is that a problem?

Because Princess is putting on airs acting like Tuesday supper is a State Dinner.

The rules of etiquette are the same everywhere. There is not one set of rules for Tuesday supper and a completely different one for a State Dinner.

I think this is comforting for kids. It can bring a sense of normalcy even in extreme situations. Ma Ingalls made sure that the girls set the table correctly out on the frontier. So did the Girl Guide leaders at the Weixian Internment Camp during WWII.

Establishing routines and patterns that can be followed in any situation makes difficult things psychologically easier to handle.

Who decided the rules of etiquette and under what authority?

Are you the same poster who insisted that it was ridiculous for kids to need a red sweater for the school chorus trip? You are a nightmare.

That makes me think you're the type of make work room parent who decided last minute on red sweaters, or crazy socks, or coordinated t-shirts without any input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband does care about the task or about what matters to her. He could learn. As a PP pointed out, a 4YO could learn. And if his boss asked him to, he would get it right on the first try.

So the bad news is that the husband doesn't care enough to make minimal effort. The good news is that OP now knows this and can stop doing things that are important to him but not her.

And if she's worried about judgment from her in-laws or something, she can just explain: I realized I could do everything to a certain standard, which would mean I did everything, or I could just leave the manchild to his own devices, and you see the results before you.

It's almost like you're the author of all these idiotic "husband doesn't care about things I care about" posts so you can keep bleating this advice over and over again. Did you copy and paste this from the egg hunt thread?

No. But I think men are capable of learning how to do the things that keep a house running and enable children to become members of more-or-less civilized society. And I think many men think those things just somehow happen.

I know that there are things I care about and my husband doesn’t, and I feel fine either doing them myself or going without. But there are other things he either doesn't care about and has therefore deemed unimportant, regardless of how the rest of the family feels, or that he cares about enough to use "we" but really means me.

At this point I do the stuff I care about and nothing that only he cares about. Thank goodness our kids are grown. And that I've taught them to give a shit about other people's feelings. Not to the exclusion of their own, but I can state a preference or ask them to pitch in without being treated like a controlling harpy.

Great, so you're here to give everyone the "do as I say, not as I do" advice?

No, I'm here to push back against the people saying she should stop having preferences and that it's unreasonable to think he should listen to her. She's reasonable, he's a douche, and she needs to figure out how to make this bearable.

Please make sure to mark all your future advice with *unhappily married to a man I detest* so that we can get a sense of where you're coming from. Thanks.

I'm not PP but I find this assumption telling. Some of us are pushing back on the "men can't do this stuff" narrative because we are happily married to men who easily do stuff like this. My son has no issues setting up things and listening either.

I actually find it troubling this narrative that men and boys are incapable of detail and basic executive function. It's infantilizing and insulting to men.

I’m just too busy. That’s the reason. Too busy. On my phone, with my office work. Too busy.

I mean if you're too busy to do something that takes 5 minutes for your wife, that's a problem. You're saying your phone is more of a priority.

I'm a busy working mom, I really don't care about Pokémon but I've learned to play the card game so I can play with my husband and son and understand their hobbies. That's just what families do.

That’s what women do. Not most males.

Boy you have a grim view of men. My Dad loved getting interested in our stuff as kids. He read Harry Potter with us and took my brother and I to midnight parties. A good Dad absolutely gets interested in their kids stuff and puts effort in.

My Dad didn't know anything about lacrosse and learned all sorts of it for my brother.

A lot of y'all sound like you don't like your families very much if you're not willing to do basic tasks because it means something to your partner or kids.

You're both right and wrong. For yourself, you should always be willing to do tasks other people want you to do, but you should never expect or get mad at someone else for not doing that. That double standard is the real key to marital happiness: have high expectations of yourself, and expect very little in return.

Nah, that's BS. You shouldn't be with someone who expects you to do everything for them and does nothing in return. That's just being a doormat.

And yet I'm very happy in my marriage, and OP isn't. Her unhappiness is a choice. I choose to be happy.

DP. Part of the happiness in my marriage comes from doing things for my husband that make him happy and having him do things for me that make me happy. Does he have to bring me a cup of coffee in bed in the morning? Of course not, I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself. Does he do it anyway? Yes and it's sweet and I love it.

I must have missed where OP said her husband never ever does anything to her liking. Or where she said she bent over backwards to please him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's husband does care about the task or about what matters to her. He could learn. As a PP pointed out, a 4YO could learn. And if his boss asked him to, he would get it right on the first try.

So the bad news is that the husband doesn't care enough to make minimal effort. The good news is that OP now knows this and can stop doing things that are important to him but not her.

And if she's worried about judgment from her in-laws or something, she can just explain: I realized I could do everything to a certain standard, which would mean I did everything, or I could just leave the manchild to his own devices, and you see the results before you.

It's almost like you're the author of all these idiotic "husband doesn't care about things I care about" posts so you can keep bleating this advice over and over again. Did you copy and paste this from the egg hunt thread?

No. But I think men are capable of learning how to do the things that keep a house running and enable children to become members of more-or-less civilized society. And I think many men think those things just somehow happen.

I know that there are things I care about and my husband doesn’t, and I feel fine either doing them myself or going without. But there are other things he either doesn't care about and has therefore deemed unimportant, regardless of how the rest of the family feels, or that he cares about enough to use "we" but really means me.

At this point I do the stuff I care about and nothing that only he cares about. Thank goodness our kids are grown. And that I've taught them to give a shit about other people's feelings. Not to the exclusion of their own, but I can state a preference or ask them to pitch in without being treated like a controlling harpy.

Great, so you're here to give everyone the "do as I say, not as I do" advice?

No, I'm here to push back against the people saying she should stop having preferences and that it's unreasonable to think he should listen to her. She's reasonable, he's a douche, and she needs to figure out how to make this bearable.

Please make sure to mark all your future advice with *unhappily married to a man I detest* so that we can get a sense of where you're coming from. Thanks.

I'm not PP but I find this assumption telling. Some of us are pushing back on the "men can't do this stuff" narrative because we are happily married to men who easily do stuff like this. My son has no issues setting up things and listening either.

I actually find it troubling this narrative that men and boys are incapable of detail and basic executive function. It's infantilizing and insulting to men.

I’m just too busy. That’s the reason. Too busy. On my phone, with my office work. Too busy.

I mean if you're too busy to do something that takes 5 minutes for your wife, that's a problem. You're saying your phone is more of a priority.

I'm a busy working mom, I really don't care about Pokémon but I've learned to play the card game so I can play with my husband and son and understand their hobbies. That's just what families do.

That’s what women do. Not most males.

Boy you have a grim view of men. My Dad loved getting interested in our stuff as kids. He read Harry Potter with us and took my brother and I to midnight parties. A good Dad absolutely gets interested in their kids stuff and puts effort in.

My Dad didn't know anything about lacrosse and learned all sorts of it for my brother.

A lot of y'all sound like you don't like your families very much if you're not willing to do basic tasks because it means something to your partner or kids.

You're both right and wrong. For yourself, you should always be willing to do tasks other people want you to do, but you should never expect or get mad at someone else for not doing that. That double standard is the real key to marital happiness: have high expectations of yourself, and expect very little in return.

Nah, that's BS. You shouldn't be with someone who expects you to do everything for them and does nothing in return. That's just being a doormat.

And yet I'm very happy in my marriage, and OP isn't. Her unhappiness is a choice. I choose to be happy.

If you're really happy with a partner who won't do tasks for you, I'm sorry. It sounds like you have really low self esteem. You really do deserve better.

I'm certainly it going to teach my sons to either give or accept that kind of treatment. That's just sad.

Aren't you the one in the miserable marriage? It's like a chronically unemployed person giving career advice.

Nope, I don't know who you think you're responding to.

My husband will hear me mention "oh I liked that book" and arrange a date night to see Project Hail Mary without being asked. The kind of guy who will play hundreds of games of Exploding Kittens with our boys because it makes them happy.

That's what you should want. And that's what you should give back.

And multiple people have said they have their things about the way the house is run and their spouse has theirs and it works for them. WTH are you to decide there's only one right way?

I'm curious what you think marriage should look like if "your partner should care about your happiness and your kids happiness" is a controversial statement.

My happiness is not dependent on doing things my way or caring about trivial things the way I care about them, such as setting the table right.

Our daughter’s now husband did that old fashioned, Ask for her hand in marriage thing.

We told him two things-
1- you don’t need to ask us, ask her
2- will you seek to make our daughter happy?

Life’s that simple folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He tried. My husband doesn’t know how to make a cup of coffee or sweep the kitchen.

I think this is less like learning to make coffee and more like your husband refusing to pour your coffee into the coffee mug you like.
Just why?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP's husband does care about the task or about what matters to her. He could learn. As a PP pointed out, a 4YO could learn. And if his boss asked him to, he would get it right on the first try.

So the bad news is that the husband doesn't care enough to make minimal effort. The good news is that OP now knows this and can stop doing things that are important to him but not her.

And if she's worried about judgment from her in-laws or something, she can just explain: I realized I could do everything to a certain standard, which would mean I did everything, or I could just leave the manchild to his own devices, and you see the results before you.

It's almost like you're the author of all these idiotic "husband doesn't care about things I care about" posts so you can keep bleating this advice over and over again. Did you copy and paste this from the egg hunt thread?

No. But I think men are capable of learning how to do the things that keep a house running and enable children to become members of more-or-less civilized society. And I think many men think those things just somehow happen.

I know that there are things I care about and my husband doesn’t, and I feel fine either doing them myself or going without. But there are other things he either doesn't care about and has therefore deemed unimportant, regardless of how the rest of the family feels, or that he cares about enough to use "we" but really means me.

At this point I do the stuff I care about and nothing that only he cares about. Thank goodness our kids are grown. And that I've taught them to give a shit about other people's feelings. Not to the exclusion of their own, but I can state a preference or ask them to pitch in without being treated like a controlling harpy.

Great, so you're here to give everyone the "do as I say, not as I do" advice?

No, I'm here to push back against the people saying she should stop having preferences and that it's unreasonable to think he should listen to her. She's reasonable, he's a douche, and she needs to figure out how to make this bearable.

Please make sure to mark all your future advice with *unhappily married to a man I detest* so that we can get a sense of where you're coming from. Thanks.

I'm not PP but I find this assumption telling. Some of us are pushing back on the "men can't do this stuff" narrative because we are happily married to men who easily do stuff like this. My son has no issues setting up things and listening either.

I actually find it troubling this narrative that men and boys are incapable of detail and basic executive function. It's infantilizing and insulting to men.

I’m just too busy. That’s the reason. Too busy. On my phone, with my office work. Too busy.

I mean if you're too busy to do something that takes 5 minutes for your wife, that's a problem. You're saying your phone is more of a priority.

I'm a busy working mom, I really don't care about Pokémon but I've learned to play the card game so I can play with my husband and son and understand their hobbies. That's just what families do.

That’s what women do. Not most males.

Boy you have a grim view of men. My Dad loved getting interested in our stuff as kids. He read Harry Potter with us and took my brother and I to midnight parties. A good Dad absolutely gets interested in their kids stuff and puts effort in.

My Dad didn't know anything about lacrosse and learned all sorts of it for my brother.

A lot of y'all sound like you don't like your families very much if you're not willing to do basic tasks because it means something to your partner or kids.

You're both right and wrong. For yourself, you should always be willing to do tasks other people want you to do, but you should never expect or get mad at someone else for not doing that. That double standard is the real key to marital happiness: have high expectations of yourself, and expect very little in return.

Nah, that's BS. You shouldn't be with someone who expects you to do everything for them and does nothing in return. That's just being a doormat.

And yet I'm very happy in my marriage, and OP isn't. Her unhappiness is a choice. I choose to be happy.

If you're really happy with a partner who won't do tasks for you, I'm sorry. It sounds like you have really low self esteem. You really do deserve better.

I'm certainly it going to teach my sons to either give or accept that kind of treatment. That's just sad.

Aren't you the one in the miserable marriage? It's like a chronically unemployed person giving career advice.

Nope, I don't know who you think you're responding to.

My husband will hear me mention "oh I liked that book" and arrange a date night to see Project Hail Mary without being asked. The kind of guy who will play hundreds of games of Exploding Kittens with our boys because it makes them happy.

That's what you should want. And that's what you should give back.

And multiple people have said they have their things about the way the house is run and their spouse has theirs and it works for them. WTH are you to decide there's only one right way?

I'm curious what you think marriage should look like if "your partner should care about your happiness and your kids happiness" is a controversial statement.

My happiness is not dependent on doing things my way or caring about trivial things the way I care about them, such as setting the table right.

I would love to invite your spouse to this conversation...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just set the table yourself if it's important to you. This seems like a lot of stress over something that would take you two minutes. Let him cook or clean or do something he actually sees value in.

But it takes zero minutes to do it correctly if you are already doing it. You have to set the fork down somewhere. Why not put it where it goes?

It can go all together for people who prefer to eat more buffet style. They actually make things like utensil caddies specifically for this. Are you going to tell us that's all wrong? We do almost all our holiday dinners like this. I guess we all just hate each other.