Millennial women are saying no thanks to parenthood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We'll see what they think of their decision in 40 years when they end up in a nursing home with no kids or family to visit.

That can happen even if you do have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see this a lot on various social media sites: TikTok, Reddit, etc.

I have 3 kids and I’m 41 so an “elderly millennial.” And I started in my late twenties do my kids are teens now. But I really don’t think my life has been that hard or that bad? It’s not like every second has been stress free but overall the joys of kids vastly outweigh the cons imho.

I don’t get why millennials seem to think it is unrelenting misery. Kids add a lot to your life: love, joy, laughter, purpose, meaning, connection, etc.

I agree. I don't get it.

Their Boomer parents turned them into self-absorbed, incompetent, humorless people.

Go Gen X parents with Gen Z kids! Much more fun.

[Anonymous]

I don't fit my kid into my lifestyle very well because she has special needs, very high rigidity, a lot of phobias, and is an extremely picky eater. We definitely used to try and have just tag along o our errands and social outings, but as she's gotten older that's often become more trouble than it's worth.

[Anonymous]

Society needs to treat women better and support us if they expect us to have babies. Health care, post parum care, childcare, everything.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.

This is true of my female friends, but less true of a few men I know who have remained childless into middle age. Women in most cultures are more conditioned than men to derive meaning and purpose from having children, which is important because women typically make the most sacrifices.

PP here and I know two men who are mid-to-late 40s, one is divorced and one is never married. Neither had kids, and I know they are both kind of devastated about it. One of them has a very high flying career in a really elite field, the kind of job that really impresses other people and where he has genuine influence over things most people would deem important. The other works in medicine. I think they both feel they just kind of never had a chance to have kids.

That doesn't mean that if they'd had kids, they wouldn't have expected their wives to make the bigger sacrifice. In fact in both case I feel confident they would have, and that this might have played a role in them not finding partners. Which actually speaks directly to this thread -- I think more and more women are either looking at their dating pool OR looking at their male partners and realizing that having kids with these guys would help fulfill the men while the woman does most of the work.

And as someone who is married with a a kid... they are not wrong. Men do want kids. But it's women who have to make it happen, and increasingly, they choose not to, and for good reasons.

Late 40s ... they both may still end up marrying someone who is 28-35 and wants to have kids and stay home with them; again, the injustices.

Yea. Men in their late 40s are actually a catch with their established careers. My friend had his first at 50 and his wife is 38. He has lived a great life and will continue to do so while his wife does most of the childcare. Women and men are not the same when it comes having children.

He'll be lucky to see his kids graduate from college.

Oh come on. 50 is old for a dad yes. But when his kid graduates from college he’ll be about 72. That’s younger than a significant number of our members of Congress! I know anything can happen, but making it to your early 70s isn’t “lucky” as long as you take care of yourself even remotely well.

Life expectency for men in the US is 73. So yeah, he will be fortunate to see his kids graduate from college, let alone attend their wedding or meet his grandkids.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/why-american-men-die-younger-than-women-on-average-and-how-to-fix-it.html

That's the average US men, not the rich ones who have their first kids in early 50s. That 73 y.o. average life expectancy includes people who die of alcohol related liver failure in their 40s and overdose in their 30s.

If you really want some meaningful statistics, look up the pension valuation table - employed white collar men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have three kids and I adore them, but I can *fully understand* why someone might elect not to have children.

Yep this. My sister has no kids. She has a pretty awesome life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have three kids and I adore them, but I can *fully understand* why someone might elect not to have children.

Yep this. My sister has no kids. She has a pretty awesome life.

I think the lifestyle would be awesome until you hit like your 70s/80s. I see these childless old people, and it's very sad to see how no one visits them. Their friends have mostly died off, and they have very few friends left.

Hopefully your sister will be close to her nieces/nephews. My SIL is childless, and I've told my kids to remain connected to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have three kids and I adore them, but I can *fully understand* why someone might elect not to have children.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Cringe. Imagine the thousands of years of couples that got together and sacrificed to ultimately get you into this world (including your parents) only to have that genetic line come to an abrupt halt because you think you know better because you went to university and read Twitter. Sad world to live in.

Or only having a daughter who marries and rids the family name! The horror!!!

No, having a daughter is completely fine. At least you did your part to continue the unique history of your family tree. The tree didn’t just wither and die bc “I want to go to brunch for the rest of my life”. And this rant is only directed at people who are “childless by choice” or people who have just given up on family formation due to lifestyle. If you are medically unable that’s a tragic burden to bear and I feel for you.

I’m childless by choice and I never go to brunch—this is just a glib, lazy jab. I didn’t think I’d be a good mother, and the kindest thing I could do for my potential children was not to inflict myself on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have three kids and I adore them, but I can *fully understand* why someone might elect not to have children.

Yep this. My sister has no kids. She has a pretty awesome life.

I think the lifestyle would be awesome until you hit like your 70s/80s. I see these childless old people, and it's very sad to see how no one visits them. Their friends have mostly died off, and they have very few friends left.

Hopefully your sister will be close to her nieces/nephews. My SIL is childless, and I've told my kids to remain connected to her.

Your kids might see you 4x a year if you are a great mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

Lol right? Reminds me of when my dad told me he hoped my wedding day was the best day of my life.

I laughed and said nah, nothing will top the day I got into HYP.

I think he was pretty proud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Millennial men expect their millennial wives to have solid careers and to keep working after kids, without skipping a beat. The women are saying no thanks to that particular type of parenthood, because they know their husbands aren't going to take on 50% of domestic labor and childcare. And also because, outside of the DCUM bubble, most women aren't all that career-driven, especially after kids. They just aren't. If SAHM was a realistic option for more millennial women, we'd see more of them saying yes to parenthood.

So are millennial men resorting back to 1950s men? I'm young Gen X (late 40s) and the men I know are really, really involved fathers.

No, because they also don’t even want to provide.

+1 At least 1950s men had no expectations that their wives would work FT on top of doing all the cooking, cleaning, and childcare. Millennial men think women who want to stay home raising kids are lazy gold diggers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

+1 and I'm a working mom. Even my work is probably more meaningful as a means of providing for my kids, or to show them the value of hard work and perseverance, than in terms of the actual impact my work has on the world at large. Most jobs just really are not that meaningful. If you have a very meaningful job, more power to you, but most people I know (men and women) feel the same.

Even my friends without kids would not tell you their jobs are true achievements. Some have really invested a lot of themselves in volunteer work, some are just very invested in their friendships and other relationships (including their friends' kids). I have a couple who are clearly very depressed because they have hit middle age and realized their jobs aren't that meaningful (even in careers where you'd think there was more built-in meaning, like medicine, teaching, and diplomacy) and are struggling with never having kids and not really knowing where to go from there. I think it's tough. They'll figure it out and find some way to build meaning in, but having kids sure is an easy shortcut to that kind of fulfillment.

This is true of my female friends, but less true of a few men I know who have remained childless into middle age. Women in most cultures are more conditioned than men to derive meaning and purpose from having children, which is important because women typically make the most sacrifices.

PP here and I know two men who are mid-to-late 40s, one is divorced and one is never married. Neither had kids, and I know they are both kind of devastated about it. One of them has a very high flying career in a really elite field, the kind of job that really impresses other people and where he has genuine influence over things most people would deem important. The other works in medicine. I think they both feel they just kind of never had a chance to have kids.

That doesn't mean that if they'd had kids, they wouldn't have expected their wives to make the bigger sacrifice. In fact in both case I feel confident they would have, and that this might have played a role in them not finding partners. Which actually speaks directly to this thread -- I think more and more women are either looking at their dating pool OR looking at their male partners and realizing that having kids with these guys would help fulfill the men while the woman does most of the work.

And as someone who is married with a a kid... they are not wrong. Men do want kids. But it's women who have to make it happen, and increasingly, they choose not to, and for good reasons.

Late 40s ... they both may still end up marrying someone who is 28-35 and wants to have kids and stay home with them; again, the injustices.

Yea. Men in their late 40s are actually a catch with their established careers. My friend had his first at 50 and his wife is 38. He has lived a great life and will continue to do so while his wife does most of the childcare. Women and men are not the same when it comes having children.

He'll be lucky to see his kids graduate from college.

Oh come on. 50 is old for a dad yes. But when his kid graduates from college he’ll be about 72. That’s younger than a significant number of our members of Congress! I know anything can happen, but making it to your early 70s isn’t “lucky” as long as you take care of yourself even remotely well.

Life expectency for men in the US is 73. So yeah, he will be fortunate to see his kids graduate from college, let alone attend their wedding or meet his grandkids.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/01/why-american-men-die-younger-than-women-on-average-and-how-to-fix-it.html

That's the average US men, not the rich ones who have their first kids in early 50s. That 73 y.o. average life expectancy includes people who die of alcohol related liver failure in their 40s and overdose in their 30s.

If you really want some meaningful statistics, look up the pension valuation table - employed white collar men.

My point remains, he will be lucky to see his kids graduate from college. You act like doctors are the healthiest physical specimens to exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's behind a paywall.

I just know I'm one of four millennial siblings and the only one to have kids. I supposed there's still time for my siblings to change their minds, but not much as they are approaching 40, and they are all pretty resolved not to have kids.

It's the local paper. Buy a subscription.

But yes, I think people will be facing population collapse in many areas around the world. I don't know what it will look like but I'm scared for my poor kids.

A global population collapse?!? No. There are literally millions of young Africans that will ensure global population keeps growing.

This is literally what demographers are predicting. This NYT piece shows peak world population predicted around 2085 and a steep decline after that. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/18/opinion/human-population-global-growth.html

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a millennial and chalked up the lack of kids to being in a high-achieving cohort. Maybe half of us have kids? The other half aren't married. I don't many that are childless by choice (as far as I know). My friends both gay and straight that are married by in large have kids usually 2-3. But I myself hit total unexplained secondary infertility at 35 so have 2 kids but am unlikely to have 3.

My husband is in the military and in his friend group we only know 2 childless by choice couples. Most men have 1 if not 2 sets of kids by different women thanks to the damage the many years in war did on their personal lives.

It’s funny how individual the definition of “achievement” is because if you’re in your 30s unmarried and/or married and childless for a reason other than infertility I would define this as a massive life failure. As would most of my “cohort” (all who have good high paying jobs).

Birthing babies is not an "achievement".

It's the most important achievement. Passing on one's genes is the reason for being.

No that's bottom of the barrel with respect to "achievements". Leaving a mark on the world is an achievement.

DP. Raising two really good, kind, responsible people is my mark on the world. It’s the most important thing I personally will ever achieve.

A mark that almost nobody knows about or cares about except you and a handful of friends/family is not an achievement.

It's just a selfish indulgent act. Nobody wants you to have kids except yourself.

This is the dumbest take. We should all want more people to raise good, kind people who will contribute positively to society. If nobody does that, society will collapse. Maybe you don’t care if that happens because you’ll be dead by the time it does—but that view is what’s actually selfish.

But we don't people raise kids to go to Ivy's and then crash the economy shorting stocks or become lawyers who are the dregs of society.

You might think you are raising great kids but you don't really know and there is not guarantee. Plus, the amount of resources kids are using up it's not good for the earth.

You have a very sad view of the world. I'm sorry you apparently only know crappy humans.

I don't know crappy humans. I know humans, we live our lives, then we die. We don't call it an accomplishment to not be a d$ck.

DP but wow this thread. Your kids, if you have them, deserve more than this sad state you are currently in. I wouldn’t get out of bed if my worldview matched yours. Just horrifically sad.